The wiki for morbidly_obese makes it very clear what qualifies, and I have the tag blacklisted because I don't want to see "hyper fat".

I want to be able to blacklist stuff like:

post #4416971 post #4549573

Without posts like this ALSO getting caught in my blacklist because people keep spamming a tag that doesn't actually apply:

post #4036093 post #3305506 post #3824695

I honestly wonder if flipping the hyper fat alias would help, because people seem to be mistagging it based on the medical definition of morbidly obese, which isn't the definition used on e621.

nimphia said:
I honestly wonder if flipping the hyper fat alias would help, because people seem to be mistagging it based on the medical definition of morbidly obese, which isn't the definition used on e621.

That would probably be a good idea, having a tag whose definition doesn't line up with its definition in the real world is bad practice (and is likely why its so often mistagged).

pleaseletmein said:
That would probably be a good idea, having a tag whose definition doesn't line up with its definition in the real world is bad practice (and is likely why its so often mistagged).

I do definitely think that's the main factor, but at the same time a lot of the mistags just seem straight up bizarre to me. Like...

post #3784320

...Seriously? I wouldn't even tag this obese, let alone morbidly_obese...

It's so hard to block extreme/comedy/ironic/etc body proportions in general without collateral damage. The voluptuous tag in particular is a trainwreck imo. Tons of posts I wish I could blacklist, but juuuust enough pictures I like that I can't. Someone like me who dislikes it also isn't knowledgeable or objective on it and won't end up tagging it right. But I think the people who like it, they're not leaving it untagged for any deliberate reason, they must just see it as average or something? So the people most invested in wanting it tagged are the people least likely to tag it...

arrow189 said:
It's so hard to block extreme/comedy/ironic/etc body proportions in general without collateral damage. The voluptuous tag in particular is a trainwreck imo. Tons of posts I wish I could blacklist, but juuuust enough pictures I like that I can't. Someone like me who dislikes it also isn't knowledgeable or objective on it and won't end up tagging it right. But I think the people who like it, they're not leaving it untagged for any deliberate reason, they must just see it as average or something? So the people most invested in wanting it tagged are the people least likely to tag it...

I agree, I deal with this a lot with muscular tags too. There's definitely a grey area, but I honestly just don't get why morbidly_obese is the go-to for a lot of images where just obese would suffice. Like, I don't want to see the absurd walls of fat rolls, but I have nothing against a hyper_butt or a character with thick_thighs and a big_belly.

I've been removing the tag some from images where I feel like it's overzealous, and there's a lot of images where I don't feel I can make a judgement call given I'm not like... Into fat kink specifically. But I can at the very least tell something's wrong when these are right next to each other:

post #2118312 post #1896737

It's annoying how essentially useless the chubby/obesity tags are due to constant mistags.

I'd argue it's because many, many people have a skewed idea of what chubby, fat, and obese looks like. Anything wider than "average" is fat to these individuals, even if it's just big thighs and boobs or a slight, almost unnoticeable belly paunch. See post below which was tagged "slightly_chubby" on upload, but is genuinely just a normal, average body.
post #4641953

This view on real-world bodies almost always transfers to fictional characters, which leads to the absolute mess of tags that is the family of fat-related tags. The only way to fix it and keep it fixed is to be diligent about adjusting mistags when you see them, but I'd argue for reversing the hyper_fat/morbidly_obese alias too just to try and mitigate future damage.

I'd also argue for streamlining the fat tags to all be distinctly related to each other - as it stands the scale is slightly_chubby, overweight, obese, and morbidly_obese. Not a single tag on the scale uses the word "fat". This is not only unintuitive, but leaves a lot of implied gap between each stage that makes fat-tagging a lot harder, especially with the ever-important "overweight" which even in the wiki is described as "hard to define".

I'd love for the chubby and fat tags to be usable, but as it stands they are a mess. I hope a better solution can be pitched from everyone working together.

i think it's better off to alias and go with "hyper obese", it will go in hand with other hyper tags for non-medical unrealistic body proportions, as well as leaving less misunderstanding and mistagging.

not to mention, by definition of morbid, it's referring by how deathly, grotesque, and unpleasant it is, which is explicitly both subjective and derogatory. we previously agreed to change everything from pussy to vulva/vagina because it's unpleasant and immature, this one is very transparent and spark the discourse that in any capacity of overweight is unpleasant.

snake-girl said:
i think it's better off to alias and go with "hyper obese", it will go in hand with other hyper tags for non-medical unrealistic body proportions, as well as leaving less misunderstanding and mistagging.

not to mention, by definition of morbid, it's referring by how deathly, grotesque, and unpleasant it is, which is explicitly both subjective and derogatory. we previously agreed to change everything from pussy to vulva/vagina because it's unpleasant and immature, this one is very transparent and spark the discourse that in any capacity of overweight is unpleasant.

I would agree with this as well honestly.

I've also been noticing a recurring pattern of hyper_butts getting the tag, especially if they have cellulite, even if there isn't much else of the character's body visible to go off.

post #4057381 post #4010939 post #3659412

The bulk update request #6968 is pending approval.

remove alias hyper_fat (0) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese (11695) -> overweight (224674)
remove implication morbidly_obese (11695) -> obese (43581)
remove implication morbidly_obese_male (2833) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_female (4733) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_intersex (65) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_ambiguous (439) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_feral (713) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_humanoid (235) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_anthro (6240) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_taur (30) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_human (17) -> morbidly_obese (11695)

Reason: Following above discussion - this is to remove transitives in order to either rename morbidly_obese or alias it and create a new hyber obesity tag to replace it. No followup BUR here until we figure out what to do with it. (Though I'll make a second BUR to deal with the remaining implications of the morbidly_obese_* tags)

The bulk update request #6969 is pending approval.

Reason: Removing the rest of the implications. See above.

Recently (a couple months ago) I rewrote the morbidly obese wiki page because frankly, the "fatness" pages aren't great, and I've been slowly collecting posts that shouldn't be under morbidly_obese in a set to retag them.

The use of a real life medical term definitely isn't helping, and the realistic broad application morbid obesity doesn't make for a useful tag. Maybe changing it to "hyper obese" or making a hyper obese tag could be helpful to stress the extreme level of fatness the tag is intended to cover.

arrow189 said:
The voluptuous tag in particular is a trainwreck imo

Don't get me started on voluptuous, I've regularly gone through and had to remove posts that had either hyper sized everything, or featured skinny characters, not only is it overused by users, but a now defunct implication (topic #33010 good riddance) was a disaster for the tag.

i too once blacklisted these bulbous characters and tried making a tag immobilizing_anatomy but i was pointed out to just use the immobile tag

nimphia said:
The bulk update request #6968 is pending approval.

remove alias hyper_fat (0) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese (11695) -> overweight (224674)
remove implication morbidly_obese (11695) -> obese (43581)
remove implication morbidly_obese_male (2833) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_female (4733) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_intersex (65) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_ambiguous (439) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_feral (713) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_humanoid (235) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_anthro (6240) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_taur (30) -> morbidly_obese (11695)
remove implication morbidly_obese_human (17) -> morbidly_obese (11695)

Reason: Following above discussion - this is to remove transitives in order to either rename morbidly_obese or alias it and create a new hyber obesity tag to replace it. No followup BUR here until we figure out what to do with it. (Though I'll make a second BUR to deal with the remaining implications of the morbidly_obese_* tags)

Bumping this since there seems to be a pretty clear consensus :0