The tag alias #71618 tailbutt -> wide_crotch has been rejected.

Reason: Tailbutt project discussion https://e621.net/forum_topics/42705

rather unintuitive tag as is referenced on multiple occasions in the discussion and potentially prone to being mistagged to characters with distinctive humanoid butts by anyone not formally part of the project. Both serve the same purpose with the sole difference being that tailbutt is intended to specifically also exclude humanoid glutes..

EDIT: The tag alias tailbutt -> wide_crotch (forum #410743) has been rejected by @slyroon.

While I agree that a better name is definitely needed, tailbutt isn't just wide_crotch.
The project taggers intended for it to include posts with "thin crotch" as well (e.g., post #4359764).

thegreatwolfgang said:
While I agree that a better name is definitely needed, tailbutt isn't just wide_crotch.
The project taggers intended for it to include posts with "thin crotch" as well (e.g., post #4359764).

I would argue that isnt the case, for the features they are looking for a minimum amount of spacing is necessary per all the criteria specified on the wiki and discussion.
The feature they are looking for cannot be distinguished on thin crotches nor is the example you gave a thin crotch.

While these do seem analogous in most cases, tailbutt also implies the existence of a tail, while wide_crotch could apply to tailless characters that may otherwise have a regular humanoid butt.
- Is this a problem? Should we care?
- Would an implication be better than an alias?

spe said:
While these do seem analogous in most cases, tailbutt also implies the existence of a tail, while wide_crotch could apply to tailless characters that may otherwise have a regular humanoid butt.
- Is this a problem? Should we care?
- Would an implication be better than an alias?

Wide_crotch has always implied a tail as well. Part of the tag definition requires the existence of a tail.. A implication I don't believe would be a problem but the differences seem rather insignificant to justify a implication. My understanding of the tailbutt wiki has been that they simply differed on wether or not said character had a butt in addition to the 'smooth wide crotch & tail' both tags cover

ryu_deacon said:
Wide_crotch has always implied a tail as well. Part of the tag definition requires the existence of a tail.. A implication I don't believe would be a problem but the differences seem rather insignificant to justify a implication. My understanding of the tailbutt wiki has been that they simply differed on wether or not said character had a butt in addition to the 'smooth wide crotch & tail' both tags cover

Wide crotch requiring a tail doesn’t make much sense with the tag name, though. It might be in the wiki but it’s not an intuitive restriction. People will inevitably use it on tailless characters with wide crotches if the tag gains traction.

spe said:
Wide crotch requiring a tail doesn’t make much sense with the tag name, though.

Neither does tailbutt requiring a smooth crotch-to-tail underside. wide_crotch at least puts the "crotch" in the tag name, which is the main focus of the anatomy that necessarily results in a crotch that's at least a little wide, compared to tailbutt which doesn't really have anything to do with butts (characters with such a feature may or may not have a butt still) and sounds too close to tail_anus. Maybe something like smooth_crotch-tailwould be more descriptive, but tailbutt is probably one of the poorer words/terms for indicating what it means.

spe said:
Wide crotch requiring a tail doesn’t make much sense with the tag name, though. It might be in the wiki but it’s not an intuitive restriction. People will inevitably use it on tailless characters with wide crotches if the tag gains traction.

by that same logic you are using here tailbutt has 'butt' in the tag yet strong efforts not once but multiple times in the wiki are made to try and say that it is not to have a butt in it yet from a cursory glance they still get posts in it that do appear to still have butts on the characters the tag is intended to reference.

I hold the opinion that it is harder to overcome intuitive usage of a tag by subtracting a intuitive aspect of the term used for the tag than adding on a condition that does not go against the intuitive understanding.

watsit said:
Neither does tailbutt requiring a smooth crotch-to-tail underside. wide_crotch at least puts the "crotch" in the tag name, which is the main focus of the anatomy that necessarily results in a crotch that's at least a little wide, compared to tailbutt which doesn't really have anything to do with butts (characters with such a feature may or may not have a butt still) and sounds too close to tail_anus. Maybe something like smooth_crotch-tailwould be more descriptive, but tailbutt is probably one of the poorer words/terms for indicating what it means.

ryu_deacon said:
by that same logic you are using here tailbutt has 'butt' in the tag yet strong efforts not once but multiple times in the wiki are made to try and say that it is not to have a butt in it yet from a cursory glance they still get posts in it that do appear to still have butts on the characters the tag is intended to reference.

I hold the opinion that it is harder to overcome intuitive usage of a tag by subtracting a intuitive aspect of the term used for the tag than adding on a condition that does not go against the intuitive understanding.

I’m not implying that tailbutt is a good alternative. That’s the problem here: both names are pretty bad. I think we’ll probably just need find something better than either of these.

spe said:
I’m not implying that tailbutt is a good alternative. That’s the problem here: both names are pretty bad. I think we’ll probably just need find something better than either of these.

You should refer to topic #42705 to understand the nuances of the tag and the latest discussions as to the potential replacement name (which has failed to find any good alternatives so far).

thegreatwolfgang said:
You should refer to topic #42705 to understand the nuances of the tag and the latest discussions as to the potential replacement name (which has failed to find any good alternatives so far).

I think it's less "failed to find any good alternatives" and more "no one could agree on any name being good". Every name has its detractors, while plenty of decent names have been proposed, but tailbutt is what people keep tagging while discussions are deadlocked on what term to use.

The tag alias tailbutt -> wide_crotch (forum #410743) has been rejected by @slyroon.