A lightsaber is a type of sword.
An inactive lightsaber is still a weapon much like how a gun is still a weapon even if it's not actively shooting people.

Are inactive lightsabers also swords? I suppose not but I still wanted to raise the question.
post #169597
post #115788

Are double-bladed_lightsabers also swords or their own thing? I would be inclined to say yes to both.
post #193274
post #127038

Are these lightsabers? Is this what someone searching for "lightsaber" wants to see? They could be left tagged lightsaber and then also tagged with their actual weapon type.
post #404789 A trident-type weapon
post #416235 A glaive-type weapon
post #193751

Related:
https://e621.net/tag_implication?query=lightsaber
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber

Lightsabers aren't swords.
Swords are bladed weapons.
Lightsabers cut with energy.
Lightsabers are no more swords than a cutting laser is a knife.

I think they should be tagged based on what they actually look like. Doesn't matter if it's made of steel, glass or energy; a sword is a sword.

This is how I'd tag them:
Normal lightsabers - sword, weapon.
Inactive lightsabers - weapon.
Double-bladed_lightsabers - These look like quarterstaves to me. So polearm and weapon.
post #404789 - trident, weapon.
post #416235 - polearm, weapon.
post #193751 - ...resembles a bow, but obviously isn't one. How about just weapon?

And maybe a new umbrella tag for energy_weapons, though I don't think it's actually needed.

Halite said:
Lightsabers aren't swords.
Swords are bladed weapons.
Lightsabers cut with energy.
Lightsabers are no more swords than a cutting laser is a knife.

This.

Basic lightsabers are related to swords, in that they share the same basic design (hilt, blade) and usage (hold the hilt, have the blade go into people/things you want to cut) but aside from those very simple common concepts are quite different. Further, you can have lightsaber variants of other weapons, not just swords. There are canon examples with the lightsaber pike, the lightsaber shoto (tonfa), lightclub (large lightsabers that projected a wide mass of plasma; they looked more like a lightsaber version of the Tauren war totem than anything else), and the lightwhip.

Now, if you were to argue about phrik or cortosis blades being swords, I'd agree, since those are tangible and meet all the same criteria as a sword. But a Lightsaber is a weapon class unto itself.

A lightsaber is a sword within the canon of Star Wars. The name "Lightsaber" is explicitly intended to invoke thoughts of bladed weapons. It is defined using terms like 'blade' and 'hilt' in official works. The only difference between a steel sword and a lightsaber is the material of the blade.

That aside, we're more interested in tagging things based on what we see. They certainly appear to be swords and to argue otherwise is to say that someone searching for "sword" does not want to be presented with lightsabers.

I think lightsabers should be tagged : weapon melee_weapon energy_weapon energy_blade.
if you can see a sharp edge, tangible or not I believe the sword tag would be in order.

A lightsaber looks more like a "baton": http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baton_(law_enforcement) than a sword.
As for the material of the blade, there is none, it has no mass, no matter, no material.
It doesn't even look, or act like a blades, aside from the fact that it can cut.
And if "it can cut" is sufficient to call it a blade, then we are seriously undertagging blades.

Azazial said:
A lightsaber is a sword within the canon of Star Wars.

Nope, Star Wars canon has actual swords that are the swords of Star Wars canon.
They also have vibro-swords.

Batons are far smaller than how Lightsabers are typically depicted. At no point did I assert that Lightsabers are the only form of sword in Star Wars. I even linked source material saying as much.

If it is designed to cut then it probably ought to be tagged with blade, yes. A picket knife or a meat cleaver are designed to cut. A bag of broken glass or a bottle cap or a fan blade are certainly able to cut, but we don't tag them as such because then we're going down a path of insanity where you'd need to tag cars as maces and submarines as clubs because the Hulk or Superman could use them as such.

The primary components of a sword consist of a blade and a hilt. Obviously, all examples of swords that we have in reality are mostly based on pounded metal which is sharpened to an edge, but plasma or magical energy or whatever else that is of a fixed size and intended to be used in a sword-like manner is a sword. A Bokken is a sword even though it's made of wood. A Shinai is a sword.

Even in official source material Lightsabers are referred to with sword terminology. The first Lightsaber is literally called The First Blade.

The Birth of the Lightsaber states:
in early drafts of the script, lightsabers were referred to as "lazerswords."

Azazial said:
A lightsaber is a type of sword.
An inactive lightsaber is still a weapon much like how a gun is still a weapon even if it's not actively shooting people.

Are inactive lightsabers also swords? I suppose not but I still wanted to raise the question.

Is a sword in sheaf also a sword? Answer: Yes. So an inactive lightsaber is still a lightsaber.

Azazial said:
Batons are far smaller than how Lightsabers are typically depicted. At no point did I assert that Lightsabers are the only form of sword in Star Wars. I even linked source material saying as much.

If it is designed to cut then it probably ought to be tagged with blade, yes. A picket knife or a meat cleaver are designed to cut. A bag of broken glass or a bottle cap or a fan blade are certainly able to cut, but we don't tag them as such because then we're going down a path of insanity where you'd need to tag cars as maces and submarines as clubs because the Hulk or Superman could use them as such.

The primary components of a sword consist of a blade and a hilt. Obviously, all examples of swords that we have in reality are mostly based on pounded metal which is sharpened to an edge, but plasma or magical energy or whatever else that is of a fixed size and intended to be used in a sword-like manner is a sword. A Bokken is a sword even though it's made of wood. A Shinai is a sword.

Even in official source material Lightsabers are referred to with sword terminology. The first Lightsaber is literally called The First Blade.

So, a cutting laser, which is designed to cut, is a blade?

The "lazersword" name isn't canon, it's behind the scenes material on a dvd.
Nor is "the first blade" canon.
It was first introduced as a class quest in 2011 for swtor, the MMO.
Games are not considered true canon for Star Wars.

Azazial said:
They certainly appear to be swords and to argue otherwise is to say that someone searching for "sword" does not want to be presented with lightsabers.

I would be surprised to see lightsabers when searching for "sword". It wouldn't be a big deal, but if I wanted lightsabers I'd be searching for lightsabers.

Halite said:
So, a cutting laser, which is designed to cut, is a blade?

The "lazersword" name isn't canon, it's behind the scenes material on a dvd.
Nor is "the first blade" canon.
It was first introduced as a class quest in 2011 for swtor, the MMO.
Games are not considered true canon for Star Wars.

Actually, the games are considered true canon, they just are C Canon not G Canon. That only applies for the story and documentation, both manuals and cutscenes and the like within the game; game mechanics and stats and that sort of thing are not canon. Any game which replays scenes shown in a movie are replaced by the movie upon which it is based in canon (in other words, playing through a scene and having it turn out separate from already established canon doesn't count against canon, because you're taking liberties with the story with gameplay there). Any customizable character is canonically male, any choice between endings is canonically Light Side, etc. etc. Here's a link to the canon page for more info. http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon

yes, it's convoluted as crap. But there you have it. :P

ANYWAYS.

Azazial said:
Batons are far smaller than how Lightsabers are typically depicted. At no point did I assert that Lightsabers are the only form of sword in Star Wars. I even linked source material saying as much.

If it is designed to cut then it probably ought to be tagged with blade, yes. A picket knife or a meat cleaver are designed to cut. A bag of broken glass or a bottle cap or a fan blade are certainly able to cut, but we don't tag them as such because then we're going down a path of insanity where you'd need to tag cars as maces and submarines as clubs because the Hulk or Superman could use them as such.

The primary components of a sword consist of a blade and a hilt. Obviously, all examples of swords that we have in reality are mostly based on pounded metal which is sharpened to an edge, but plasma or magical energy or whatever else that is of a fixed size and intended to be used in a sword-like manner is a sword. A Bokken is a sword even though it's made of wood. A Shinai is a sword.

Even in official source material Lightsabers are referred to with sword terminology. The first Lightsaber is literally called The First Blade.

Regarding batons: Lightsaber Shoto. It's a tonfa with a lightsaber bar instead of a physical one.

The problem with calling a lightsaber a sword is that it lacks even the basic factors that make a sword a sword beyond having something termed a blade and a hilt. Further, the blade isn't a true blade, it's a U-shaped containment field that contains a loop of plasma; It doesn't cut things, it vaporizes them. While it superficially/visually resembles a cut, in that it divides one object into two, it doesn't in fact cut.

Your example of Bokken as being the name for wooden swords is accurate, as it is a length of polished wood that has an edge and can in fact be used to cut, though as the edge is wooden the material must be suitably soft; In fact there are wooden knives meant for cutting open letters or used in cutting meats or soft vegetables or butter or other relatively soft foods. Most bokken are nowadays produced with heavily blunted edges, however, but the same can be said of regular swords.

The Shinai-take ("Flexible Bamboo"), as they were originally known, are in fact NOT swords. They *are* weapons made from bamboo that are meant to substitute for a sword, but they are not themselves swords.

The problem for me is that there's numerous lightsaber-type weapons in various games, and more often than not they're called laser (or light) swords. Same goes for toys.

I find it hard not to call them swords, because of that.

Halite said:
So, a cutting laser, which is designed to cut, is a blade?

If it was contained in a magic field such that the only difference in function between it and a metal blade is the material the blade is constructed of then I would say yes, it is a blade.

So to boil things back down again, we've basically reached a stalemate over being able to define a sword due to disagreements based on the precise functioning of the cutting edge.

The technical details of slicing via pressure vs vaporization by plasma as an argument for what defines a sword do not really fall under TWYS though. I see what looks like a laser sword. Y'all apparently do not see a sword or sword-like object so I will leave it up to you to define what, if any, additional tags a lightsaber ought to have since it's 2 to 1 in your favor.

Azazial said:
If it was contained in a magic field such that the only difference in function between it and a metal blade is the material the blade is constructed of then I would say yes, it is a blade.

So to boil things back down again, we've basically reached a stalemate over being able to define a sword due to disagreements based on the precise functioning of the cutting edge.

The technical details of slicing via pressure vs vaporization by plasma as an argument for what defines a sword do not really fall under TWYS though. I see what looks like a laser sword. Y'all apparently do not see a sword or sword-like object so I will leave it up to you to define what, if any, additional tags a lightsaber ought to have since it's 2 to 1 in your favor.

I see what looks like a rod of light, not a blade. It's called a blade out of ease of terminology. Which sounds better: blade, or "curved plasma containment field made out of Force energy"? :P

Further, the definition of a sword is, "A weapon consisting typically of a long, straight or slightly curved, pointed blade having one or two cutting edges and set into a hilt." or, alternatively, "A thrusting, striking, or cutting weapon with a long blade having one or two cutting edges, a hilt, and usually a crosspiece or guard."

The very fact that a lightsaber is omnidirectional in its cutting surface alone precludes calling it a proper sword. Lacking an edge is precisely the issue here. Now, that ONE lightsaber that has the containment field formed so the blade does materialize in the shape of a sword with a proper edge? That's a lightsaber sword, and should be tagged as such. Other lightsabers? Just lightsabers, unless they're a non-standard format based on another weapon.

Can't Lightsabers reflect bullets/whatevertheredshinythingsare? I don't remember swords being able to do that. Also it's a glowing stick with a handle, it looks more like a bat/pipe than anything like a sword.

Moon_Moon said:
Can't Lightsabers reflect bullets/whatevertheredshinythingsare? I don't remember swords being able to do that. Also it's a glowing stick with a handle, it looks more like a bat/pipe than anything like a sword.

they're lasers, which frankly shouldn't be able to be reflected by energy like that, but who cares, fantasy. Lightsabers are over glorified hot glow sticks.

Moon_Moon said:
Can't Lightsabers reflect bullets/whatevertheredshinythingsare? I don't remember swords being able to do that. Also it's a glowing stick with a handle, it looks more like a bat/pipe than anything like a sword.

They probably could if they had that cortosis weave that star wars swords/vibroswords do. The same cortosis weave that allows them to duel lightsabers. In duels of swordsmanship.

Moon_Moon said:
Can't Lightsabers reflect bullets/whatevertheredshinythingsare? I don't remember swords being able to do that.

Swords can deflect bullets if the sword is at the correct angle.

Sollux said:
they're lasers, which frankly shouldn't be able to be reflected by energy like that, but who cares, fantasy. Lightsabers are over glorified hot glow sticks.

They are in fact blaster bolts, charges of superheated compressed particle energy, or in some designs ionized plasma.
There are laser pistols/rifles in the Star Wars universe as well, but they're a different technology that's older.

Fun fact: The rebel and empire blaster bolts are different colors because the different manufacturers use different gasses.

Fun fact: the rebel and empire blaster bolts are actually different colors because the director thought it would help the audience follow battles.

Further fun fact: santa isn't real. Sorry.

Snowy said:
Fun fact: the rebel and empire blaster bolts are actually different colors because the director thought it would help the audience follow battles.

Further fun fact: santa isn't real. Sorry.

Fun Fact: Just because there is a 4th wall reasoning to something doesn't mean that an in-universe reasoning hasn't been crafted and adopted canonically.

DrHorse said:
They probably could if they had that cortosis weave that star wars swords/vibroswords do. The same cortosis weave that allows them to duel lightsabers. In duels of swordsmanship.

You can bring a gun with a bayonet attachment to a sword fight and duel with swordsmanship, and neither the gun or bayonet are swords. You can also use a stick or metal rod to the same effect, and, once again, neither are swords. Swordsmanship is much more in how you utilize what you're wielding, as opposed to whether you're wielding a specific something.

Less semantically and more realistically, while we call knives and swords bladed weapons, we don't clump them together as "swords", even though swords are just knives that have developed through crafting techniques into becoming longer and stouter tools than the knives they were originally based off of, with as many different designs as there were areas in the world to adapt them to. If they actually cut and had an edge, I'd say go wild calling it a sword. But they don't, so they aren't.