Topic: Character disambiguations after same name/owner/copyright/species?

Posted under Tag/Wiki Projects and Questions

For the tag sticklers, I was wondering what the valid options are for this situation:

I have two different characters named "Celierra" (long story). I've started getting more art of the second of them, which is starting to turn the tag celierra ambiguous. Both characters are "current", same owner and species (fox), but red vs. arctic fox. They have different designs and background from each other. howto:tag characters doesn't really provide a case for this, I think.

Do I just leave it ambiguous?
- It's simplest, but relying upon red_fox or arctic_fox for search doesn't work well, as it's fairly common to see arctic fox Celierra with red fox males.

celierra_the_daemon for the red fox, leaving celierra for the arctic fox with more art
- This is how she's disambiguated in descriptions by myself and artists, and I'd prefer this the most, but I don't know if that has weight like it's "official".
- Could be confusing that (by twys) her art wouldn't qualify to be tagged daemon_(his_dark_materials)

celierra_the_red_fox, celierra_the_arctic_fox
- This is the most obvious difference for twys but isn't technically a "species" disambiguation....but might still follow the spirit of the wiki I guess?
- I worry this would make posts harder to find for people expecting her more popular form to still be just celierra
- The wiki page is worded a little oddly, but I took it as meaning that "Celierra the red fox" is preferred over "Celierra_(red fox)".

Just to be clear, I'm not really looking to create some sitewide precedent or definition; but I'd like to avoid anything particularly wrong which might create more work for myself or others. I'm planning to upload a backlog, so it's easier to settle on something now rather than later.

Updated

Do either have full names? If so, use that. Otherwise the best option out of the ones you've suggested is daemon.

lurkingfox said:
For the tag sticklers, I was wondering what the valid options are for this situation:

I have two different characters named "Celierra" (long story). I've started getting more art of the second of them, which is starting to turn the tag celierra ambiguous. Both characters are "current", same owner and species (fox), but red vs. arctic fox. They have different designs and background from each other. howto:tag characters doesn't really provide a case for this, I think.

First of all, let us establish whether or not Celierra is a unique character name and that it is not shared with other character owners.

If it is a common/shared name that other people also use, then celierra should be disambiguated and be aliased into celierra_(disambiguation).
If it is a unique name that only you use for your characters, then you can continue reading below.

Do I just leave it ambiguous?
- It's simplest, but relying upon red_fox or arctic_fox for search doesn't work well, as it's fairly common to see arctic fox Celierra with red fox males.

No, ideally each unique character should have a character tag of their own. Leaving it ambiguous is just lazy tagging.
I mentioned "unique" here in the sense that they are both different characters, with different backgrounds and no relation to one another.*
* There is a rare exception to this rule for popular characters (e.g., link_(wolf_form)), but it is ignored for the sake of this current discussion.

If in the case, they are the same character but are just depicted in a different colour scheme or species (i.e., alternate_species), then it is fine to have them both be tagged as celierra and disambiguation is not really necessary (unless their forms change dramatically).
If they are both different characters that are coincidentally sharing the same name, then you can continue reading below.

celierra_the_daemon for the red fox, leaving celierra for the arctic fox with more art
- This is how she's disambiguated in descriptions by myself and artists, and I'd prefer this the most, but I don't know if that has weight like it's "official".
- Could be confusing that (by twys) her art wouldn't qualify to be tagged daemon_(his_dark_materials)

Not the right move. You have to remember that tagging is not only for you, but also for others to use.
Other users may simply just use celierra for both characters as that is how the characters are named in the description.

The artist who designed the character is irrelevant and should never be included in the character tag.*
* Exceptions exist for 3D modellers.

celierra_the_red_fox, celierra_the_arctic_fox
- This is the most obvious difference for twys but isn't technically a "species" disambiguation....but might still follow the spirit of the wiki I guess?
- I worry this would make posts harder to find for people expecting her more popular form to still be just celierra
- The wiki page is worded a little oddly, but I took it as meaning that "Celierra the red fox" is preferred over "Celierra_(red fox)".

Typically, we do not encourage attaching character tags with their species as they may appear as alternate_species or as in cosplay (e.g., dinosaur dressed as a fox).*
* Exceptions exist for popular characters (e.g., sonic_the_hedgehog).

However, in this case, this option can be considered if all other alternative options are not viable.
Naming character tags, by order of preference:

  • Just their first names, if unique (i.e., celierra).
  • Include their character owner/copyright's name, if shared with others (e.g., celierra_(lurkingfox)).
  • Include their last names, if any (e.g., celierra_vulpes or celierra_lagopus).
  • Include their species (e.g., celierra_the_red_fox or celierra_(red_fox)).

It seems like celierra_the_red_fox and celierra_the_arctic_fox is where this is heading, if I understood everything correctly.

To answer some things directly:

  • Nobody else has used the name Celierra, as far as I know
  • Neither character has last names yet (and they're unlikely to get them)
  • As an aside on "full names", there are some dæmonism-specific naming jargons (she'd be celierra_of_darvian), but not well known or well settled even in that community. (I could consider adopting celierra_the_daemon as a full name, but it's a stretch.) I think TheGreatWolfgang has the point with taggers not being reasonably expected to think of either of those.

with different backgrounds and no relation to one another

Hmm, there's a bit of relation in that one is (sometimes) talked about as a roleplay character used by the other, and an outside observer might see similarities consistent with that. But it sounds like that's too tenuous - they don't share any other background, and it's more than just an alternate (sub)-species or form difference.

  • Include their last names, if any (e.g., celierra_vulpes or celierra_lagopus).
  • Include their species (e.g., celierra_the_red_fox or celierra_(red_fox)).

In these latter cases, since it seems like there wouldn't be the disambiguation aliasing, does anything special happen with celierra? Should images get tagged with both celierra and a specific tag (like to be backwards compatible), or do we try to limit use to just the newer, more specific ones?

lurkingfox said:

In these latter cases, since it seems like there wouldn't be the disambiguation aliasing, does anything special happen with celierra? Should images get tagged with both celierra and a specific tag (like to be backwards compatible), or do we try to limit use to just the newer, more specific ones?

If celierra gets split into two other tags, then it shouldn't be tagged alongside those other tags.

lurkingfox said:
Hmm, there's a bit of relation in that one is (sometimes) talked about as a roleplay character used by the other, and an outside observer might see similarities consistent with that. But it sounds like that's too tenuous - they don't share any other background, and it's more than just an alternate (sub)-species or form difference.

It doesn't matter how they are used or referred to in lore/roleplay, what's important is that they are either the same character or not related whatsoever.

For example, Gandalf from the LOTR was called "Gandalf the Grey" in the beginning and had an overall grey appearance, but in the end, he became to be known as "Gandalf the White" and had an overall white appearance.
In this case, we don't keep separate character tags as they are both still the same character albeit in a different colour scheme (or even a different species).

In these latter cases, since it seems like there wouldn't be the disambiguation aliasing, does anything special happen with celierra? Should images get tagged with both celierra and a specific tag (like to be backwards compatible), or do we try to limit use to just the newer, more specific ones?

The celierra tag will be discontinued and abandoned, unless circumstances permit that it be disambiguated since other people are also using the name.

As far as tagging is concerned, you either tag celierra_the_red_fox or celierra_the_arctic_fox. You don't need an umbrella tag to tie them together.
If you want to clarify to others about how the two are different, you may do so in the wiki for those character tags.

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