The tag implication #60328 hollow_hip_dress -> meme_clothing is pending approval.

Reason: The dress depicted by this tag is an art trend and should therefore imply the meme clothing tag, as mentioned in topic #42972

It feels weird to call it "meme" clothing when it's just a nice dress. I'm sure we've got at least a few older posts that should be tagged with it

I don't like calling something a meme just because it's a small trend. It should have some value beyond being what it is, IMO. It's like calling a hoodie meme clothing because a lot of characters are drawn wearing one.

watsit said:
I don't like calling something a meme just because it's a small trend. It should have some value beyond being what it is, IMO. It's like calling a hoodie meme clothing because a lot of characters are drawn wearing one.

Boyfriends hoodie might be a meme

fliphook said:
Boyfriends hoodie might be a meme

I- I don't think we... I mean, it definitely wouldn't be meme_clothing. but also just like, is that a meme? are we just going to tag the entire concept of borrowing/stealing your partner's clothes as meme? how broad are we gonna make this tag?

_{ugh... we should really should deal with this stupid tag at some point, but... I just really don't want to have to make a BUR that deals with all ~300 implying tags.}

sipothac said:
I- I don't think we... I mean, it definitely wouldn't be meme_clothing. but also just like, is that a meme? are we just going to tag the entire concept of borrowing/stealing your partner's clothes as meme? how broad are we gonna make this tag?

_{ugh... we should really should deal with this stupid tag at some point, but... I just really don't want to have to make a BUR that deals with all ~300 implying tags.}

It might get worse

Lovers clothes

More unisex and covers all "borrowed" clothing

strikerman said:
It feels weird to call it "meme" clothing when it's just a nice dress. I'm sure we've got at least a few older posts that should be tagged with it

Some could say that a Virgin Killer Sweater is just a nice sweater with a unique design. This specific dress also fits that kind of criteria. It's a distinctive design that people have been drawing a LOT recently, therefore making it somewhat of a meme.

watsit said:
I don't like calling something a meme just because it's a small trend. It should have some value beyond being what it is, IMO. It's like calling a hoodie meme clothing because a lot of characters are drawn wearing one.

Hoodie is a very broad term that could cover so many different styles, colors, and designs of a jacket. The hollow hip dress, on the other hand, is a VERY unique design that has little, if any room for variation.

atomicblaze21 said:
Some could say that a Virgin Killer Sweater is just a nice sweater with a unique design. This specific dress also fits that kind of criteria. It's a distinctive design that people have been drawing a LOT recently, therefore making it somewhat of a meme.

Hoodie is a very broad term that could cover so many different styles, colors, and designs of a jacket. The hollow hip dress, on the other hand, is a VERY unique design that has little, if any room for variation.

Just found this trend being called "Modakawa Backless Chain Dress" in Know Your Meme site as a redraw art trend, so i think it has gained enough popularity to fit the criteria. Either that or we shall wait for it to be a bigger trend?

No, people actually wear that in real life and did before Twitter liked it. Drawing characters wearing it is a meme, the article of clothing itself isn't

atomicblaze21 said:
Some could say that a Virgin Killer Sweater is just a nice sweater with a unique design. This specific dress also fits that kind of criteria. It's a distinctive design that people have been drawing a LOT recently, therefore making it somewhat of a meme.

we can't just call something a meme because it gets drawn a lot. you know what else gets drawn a lot? My Little Pony porn. this is my problem with the meme tags in general.

there needs to be something more, some intent behind it, or just some kind of je ne sais quoi before we consider something a meme. with _{most of} the other meme clothing like the VK either the design is inherently, intentionally absurd or there's just something else about it that means that it's not something any sane person would ever wear in public.

trend ≠ meme

sipothac said:
we can't just call something a meme because it gets drawn a lot. you know what else gets drawn a lot? My Little Pony porn. this is my problem with the meme tags in general.

there needs to be something more, some intent behind it, or just some kind of je ne sais quoi before we consider something a meme. with _{most of} the other meme clothing like the VK either the design is inherently, intentionally absurd or there's just something else about it that means that it's not something any sane person would ever wear in public.

But it fits under the definition of "meme clothing" as described by the wiki article, namely due to the "interesting or bizarre design" criteria. The same dress is in all of these pictures, it's clearly a very focused trend and therefore a "meme". The tag doesn't necessitate absurdity or humor, it necessitates a trend.

burnedpotato said:
Just found this trend being called "Modakawa Backless Chain Dress" in Know Your Meme site as a redraw art trend, so i think it has gained enough popularity to fit the criteria. Either that or we shall wait for it to be a bigger trend?

The tag hollow_hip_dress already has more posts than several tags that already imply meme_clothing, so I'd say it's a large enough trend at this point. As for the name, I'll make a note of that particular Know Your Meme article on topic #42972 in regards to naming.

atomicblaze21 said:
But it fits under the definition of "meme clothing" as described by the wiki article, namely due to the "interesting or bizarre design" criteria. The same dress is in all of these pictures, it's clearly a very focused trend and therefore a "meme". The tag doesn't necessitate absurdity or humor, it necessitates a trend.

the VK is bizarre because it's a sweater, that covers almost nothing, it is self-contradictory.

by comparison, hips cutouts really do not seem that bizarre or interesting of a design choice, not even in the same ballpark. it's just the exact same as any of the other mountain of cutout types that have already existed for ages.

sipothac said:
the VK is bizarre because it's a sweater, that covers almost nothing, it is self-contradictory.

by comparison, hips cutouts really do not seem that bizarre or interesting of a design choice, not even in the same ballpark. it's just the exact same as any of the other mountain of cutout types that have already existed for ages.

Okay, I think I see your point. I think the issue stems from the fact that "hollow hip dress" is too vague, but it was the first thing that people came up with to describe the trend. I think we can come to a middle ground here. What if there was a tag specifically for the trend design (such as modakawa_chain_dress, further discussion in topic #42972) that would implicate both meme_clothing and hollow_hip_dress, as well as any other pertinent tags? That way, any other dresses outside of this trend that may have a hip cutout wouldn't erroneously imply meme_clothing.

All in all, there has definitely been a trend that's very specifically centered around this exact dress. Unless we want to reconsider the whole ontology of what something needs to do to qualify as "meme clothing", it should count.

atomicblaze21 said:
All in all, there has definitely been a trend that's very specifically centered around this exact dress. Unless we want to reconsider the whole ontology of what something needs to do to qualify as "meme clothing", it should count.

I do think meme clothing should encompass more than simply a piece of clothing being a trend. Females wearing dresses is a trend. Hoodies are a trend. Beanies are a trend. The dress doesn't look all that remarkable beyond looking pretty (which is the general point of dresses), simply being drawn a number of times shouldn't be all that's required to count as a "meme", otherwise a whole lot of things would count as one.

watsit said:
I do think meme clothing should encompass more than simply a piece of clothing being a trend. Females wearing dresses is a trend. Hoodies are a trend. Beanies are a trend. The dress doesn't look all that remarkable beyond looking pretty (which is the general point of dresses), simply being drawn a number of times shouldn't be all that's required to count as a "meme", otherwise a whole lot of things would count as one.

I think atomic meant more flash-in-the-pan trends

strikerman said:
I think atomic meant more flash-in-the-pan trends

I see. In that case, I'd say that's even less worth implying as a meme. Another term for a "flash-in-the-pan trend" is a fad. It's difficult to know when a fad is a fad while it's still trending. Some people thought pokemon was a fad, that it would die out after a few years, and now look at it. We won't know if it's a flash in the pan until after it dies out, at which point it's kind of pointless to worry about. Worse, since it is an actual kind of dress that existed before the trend and will continue to exist afterward, forever calling it a "meme" afterward because it was a small fad at one point seems rather unfair to it.

The bulk update request #7696 is pending approval.

create implication hollow_hip_backless_chain_dress (224) -> hollow_hip_dress (0)
create implication hollow_hip_backless_chain_dress (224) -> chain_dress (0)
create implication hollow_hip_backless_chain_dress (224) -> backless_dress (1222)

Reason: not any old hollow hip dress is going to be applicable for this meme and not any old chain dress is going to be applicable as well

there has already been some dispute over how this dress should be tagged

Essentially, hollow_hip_backless_chain_dress has been created as a copyright tag for the meme. Unfortunately, it needs to be tightened up to refer to only that one particular dress, but it's being slapped on just about any dress with chains and/or hollow hips regardless of style. Obviously, the copyright tag is going to need a cleanup, but the current mess is highlighting the fact that not all hollow hip dresses or chain dresses are hollow hip backless chain dresses, but all hollow hip backless chain dresses are hollow hip dresses or chain dresses. At the very least, this brings the issue to the attention of a wider audience.

Someone's clearly thought that dress has ascended to meme status and whether you agree with that or not, I'd argue that this particular dress has become depicted enough times that it's worth separating out from any other hollow hip, backless, or chain dresses. Yes, there could easily be other hollow hip backless chain dresses as well, but this tag separates out this particular one from them.

We don't have chain_dress tagged on anything at the moment, but that's because nobody's thought to do so yet. I imagine the hollow_hip_backless_chain_dress might inspire other chain dresses to be drawn and uploaded.
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Things to note:

Right now, the BUR's just using current, established tags (not counting chain_dress).

The opening request needs to be rejected since the scheme proposed here is to use hollow_hip_dress for these dresses in general.

This is a duplicate of the first line in the BUR and should be rejected. —> https://e621.net/tag_implications/61376 <— I say that because it's attached to a deleted forum post, and that's a no-no.

This line ought to be added to the BUR due to it having been forgotten about in the original Discord discussion:

imply hollow_hip_backless_chain_dress -> backless_dress

Fliphook's BUR got edited.

mexi_co said:
Fliphook's BUR got edited.

yes I did update the BUR.
but I just noticed it says 'duplicate implication' should I edit that out or leave it as is

fliphook said:
yes I did update the BUR.
but I just noticed it says 'duplicate implication' should I edit that out or leave it as is

That's because this other implication had been made before yours. You're at no fault because at the time you made your BUR, the forum thread had been hidden, which is a big no-no for AIBURs. You couldn't have known it existed.

In a sense, it's support for your BUR, though, as it indicates someone else had the same idea. If you'd like, you can remove the duplicate line from your BUR which would let the AIBUR Admin simply approve both requests and be done with their day.

clawstripe said:
That's because this other implication had been made before yours. You're at no fault because at the time you made your BUR, the forum thread had been hidden, which is a big no-no for AIBURs. You couldn't have known it existed.

Well hidden/staff AIBURs can be seen through Metasearch and BUR search (or by the duplicates warning feature). But regardless, @Fliphook is not at fault because there's no fault to be had in any of these situations

snpthecat said:
Well hidden/staff AIBURs can be seen through Metasearch and BUR search (or by the duplicates warning feature). But regardless, @Fliphook is not at fault because there's no fault to be had in any of these situations

Exactly. And most Users would not think of or know about the various search options anyway. Plus, duplicate AIBURs pop up all the time; there's nothing wrong with making one. The only problem here is that the other thread got hidden with an active AIBUR in it.

For those interested, Fliphook's BUR is updated, with the implication to meme_clothing removed. That's taken care of over in this thread now that it's visible.

Regardless of whether you agree that this dress has trended enough to count as meme clothing, the hollow_hip_backless_chain_dress will always be a hollow_hip_dress, a backless_dress, and a chain_dress. The current version of the BUR would allow that to go through and leave the meme_clothing implication for separate consideration.

Just as backless_dress covers more types of dresses than just the hollow hip backless chain dress, so is chain_dress and hollow_hip_dress being proposed here to cover chain dresses and hollow hip dresses in general as, now that the hollow hip backless chain dress has become popular, there's sure to be other hollow hip and chain dresses posted here. Indeed, Modakawa also sells at "least one other hollow hip dress" which could conceivably be drawn on a character, and there have been a number of other chain dresses posted to e621 already.

chain_dress sounds like a dress made out of chains (ala chainmail), rather than a dress adorned with a few chains.

watsit said:
chain_dress sounds like a dress made out of chains (ala chainmail), rather than a dress adorned with a few chains.

I know, but I'm not the one who came up with the term. :p

clawstripe said:
That's because this other implication had been made before yours. You're at no fault because at the time you made your BUR, the forum thread had been hidden, which is a big no-no for AIBURs. You couldn't have known it existed.

In a sense, it's support for your BUR, though, as it indicates someone else had the same idea. If you'd like, you can remove the duplicate line from your BUR which would let the AIBUR Admin simply approve both requests and be done with their day.

He removed -> meme_clothing part.

mexi_co said:
He removed -> meme_clothing part.

Yes, I know. ;p

clawstripe said:
For those interested, Fliphook's BUR is updated, with the implication to meme_clothing removed. That's taken care of over in this thread now that it's visible.

_________

watsit said:
chain_dress sounds like a dress made out of chains (ala chainmail), rather than a dress adorned with a few chains.

A minor thought, since chain_dress hasn't been populated yet, do you think chained_dress might work better?

clawstripe said:
Yes, I know. ;p
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A minor thought, since chain_dress hasn't been populated yet, do you think chained_dress might work better?

Sorry. I usually miss a lot of things.

Comparing tags between chained_* and chain_*, it's exactly what watsit says.
chained_* sounds much better.
In future if a dress made of chain appears too, chained_* will cause less confusion.

clawstripe said:
A minor thought, since chain_dress hasn't been populated yet, do you think chained_dress might work better?

mexi_co said:
Comparing tags between chained_* and chain_*, it's exactly what watsit says.
chained_* sounds much better.
In future if a dress made of chain appears too, chained_* will cause less confusion.