I've realized I have fallen into a rabbit hole trying to fix some of my mistakes and fear that I will end up digging myself into hole I can't get out of if I didn't make this forum post (if i haven't already) there are two tags that I made involved with this rabbit hole, violence focus and gore focus.

here is how the rabbit hole goes: as "gore focus" got bigger, I noticed that a good amount of violence adult content isn't gory yet they were still upsetting users and getting down voted as a result. so I made "violence focus" for violent content that has no visible gore. I then noticed that uploader's didn't seem to know which tag to use for their art, so I re-tagged some art work and rewrote both of their wikis in a failed attempt to clear things up.
In summary, I tried to help out but instead I only made things worse.

A tag for gory and/or violence adult content is needed to help users find or filter out content like this and to reduce the amount of unfair down votes this kind of content often gets, its the same reasons why e621 has a tag for rape.
That said, I clearly lost whatever direction I was originally trying to go with these tags, so it's time for me to step back and let other people takeover, to give fresh ideas on how to tag and manage violence adult content.
I sure it going to be make lot more sense without me making things convoluted.

Maybe invalidate violence_focus and gore_focus entirely in favour of using already existing tags (e.g., imminent_*, sadism/masochism, blood/bruised, etc.)?
IMO, both tags sound misleading when they don't necessarily involve violence or gore at that moment.

Maybe invalidate violence_focus and gore_focus entirely

No point in doing that.

wolfmanfur said:
No point in doing that.

They don't conform with the typical understanding of *_focus tags, which places a special emphasis on the theme featured.
At the very least it needs to be renamed if kept.

thegreatwolfgang said:
They don't conform with the typical understanding of *_focus tags, which places a special emphasis on the theme featured.
At the very least it needs to be renamed if kept.

as long as their is a tag for bloody and/or gory adult content. A fetish this specific and extreme needs it own tag, it just needs to be handle batter then the nonsense I was doing.

It may also be a good idea that whatever tag is get we end up using for this content is on the peoples blacklist by default, it will help with reducing the down votes.

thegreatwolfgang said:
They don't conform with the typical understanding of *_focus tags, which places a special emphasis on the theme featured.
At the very least it needs to be renamed if kept.

Then 3 or 4 years down the line some folk make a bur request to revalidate them becourse they wanna use these tags like other focus tags.

Once again, no point in doing that.

waller said:
as long as their is a tag for bloody and/or gory adult content. A fetish this specific and extreme needs it own tag, it just needs to be handle batter then the nonsense I was doing.

It may also be a good idea that whatever tag is get we end up using for this content is on the peoples blacklist by default, it will help with reducing the down votes.

Maybe alias both to graphic_violence? It could cover posts that have gore, dismemberment, heavy violence, death, etc.
Though it wouldn't be able to blanker cover some "lighter" themes like being inside a blood_pool without any signs of injury.

wolfmanfur said:
Then 3 or 4 years down the line some folk make a bur request to revalidate them becourse they wanna the tags like other focus tags.

Once again, no point in doing that.

I don't think a "definitively-correct" gore_focus or violence_focus would even be necessary.
A post the places a special emphasis on gore/violence? Made the focus apart from what? Wouldn't gore/violence already cover that by themselves?

I said invalidation here because it would be inappropriate at its current state to be aliased straight to gore/violence.

thegreatwolfgang said:
Maybe alias both to graphic_violence? It could cover posts that have gore, dismemberment, heavy violence, death, etc.
Though it wouldn't be able to blanker cover some "lighter" themes like being inside a blood_pool without any signs of injury.

I don't think a "definitively-correct" gore_focus or violence_focus would even be necessary.
A post the places a special emphasis on gore/violence? Made the focus apart from what? Wouldn't gore/violence already cover that by themselves?

I said invalidation here because it would be inappropriate at its current state to be aliased straight to gore/violence.

no, I understand that we need avoid overly specific tags but this case, a specific tag is needed because not all gory or violence content is pornographic. most users are fine with such things as comics, action poses or horror art having gory or violence content but draw the line at pornographic content. e621 needs to give that line a tag, users need to be able to easily filter that line out, and uploaders need it to protect their art \ themselves from down votes and angry and/or insulting comments.

Think of it this way, if we alias rape to sex, what would happen? personally I think the site would start to have issues since not all sex is rape, and uploaders will face the same issues that artists of gory or violence
adult content currently face.

waller said:
no, I understand that we need avoid overly specific tags but this case, a specific tag is needed because not all gory or violence content is pornographic. most users are fine with such things as comics, action poses or horror art having gory or violence content but draw the line at pornographic content. e621 needs to give that line a tag, users need to be able to easily filter that line out, and uploaders need it to protect their art \ themselves from down votes and angry and/or insulting comments.

Think of it this way, if we alias rape to sex, what would happen? personally I think the site would start to have issues since not all sex is rape, and uploaders will face the same issues that artists of gory or violence
adult content currently face.

What about graphic_sexual_violence?

thegreatwolfgang said:
What about graphic_sexual_violence?

That could work but I think we need more opinions before committing to anything.

thegreatwolfgang said:
What about graphic_sexual_violence?

"sexual violence" sounds like it'd include anything from rape to abuse to just S&M.

sipothac said:
"sexual violence" sounds like it'd include anything from rape to abuse to just S&M.

That would be the idea, yeah. But I'm not sure if the graphic_* prefix would be sufficient enough for people to distinguish it between the "typical" kind of sexual violence vs. one that is graphically violent (i.e., includes maiming, bloodshed, etc.).

If it still sounds too much like sexual_violence, then something like graphically_violent_sexual_content could also be used.

thegreatwolfgang said:
What about graphic_sexual_violence?

I want to thank you for understanding why this tag is needed

sipothac said:
"sexual violence" sounds like it'd include anything from rape to abuse to just S&M.

I would agree with that

Sorry, I made a post while editing the previous post after pressing enter button

I think the gore_focus tag with its current definition is confusing.

Gore is emphasized signs of violence. Blood and guts, extruding broken bones, physical damage and torture.

For me, a gore_focus tag would indicate an image that as such was not gore or gory, but it has, for example a depiction of a bleeding wound, and that is brought to focus, for example by the rest of the image being scetchy and black-and-white, but the would and blood drawn in full color and detail. This would be similar to, for example solo_focus, where there are more than one character in the image, but they are all faceless, silhouettes, only visible for a small part.

The current wiki page makes no sense to me, and looking at the assortion of images tagged with this, doesn't help understanding how to use this tag.

urielfrys said:
I think the gore_focus tag with its current definition is confusing.

Gore is emphasized signs of violence. Blood and guts, extruding broken bones, physical damage and torture.

For me, a gore_focus tag would indicate an image that as such was not gore or gory, but it has, for example a depiction of a bleeding wound, and that is brought to focus, for example by the rest of the image being scetchy and black-and-white, but the would and blood drawn in full color and detail. This would be similar to, for example solo_focus, where there are more than one character in the image, but they are all faceless, silhouettes, only visible for a small part.

The current wiki page makes no sense to me, and looking at the assortion of images tagged with this, doesn't help understanding how to use this tag.

It's confusing due to the name and definition not matching. The definition is anything that is gory, but overtly sexual ie sexual violence, which I feel is something snuff already does. The name makes you think this is the gore equivalent of other focus tags.

Gore_focus as a *_focus tag would be useful to highlight posts where gore is the center of the image which ain't always the case, a macro stomping a micro into a bloody puddle would still be gore, but it wouldn't be the focus of the image for example.

urielfrys said:
I think the gore_focus tag with its current definition is confusing.

Gore is emphasized signs of violence. Blood and guts, extruding broken bones, physical damage and torture.

For me, a gore_focus tag would indicate an image that as such was not gore or gory, but it has, for example a depiction of a bleeding wound, and that is brought to focus, for example by the rest of the image being scetchy and black-and-white, but the would and blood drawn in full color and detail. This would be similar to, for example solo_focus, where there are more than one character in the image, but they are all faceless, silhouettes, only visible for a small part.

The current wiki page makes no sense to me, and looking at the assortion of images tagged with this, doesn't help understanding how to use this tag.

This tag is one of my biggest f#ck ups, I saw need for a tag that covers a specific fetish and messed it up.

wolfmanfur said:
which I feel is something snuff already does.

Even fans of snuff will down vote and make less then helpful comments when this kind of content shows up. many are fine with asphyxiation, vore and corpses but draw the line at gore. gory content is vary niche

I think we need to try to define what even counts as gore, keep or replace the name and do a rewrite of the wiki.

what about having an umbrella tag graphic_content so users can automatically blacklist everything

then a scale of sorts that covers the different levels

level 1
immenent / impending doom may be used for when someone is approaching a noose or a guillotine no blood or violence just a terrible uneasy feeling

level 2
fighting, bruises, scrapes, no real blood but more like just red coloring or the shading on the affected areas for in cases of monochrome / non-colored content (asphyxiation: the character is struggling)

level 3
blood, cuts, broken limbs, unconscious bodies (asphyxiation: the character is losing life, brink of death)

level 4
death, dismemberment, gibbing, more certainty (not really 100%, depends on life saving skills) the character is not coming back (asphyxiation: death, motionless, again not 100%)

i'm not sure where sexual stuff may come into this scale or maybe have a separate tag like erotic_gore which may or may not coincide with the umbrella tag and its level scaling.

maybe even look into the tv/movie rating system for better ideas (but would it be the u.s. version or the u.k. version)

but regardless of level they should all have the graphic_content tag or whatever it is you'd like to call it.