Rainbow_Dash said:
We would need to have rules on voting in order to have made them up. Vote however you want on your account

That's sort of my point. That there ARE no rules.

Rainbow_Dash said:
We would need to have rules on voting in order to have made them up. Vote however you want on your account

This is basically how it was since ever...

Doesn't mean things can't/shouldn't change.

anon_X said:
Doesn't mean things can't/shouldn't change.

Again, agreed. We can suggest and guide people with knowledge on how the site expects someone to vote upon an image, but there will never be a way/means to force or enforce someone voting one way or another.

I would've thrown a hissyfit about the irrefutable irritating truth in that statement if it didn't come from a feline big enough to shut me up forcibly. XD <3

anon_X said:
I would've thrown a hissyfit about the irrefutable irritating truth in that statement if it didn't come from a feline big enough to shut me up forcibly. XD <3

hehe, dont tempt me. XD

_Waffles_ said:
hehe, dont tempt me. XD

Murr... I should probably think of a way to get this back on topic before my mind takes that to arousing places...

...nope. Not working. Got nothing. Help?

The best I could do is make a wiki page on voting that suggests to vote in favor of good art, to help better the site, but still vote in whatever way you want

Rainbow_Dash said:
The best I could do is make a wiki page on voting that suggests to vote in favor of good art, to help better the site, but still vote in whatever way you want

Sounds good, actually.

Rainbow_Dash said:
We would need to have rules on voting in order to have made them up. Vote however you want on your account

_Waffles_ said:
Fully agreed.

Fluttershy said:
Couldn't agree more.

RedOctober said:
That's sort of my point. That there ARE no rules.

Then allow me to rephrase the title.

How the voting system works VS how I think it should be used.

Sound better? A little less like a rule? So maybe you don't feel like you're disobeying a rule by just generally being an ass?

This forum post did not need to be dug up (Commented on again bumping it up) again just for more people to come around telling me they can do as they please. Fuck I hate that attitude so much. "I live in a free country I can do what I want" Fuck you seriously that's your fucking validation for being an asshole? Your validation for downvoting someones work not because it's bad quality work but because you don't like the fetish it displays is "I live in a free country" I seriously consider sucking on a muffler every time that argument is made because how can you just be such an ass and use freedom as your excuse?

^ I have no idea what I have written above. I'm angry I'm having a bad night and I didn't want to come to the forums to find this post again after the already negative feedback. I'm too pissed off right now to make an argument that won't offend anyone so take the words above lightly. I've had a really bad fucking night and I'm just not in the mood for a well thought out argument. So whatever offensive shit I just wrote out feel free to ignore it but on the other hand it's probably true.

;_; *hugs crono* it's okay. I know how you feel.

Cronolgical said:
words

Let's just calm down and take a break from e6. It'll be here when you get back and the issue really is minor.

Rainbow_Dash said:
Let's just calm down and take a break from e6. It'll be here when you get back and the issue really is minor.

This

Cronolgical said:
-snip-

The problem is that the system is supposed to be a gimmick and nothing else, it isn't supposed to work like the karmawhore systems on reddit, imgur and the likes.

The bigger problem is in how exactly you would want to enforce any sort of policy or guideline for that, we have 400 new posts each day and a couple thousand people online each day, who do you want to have look at all votes and have them divine if the person voted properly?
That just doesn't work.

NotMeNotYou said:
who do you want to have look at all votes and have them divine if the person voted properly?
That just doesn't work.

Also defining what would count as "properly" is silly for a vote left to people

NotMeNotYou said:
The problem is that the system is supposed to be a gimmick and nothing else, it isn't supposed to work like the karmawhore systems on reddit, imgur and the likes.

The bigger problem is in how exactly you would want to enforce any sort of policy or guideline for that, we have 400 new posts each day and a couple thousand people online each day, who do you want to have look at all votes and have them divine if the person voted properly?
That just doesn't work.

I'm not saying follow people around with a big "Vote's Moderator" sign above your head. There is no way to enforce it. By making this post I simply wanted to point out it would be nice if they did vote like that. There is no way to enforce it so you just simply can't.It would just be nice if they did vote this way.

All this over votes?

Sigh..

Patchi said:
All this over votes?

Sigh..

Just because you dont use/care about the system does not mean others appreciate its work and want to see a lot more use come from it.

_Waffles_ said:
Just because you dont use/care about the system does not mean others appreciate its work and want to see a lot more use come from it.

What patch means is that it's a very simple add on to our site that was never meant to do much, so the issue is very minor

_Waffles_ said:
Just because you dont use/care about the system does not mean others appreciate its work and want to see a lot more use come from it.

Don't assume what I don't use or care about.

It's a small thing and people are making it into some giant issue. There are far more important issues that deserve more attention then this.

Patchi said:
Don't assume what I don't use or care about.

It's a small thing and people are making it into some giant issue. There are far more important issues that deserve more attention then this.

The forum right now consists of a post asking about your favorite fetish, asking how to tag/search scent as a fetish. And tag implications. Oh please do tell me which one of these is the "far more important issues" You speak of.

Cronolgical said:
Oh please do tell me which one of these is the "far more important issues" You speak of.

The issue of banning the person above you! Reckless maniacs are banning over the lack of gravy, or due to Russians!

Cronolgical said:
The forum right now consists of a post asking about your favorite fetish, asking how to tag/search scent as a fetish. And tag implications. Oh please do tell me which one of these is the "far more important issues" You speak of.

Tagging projects, feature requests, and debates about what to do with an artist's name for ideal searching are a little more important. As of right now, this "issue" isn't going anywhere and I agree with Patchi and Dash.

anon_X said:
The issue of banning the person above you! Reckless maniacs are banning over the lack of gravy, or due to Russians!

Dude, you're not funny and you're not helping the situation at all

Uncalled for. My bad, I forgot this furry porn site forum is such serious bizness. Dick.

TheHuskyK9 said:
Dude, you're not funny and you're not helping the situation at all

anon_X said:
Uncalled for. My bad, I forgot this furry porn site forum is such serious bizness. Dick.

Well maybe if you didn't suck at telling jokes, I'd be in a better mood

Sorry I'm not Stephen freakin colbert... Imma just ignore this thread for the rest of the night. My life sucks enough, I don't need my retreat stressing me out.

anon_X said:
Sorry I'm not Stephen freakin colbert... Imma just ignore this thread for the rest of the night. My life sucks enough, I don't need my retreat stressing me out.

Ok

Cronolgical said:
The forum right now consists of a post asking about your favorite fetish, asking how to tag/search scent as a fetish. And tag implications. Oh please do tell me which one of these is the "far more important issues" You speak of.

Tag Implications, and aliases, and the discussion of them are far more important that the voting system in general, and one person's(anyone's not just yours) opinion of how that system should be used.

Stop fighting on the forum and please don't hurl insults. anon x just take a break from e6 for a bit and come back later. We aren't going anywhere

Scat, gore, watersports, and cub things will get downvoted no matter WHAT you do. No one's going to look at a picture of Renamon impaling a baby with her shitting dicknipples and consider the site's thoughts on rating before mashing the downvote button. Hell, users can barely use the FFD tool, and there's a NOTICE telling you what you can FFD before you submit the flag.

The voting system is a way for people to express what they feel about a picture. Do you like it? Upvote. Dislike? Downvote. Youtube doesn't encourage it's users to "consider the artistic merit of the video". It just encourages people to VOTE, and that's what we should do. That and blacklist.

Not to mention, people in general DO upvote things of artistic merit. Fuck, the highest scored post on e6 isn't even porn.

tl;dr Stop being assmad and just ignore the score.

Cronolgical said:
The forum right now consists of a post asking about your favorite fetish, asking how to tag/search scent as a fetish. And tag implications. Oh please do tell me which one of these is the "far more important issues" You speak of.

You ignore the others which consist of tag/implications, feedback on the site, questions about artists names and how to go about them.

You're funny.

SirAntagonist said:
Scat, gore, watersports, and cub things will get downvoted no matter WHAT you do. [...]

Agreed, like you said, voting is analogue to YouTube's voting system...

[...]Not to mention, people in general DO upvote things of artistic merit. Fuck, the highest scored post on e6 isn't even porn.

Damn, I remember that... Excellent animation by Tirrel

Patchi said:
You ignore the others which consist of tag/implications, feedback on the site, questions about artists names and how to go about them.

You're funny.

It was really late V.V I was clinging at straws there.

In any rate I just want this post to kinda fall of the map at this point as clearly it's getting nowhere between the people screaming they live in a free country and the people continuing to make the point that no one can change the way people vote on pictures. Ignoring the fact that the post is not to demand that the admins enforce this rule just to raise the topic that people are assholes and downvote art that doesn't deserve it.

So let's just no reply to this reply and we can all let this drop right off the map.

SirAntagonist said:
The voting system is a way for people to express what they feel about a picture. Do you like it? Upvote.

I like this. Voted up. But, really, I do. It subtly captures the subjectivity behind the voting system. That's all it can be: subjective. When faced with "Score: 0 (vote up/down)" without any further context--and it's already been lamented that many users don't read adjacent instructions anyways--the average user would just default to some instinctive calculation. Is the picture a "yes" or a "no," for instance. That calculation is directed precisely by emotion. The feature isn't asking users to rate objectively for merit; it's just asking. Period. /dead horse

It might, however, be possible to get users to differentiate their opinions on subjective appeal and objective merit, but I have doubts whether my idea would work. This solution requires two votes. Personally, I would use marketable labels that clarify the votes' intents or purposes rather than call the ratings "Score." For example, "Art" and "Hot" so that users could +Hot something or Art: 16 (vote up/down) it. Maybe use symbols like a heart and paintbrush to overcome language barriers instead/too. Those are just examples and would be replaced with something snazzy or perhaps distinctive of e621. Of course, this solution presents the undesirable decision of either wiping all previous votes or transferring them to the subjective appeal grouping.

Edit:

Cronolgical said:
people continuing to make the point that no one can change the way people vote on pictures.

I don't believe that in general. With the current voting system, yes. As I say in my post, I believe users need more context to guide their votes or clarify what they are voting for.

Too bad you're all but calling for a thread closure.

Gonna leave this thread alone because it seems that there might still be some discussion to be had, and an admin has already asked people to calm down.

Unless the problem continues, I'll leave this thread open.

@Abadbird, your suggestion reminds me somewhat of rule34, I think it is? Where they have a 24-hour timer on a "I came on this image" thing. sooooorta creepy.

123easy said:
@Abadbird, your suggestion reminds me somewhat of rule34, I think it is? Where they have a 24-hour timer on a "I came on this image" thing. sooooorta creepy.

We could call it something really classy, like "Veni, Vidi, Veni"-Button.

NotMeNotYou said:
We could call it something really classy, like "Veni, Vidi, Veni"-Button.

Yay for pig-latin.

This one's win.

123easy said:
@Abadbird, your suggestion reminds me somewhat of rule34, I think it is? Where they have a 24-hour timer on a "I came on this image" thing. sooooorta creepy.

I don't disagree. I was just trying to find a solution that addresses Cronolgical's desire as I understand it, a scoring system dedicated to artistic merit, without wiping the current scores. [Was going to explain my reasoning in detail, but it's unnecessary because I found a flaw.] I see the problem... +Hot would only apply to explicit artwork and generally to questionable artwork too, but is largely inappropriate for safe artwork. Since I browse with -rating:s, I forgot myself in my proposal above.

Okay then, the solution is to simply change the "Hot" label to something that encompasses the idea of "I like this." However unoriginal, +Like would be adequate, I presume. YouTube and Facebook use Likes, so it has mass recognition already going for it. Again, this is in the interest of saving the accumulated votes and history from the current voting system while distinguishing it from artistic merit.

Assuming that satisfactorily waters down the inherent creepiness of liking porn, the next apparent issue for me is establishing the need for an artistic merit voting system on this website. I personally doubt whether e621's complete userbase--not just the visible minorities in this thread and in upload comments--would actually use an artistic merit voting system, but I don't want to further color my proposal or shut it down with my own bias. Having said that, the furry fandom really is founded on and sustained with art and e621 especially so, so my concern is probably moot anyways. It seems quite fitting to rate images for artistic merit on an image-hosting website for an art-based fandom.

From now on, every vote needs to have a reason added.
Reasons are reviewed by a full time team of certified voting reviewers.
If your voting reason was bad I will be send to your house to pour oil in your bathtub.

abadbird said:
I don't disagree. I was just trying to find a solution that addresses Cronolgical's desire as I understand it, a scoring system dedicated to artistic merit, without wiping the current scores. [Was going to explain my reasoning in detail, but it's unnecessary because I found a flaw.] I see the problem... +Hot would only apply to explicit artwork and generally to questionable artwork too, but is largely inappropriate for safe artwork. Since I browse with -rating:s, I forgot myself in my proposal above.

Okay then, the solution is to simply change the "Hot" label to something that encompasses the idea of "I like this." However unoriginal, +Like would be adequate, I presume. YouTube and Facebook use Likes, so it has mass recognition already going for it. Again, this is in the interest of saving the accumulated votes and history from the current voting system while distinguishing it from artistic merit.

Assuming that satisfactorily waters down the inherent creepiness of liking porn, the next apparent issue for me is establishing the need for an artistic merit voting system on this website. I personally doubt whether e621's complete userbase--not just the visible minorities in this thread and in upload comments--would actually use an artistic merit voting system, but I don't want to further color my proposal or shut it down with my own bias. Having said that, the furry fandom really is founded on and sustained with art and e621 especially so, so my concern is probably moot anyways. It seems quite fitting to rate images for artistic merit on an image-hosting website for an art-based fandom.

Eh, Youporn and other sites already do it.... Why not just have Facebook Like buttons worked into the pages directly? :P

I was inactive for a few days. If people really don't want to see this thread getting bumped any more, then I will stop too. I'm only playing devil's advocate because I saw a solution to an issue that would otherwise go unresolved. Trying to contribute to an online community like I used to and all that.

123easy said:
Eh, Youporn and other sites already do it.... Why not just have Facebook Like buttons worked into the pages directly? :P

I don't see where Youporn allows users to rate for artistic merit and personal preference lol.

I already explained my reasons. The main point behind my suggestion, and this thread, is to differentiate votes for artistic merit from votes for personal preference. Rather than prescribing how users should place their votes, which is too cumbersome for most voters in most systems, I suggested giving users the option to vote for both merit and preference separately. If you don't like my labels, which I said should be changed from the outset (and would sooner leave to more creative minds), then please suggest your own or provide feedback on some other aspect of my idea. Doing neither is unproductive.

Really, deciding on labels is secondary to actually approving or disapproving the general idea behind my proposal.

We can always say that artistic merit isn't an issue worth exploring, as I suspect may be the case, but that kind of contradicts the very foundation of the furry fandom and e621's minimum quality approval standards.

tonycoon said:
Our policy on votes is that you get your one vote per post and you are free to do as you wish with it. While in a perfect world nobody would downvote just because they're not fond of the style or it's a fetish they don't partake in, this is clearly not a perfect world. The only thing you are not allowed to do with your vote is target specific users and downvote everything they upload regardless of content.

We aren't getting rid of votes and we aren't going to force people to only downvote if the art is objectively bad (have fun defining and enforcing that).

Here's a protip for finding popular/good content: Don't use order:score, because as some people pointed out, this doesn't really work well for more extreme fetishes or unpopular artists or whatever. Instead, use order:favcount. Now your posts are ordered by the number of people who added that post to their favorites, with none of the negative fetish or style biases.

Hello! (I apologize this is 8 years later) I would like for you to expound upon the first paragraph because as of recently my votes have been being rolled back and I'm being accused of vote manipulation/ targeting here on this site by both Millcore and NotMeNotYou even though I am only using my 1 vote per image. NMNY says I vote too quickly for him so they must be fraudulent. Even on posts that I know I've upvoted when I go back to that character or artist tag to see the post I'll see my vote has been removed and I can no longer vote on those images.

Many people on here say votes don't matter and I'm inclined to agree bc you don't win a trophy or a cash prize, its more like Who's Line is it Anyway. But how do you ethically accuse somebody of vote manipulation meanwhile use admin tools to vote manipulate?

There is powerful necromancy at work here.

azero said:
There is powerful necromancy at work here.

8 years? Even Vordemort took a decade? :P