So I just started to seriously get into drawing furry stuff, and I would like to improve. What would be a good place to get criticism on my content? I uploaded this first piece on here and Furaffinity, but people aren't very talkative. The only criticism I received was a downvote on the child post, but it would've been better if it was explained.
So yeah, I'm currently doing the color, so if there are flaws or inconsistencies/ways to spice up the thing I'd like to hear that before I finish it.
Not to mention I may spend some of my spare time doing more stuff, so the quicker I improve the better!

Well e6 is a good place to start. In my opinion, the forearms look tiny compared to the chest (exclude the breasts), proportions are a little off with the left arm, and you might want keep the line size the same. Other than that, I see potential in your art

Thanks for your input! Are the forearms tiny in a general aspect or should I just make them a bit wider? Same for the left arm? (By the way, do you mean our or hers left :p ?)

TheHuskyK9 said:
Well e6 is a good place to start. In my opinion, the forearms look tiny compared to the chest (exclude the breasts), proportions are a little off with the left arm, and you might want keep the line size the same. Other than that, I see potential in your art

might just be the boob in the way making it look smaller. looks pretty decent to me! but then again I can't draw for shit, so anything looks good to me lol

Armadax said:
Thanks for your input! Are the forearms tiny in a general aspect or should I just make them a bit wider? Same for the left arm? (By the way, do you mean our or hers left :p ?)

My left, her right. Also my mistake, I meant to say the biceps, not forearm. The biceps are a little wider than the forearm due to more muscle in there.

TheHuskyK9 said:
My left, her right. Also my mistake, I meant to say the biceps, not forearm. The biceps are a little wider than the forearm due to more muscle in there.

Yeah, that does make sense, they have to lift the rest of the arm after all.
Now that I look at it, yeah, the biceps are kinda small around the shoulders, I'll try and make them bigger next time I work on it.

DeviantArt and Reddit.

Dogenzaka said:
DeviantArt and Reddit.

Is there a Reddit section to use in particular?

Peekaboo said:
Definitively do not go to FA, bigger hugbox of a website doesn't exist on internet.

Truth. I've never seen any negative feedback on anything on there

TheHuskyK9 said:
Truth. I've never seen any negative feedback on anything on there

But if you give negative feedback you get blocked or wiped. DeviantArt is okay if the art is not that explicit ("artistic" nudes are okay, though). Also, you must be a "premium" user to request critique on your art (it gets added to some special list of "criticable artwork" or something like that)

Peekaboo said:
Definitively do not go to FA, bigger hugbox of a website doesn't exist on internet.

*snrk* "Hugbox"

Okay, so then I guess the only places left are reddit and e6 ?

Armadax said:
Okay, so then I guess the only places left are reddit and e6 ?

People on reddit will literally insult you instead of giving actual constructive criticism. Stay here and have a pickle

Does many people frequent this forum? I often see the same usernames every now and then.

I think that the vast majority are lurkers. I only contribute once in a while, though I read the forums frequently. Probably less than 1 percent ever post anything here in the forum.

edidaf said:
I think that the vast majority are lurkers.

He speaks the truth

Oh yeah, I saw your art and thought you were one to keep an eye on in future. I actually liked the concept on the child post with the transparent clothes. Though I thought the balance between the clothing and underneath was likely to shine out better in a colored version. Hard to get very much of that in a line art, but even so I liked what I saw. The biggest things which bothered me were actually pretty minor. I don't usually volunteer criticism though unless it's asked for. Since you asked though, there were two things:

1, the eyes threw me off a little. I think it's because the highlight was drawn in, and when things are still just lineart, it makes the eye look busy, sorta like you're seeing double in the pupil area, and it throws off where your eye focuses (pupil or highlight? back and forth). But in a colored version it wouldn't be a problem because the highlight wouldn't be as emphasized, more suggested. For a WIP though, that's a minor thing.

2, the arms. Already mentioned, but I wanted to add a few insights. I think part of the reason they look too skinny is because the hips/waist/chest (underneath the boobs) all seem consistently proportioned for a woman with a little bit of ample curves. Which I like, that's not a problem. It's just the shoulders look bony like an elbow, not curved: the bone there is too pronounced and nubby. And the arms look proportionally too skinny to belong to that body. Like they shrank somehow. But if you rounded the shoulders, widened the biceps, and maybe added a minor shaping to the forearms (a little width at the top and then gradually narrow down towards the wrist), then I think the proportions would be more pleasing, and visually seem right again.

I honestly like the rest though. And like I said, I have you bookmarked to keep track of. Your art has some very nice qualities. Just keep at it.

edidaf said:
I think that the vast majority are lurkers. I only contribute once in a while, though I read the forums frequently. Probably less than 1 percent ever post anything here in the forum.

edidaf said:
Probably less than 1 percent ever post anything here in the forum.

edidaf said:
1 percent

Occupy e621.

Dester said:

[/quote]

Occupy e621.

[/quote]

Lets not.

Here's my attempt at coloring. What do you think?

Armadax said:
Here's my attempt at coloring. What do you think?

I cant put my paw on it, but the shading on the lower half looks off, almost as if the shadow of the body is messed up in some way.

Conker said:
I cant put my paw on it, but the shading on the lower half looks off, almost as if the shadow of the body is messed up in some way.

Yeah, now that you mention it, I should have put the shadowy part lower, it doesn't bode very well with the shape of the belly.

Made a new one. Any thoughts?

Armadax said:
Made a new one. Any thoughts?

psst! post #386403

Looks nice! Just the arms seem a bit short, but maybe it's the perspective. Good overall (imo). Let's see what the others say

Xch3l said:
psst! post #386403

Looks nice! Just the arms seem a bit short, but maybe it's the perspective. Good overall (imo). Let's see what the others say

Whoops.
But yeah, I appear to have a problem with arms and perspective. I should get that checked out.

I'll echo about the arms being too small and skinny. I think it's mainly that the bicep is just too short. The fact it's bent and she's facing away at an angle means there's some foreshortening and it;'s not too far off. But there should just be more arm there, both the bicep especially but also the forearm are just too short, which gives the impression that if she straightened out her arms he'd have puny arms, which I doubt she does.

The legs, butt, penises look great though. The butt to thighs ratio is especially nice. The lines for the back and calves look fairly good too. I love the highlight on her buttcheek.

The face looks pretty good in shapes, but it looks odd when it's the only place in the picture you left flat without any shading to give it three-dimensionality. So adding some would improve things.

The feet need some serious work. I'd just plan in some time to study and practice draw a few feet, as it's a detail that can undermine an otherwise good picture, and you're bound to run into them on a regular basis. So might as well just bite the bullet and get a bit of foundation under you to make them easier in the future. Some of the problems: the shape, the angle in relation to the foot, the lack of details, the bone structures were all borked. The size is maybe a little too small too. Although if you want the feet to stay dainty, then it's almost the right size, just barely too small in relations to the leg though.

On the one that's in midair: a foot is not going to have a perfectly straight line from the shin, through the ankle, and along the top of the foot even when it's bent back. There's too many bones and an articulating joint there. The one resting on the ground is closer, but it's hard to tell where the bottom of the foot ends and the side of that foot begins. Just some minor details, some shading and a few lines, and it would gain a lot of definition. They also seem not quite long enough, like if she tried to walk on them she'd have troubles balancing. So maybe the impression of being too small is mostly about the length. idk. But I'd imagine if you added about the length of her toes to the end of her foot again, the length/size issue would suddenly seem a lot closer to looking right.

I can tell you've been practicing though, there's a lot of improvement from the first few pictures you did. You must be pretty proud of yourself. (I know I would be.) Keep it up! =)

furrypickle said:
I'll echo about the arms being too small and skinny. I think it's mainly that the bicep is just too short. The fact it's bent and she's facing away at an angle means there's some foreshortening and it;'s not too far off. But there should just be more arm there, both the bicep especially but also the forearm are just too short, which gives the impression that if she straightened out her arms he'd have puny arms, which I doubt she does.

The legs, butt, penises look great though. The butt to thighs ratio is especially nice. The lines for the back and calves look fairly good too. I love the highlight on her buttcheek.

The face looks pretty good in shapes, but it looks odd when it's the only place in the picture you left flat without any shading to give it three-dimensionality. So adding some would improve things.

The feet need some serious work. I'd just plan in some time to study and practice draw a few feet, as it's a detail that can undermine an otherwise good picture, and you're bound to run into them on a regular basis. So might as well just bite the bullet and get a bit of foundation under you to make them easier in the future. Some of the problems: the shape, the angle in relation to the foot, the lack of details, the bone structures were all borked. The size is maybe a little too small too. Although if you want the feet to stay dainty, then it's almost the right size, just barely too small in relations to the leg though.

On the one that's in midair: a foot is not going to have a perfectly straight line from the shin, through the ankle, and along the top of the foot even when it's bent back. There's too many bones and an articulating joint there. The one resting on the ground is closer, but it's hard to tell where the bottom of the foot ends and the side of that foot begins. Just some minor details, some shading and a few lines, and it would gain a lot of definition. They also seem not quite long enough, like if she tried to walk on them she'd have troubles balancing. So maybe the impression of being too small is mostly about the length. idk. But I'd imagine if you added about the length of her toes to the end of her foot again, the length/size issue would suddenly seem a lot closer to looking right.

I can tell you've been practicing though, there's a lot of improvement from the first few pictures you did. You must be pretty proud of yourself. (I know I would be.) Keep it up! =)

Wow, that's a very complete review! The problem with the arms' length is that they are at an oblique angle to the viewer's plane, and my attempt to render the perspective results in short limbs.
I don't know why the legs are immune to that. I guess it's easier for me to see if they look wrong or not.
What about the hand? I think it looks decent but it doesn't exactly follow the "hand length = face height" rule, since when I tried to make it so it looked rather wrong.
And yeah, the feet are a small scale disaster, I'm not used to drawing them, even less so from below. So I guess I'll grab a bunch of foot fetishists artworks and practice with them.
And yeah, I quite like how it turned out. But pride is not the way of the Jedi, and I must be harsh towards my work to improve.

How's that for a foot?

Another picture in the works. I finished the lineart.
Any criticisms before I get around to colouring?

make a post on 4chan.com/b/

Armadax said:
Another picture in the works. I finished the lineart.
Any criticisms before I get around to colouring?

Not bad. I can't find anything wrong with it in my opinion. If you do good at the coloring, it would be a great quality pic

drats said:
make a post on 4chan.com/b/

I'll try to then.

Armadax said:
Another picture in the works. I finished the lineart.
Any criticisms before I get around to colouring?

That looks quite good actually. The feet look much improved. And the arms, etc (problem areas in previous pictures) look quite good now. The only thing I wonder about is the man's left forearm looks little too short before it meets the wrist. But I also understand there's some foreshortening there so I'm guessing that's it. (Foreshortening is not something I excel at, so I can't give any detailed assessment on that at all.) The proportions and shaping of his entire arm etc all look great though. It all looks pretty good to me in fact. I look forward to seeing how it turns out after shading/coloring/etc.

ETA: by the way, 4chan, especially the /b/ board is the land of trolls. They'll say anything for a laugh. They're not usually very helpful, if they can think up some way to mess with you instead. So I wouldn't count on any serious or consistent feedback from there. Just as a fair warning.

furrypickle said:
ETA: by the way, 4chan, especially the /b/ board is the land of trolls. They'll say anything for a laugh. They're not usually very helpful, if they can think up some way to mess with you instead. So I wouldn't count on any serious or consistent feedback from there. Just as a fair warning.

Yep, I'm aware of that. I've been on the internet for almost a decade now :p

I'm halfway through. Here's what I got so far.
What do you think?

Peekaboo said:
Quite nice. She looks a bit pale though.

TBH I wanted to make her fur white at first. Perhaps I should have darkened the shadow colours like I did with the fox? Or is that unnecessary?

Peekaboo said:
Might be a good idea to make her darker, it'll also make it easier to create contrast in the grooves of her body.

OK, I'll try to consider that. However I'd prefer to keep this character's fur at least as light as Miu's Cream.

In other news, I'm done.
Anything else I should fix/improve next time I draw?

This time I try to focus on shading. Is that a proper start for this?

Peekaboo said:
The abdomen, thighs and waist look really good. The legs and arms need some work in order to not look like a single flat piece, and more of a segment of parts put together. You might want to look at some other furry artists and see how they draw faces in different direction, but don't expect to perfect it anytime soon.

Well people on 4Chan told me the face was an improvement over my past work, so at least there's been progress with that, even if it's still obviously very perfectible.
I'll try to rework the highlights and shadows on the arms and legs, in particular her right arm looks like it could look better.
And yeah, I have several particular pics from other artists. Most of the time I use it to spot whatever is wrong in the way I'm drawing things.

Uploaded the finished work. How did I do with shading?

Armadax said:
Uploaded the finished work. How did I do with shading?

Looking good bro. The face looked 3d for a second

TheHuskyK9 said:
Looking good bro. The face looked 3d for a second

Thanks! I guess next time I should try to make it look 3d period :p

Armadax said:
Uploaded the finished work. How did I do with shading?

There were a few things that jumped out at me. Luckily though, if you want to, they would be easy to change.

The highlights in the eyes. Personally the linework showing in the highlight looks really off. I would just delete the lines. If needed, merge the SAI linework layer with a normal layer, and the lines will become "normal", allowing you to erase the line without getting a rounded edge. Yeah... learned that one after a while.

The character's right thumb/palm needs a shift in the shading. The shading currently used makes the thumb look off. I would shift the shade to the image's left to simulate more of the depth of the palm rather than the direction of the tip of the thumb.

The single line in place of a belly button is a bit odd. I would swap it out with a small curve, shaded or not.

Last would be to do a soft erase (lower the density in SAI) at the base of the penis. It may give a better feel to the rest of the image.

Pretty damn solid though. What drawing is this for you? 15? 20?

_Waffles_ said:
There were a few things that jumped out at me. Luckily though, if you want to, they would be easy to change.

The highlights in the eyes. Personally the linework showing in the highlight looks really off. I would just delete the lines. If needed, merge the SAI linework layer with a normal layer, and the lines will become "normal", allowing you to erase the line without getting a rounded edge. Yeah... learned that one after a while.

Oops. Yeah I kinda forgot to do that, that's what happens when I spend too much time on something, I can't see what's wrong anymore.

The character's right thumb/palm needs a shift in the shading. The shading currently used makes the thumb look off. I would shift the shade to the image's left to simulate more of the depth of the palm rather than the direction of the tip of the thumb.

Yeah I thought the light source would principally cast shadows of the tip of the thumb, but that makes the palm look a bit flat and makes the thumb look weird as you said.

The single line in place of a belly button is a bit odd. I would swap it out with a small curve, shaded or not.

I wasn't sure how to deal with that one, every time I tried to change it it just looked worse. Perhaps I should give it another shot.

Last would be to do a soft erase (lower the density in SAI) at the base of the penis. It may give a better feel to the rest of the image.

Definitely. I guess I kinda rushed this one since it was the last thing I coloured.

Pretty damn solid though. What drawing is this for you? 15? 20?

Thanks, this is my fourth drawing, but I spend a lot of time doing these. The linework alone usually takes me from 2 to 4 hours :s And colouring takes quite a bit of time too.

I'd go through with all these modifications, but is there a way of updating posts on this site? I don't want to clutter the site with tons of modified versions.

I can give you some real critique if you would like. It will hurt, though, a lot.

AnonDrawFag said:
I can give you some real critique if you would like. It will hurt, though, a lot.

I'm well aware I'm shit at drawing. I don't know how much you can hurt me with that.

Armadax said:
I'm well aware I'm shit at drawing. I don't know how much you can hurt me with that.

Well, no one enjoys having their flaws pointed out to them, and there is a lot I could say about your drawings. I find that an abundance of the feedback you have already received was either too concerned with treating you delicately or was simply misguided as a whole neither of which is going to actually be very helpful in the long run. I didn't feel it was my place to just start barraging you with criticism without you knowing what you were getting into, even in a critique thread.

AnonDrawFag said:
Well, no one enjoys having their flaws pointed out to them, and there is a lot I could say about your drawings. I find that an abundance of the feedback you have already received was either too concerned with treating you delicately or was simply misguided as a whole neither of which is going to actually be very helpful in the long run. I didn't feel it was my place to just start barraging you with criticism without you knowing what you were getting into, even in a critique thread.

Well try posting some of these via PM if you're more comfortable with it.
The way you worded it sounded like some kind of blackmailing or something.
I mean, drawing isn't my profession nor did I devolve my whole life into it, if criticism is aiming to improve myself in the long run I shouldn't be hurt by it, should I?

Armadax said:
Well try posting some of these via PM if you're more comfortable with it.
The way you worded it sounded like some kind of blackmailing or something.
I mean, drawing isn't my profession nor did I devolve my whole life into it, if criticism is aiming to improve myself in the long run I shouldn't be hurt by it, should I?

When I say hurt, I simply mean that when you think you are doing something well, or when you have spent a long time on something and then someone comes along and tells you that it's not good, or that the time didn't amount to much it can be unpleasant, and demotivating.

You say that you are just doing this for fun, which is good. If your having fun, then in the long run not much else matters because your goal is achieved. Working to get better, though, will result in greater satisfaction and freedom.

I am busy at the moment, but when I am done, I'll type up a big thing of areas of improvement, how to improve them, resources, etc. if you would like.

AnonDrawFag said:
When I say hurt, I simply mean that when you think you are doing something well, or when you have spent a long time on something and then someone comes along and tells you that it's not good, or that the time didn't amount to much it can be unpleasant, and demotivating.

You say that you are just doing this for fun, which is good. If your having fun, then in the long run not much else matters because your goal is achieved. Working to get better, though, will result in greater satisfaction and freedom.

I am busy at the moment, but when I am done, I'll type up a big thing of areas of improvement, how to improve them, resources, etc. if you would like.

As long as it's constructive (which your last paragraph seems to indicate), I'd be glad if you did. It will certainly be better than trying to progress in the dark or revel in my own mediocrity.

I think with your bunny character, the roundness of the face seems... off. Like it's a pasted-on face to a mannequin rather than an actual head- It's about the dimensions and the apparent... flatness?... of it, compared to the rest of the piece. It also seems like her head is too small for her face?

With the feline, the head shape is better, but still seems off to me- perhaps because of how the ears come out of the head? They look much too close together, and not quite situated on the head- Possibly because they seem a little out of scale with the rest of her, and/or because they are missing the ear tufts inside the ear that differentiate inner and outer ear parts (and are honestly usually quite hard to draw well, from my experience). It could also be that her head is too small for her body.

The shading is getting better, but the way it almost seems done in flat layers of shade rather than being merged into one another reminds me of old GIF files with bad artifacting; maybe try making the demarkation between shaded areas less a line and more another small area of an in-between colour between the two it juxtaposes?

The nipples are nicely done, but the areola makes it seem like it's able to be gripped and pulled out; I'd recommend removing the line around it and leaving it a colour difference (basically, it should be like how the shading areas are currently, where it just goes from one colour to another without a detailing line in black).

The elbow (left on the drawing, her right) seems unnaturally flat, even if fur were to be involved.

Her mouth seems to lack depth, in both the lips and the visible inner mouth. The tongue is good, though it could use a little texturing (which will come with time as you move forward with greater detailing).

Her tail seems more like a meat tube than, well, a tail. If you take a look here ( http://catsnco.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/cat_tail_swish1.jpg ) then you can see what I mean; lack of tapering, fur feathering, patterning, etc. which ties in with-

She seems hairless, like she's just covered in skin- but even then, it's more like it's a layer of shiny brownish latex or something. The lack of patterning and feathering ( Which many artists have an issue with, presumably because of how much added work it can be) is similar to what you can see here, https://e621.net/post/show/387820 , and here, https://e621.net/post/show/383755 , while here https://e621.net/post/show/384723 , and here, https://e621.net/post/show/380327 , and here, https://e621.net/post/show/160330 , you can see the outline breaking that can be done to represent a furred body rather than like a body-sleeve, or just paint, that others seem to draw it as.

The naval line is also rather long for a belly-button representation; If it's meant to delineate the belly as a whole, though, it's an acceptable length; if that's the case, however, it should be slightly curved inwards, forming a ")" shape in general, with the tips tapering to the right to show the curvature of the belly- more or less pronounced depending on how large you want her belly to be with the length of the slope being more gradual for flatter stomachs or more pronounced, more like a "{", for larger, more rotund bellies. It can also be done where the outline of the belly is shaped, and then the naval is just the belly button, without the shaping lines at all-or even a mixture of both. https://e621.net/post/show/392907 and https://e621.net/post/show/394513 are examples of the bellybutton belly shaping (the first showing some belly, the second that her belly is almost completely flat); https://e621.net/post/show/394360 and https://e621.net/post/show/392090 illustrate the usage of belly lines to illustrate the belly's shape without using naval lines. https://e621.net/post/show/393997 and https://e621.net/post/show/393628 on the other hand show the usage of the combined traits (naval lines and belly lines) to make a more complex (and IMO more generally satisfying) image.

Lastly, the feet are rather poorly represented, looking like her feet have been encased in a latex sock that overexaggerates the dimensions of a foot- just a blocky triangle. It definitely needs more detail, as well as less of a generalized shape and more of a defined shape- the curvature of the foot when kneeling, the toes separate from the rest of the foot, any toenails or claws (since she's a feline furry, you have to decide how feral or human her feet are, of course; currently looks to be rather human).

Been a bit harsh, sometimes a bit hypercritical considering how new you are to drawing and how difficult some techniques are, which shouldn't be expected of a beginner such as yourself- but being able to identify those areas hopefully will be helpful for you in the future.

123easy said:
I think with your bunny character, the roundness of the face seems... off. Like it's a pasted-on face to a mannequin rather than an actual head- It's about the dimensions and the apparent... flatness?... of it, compared to the rest of the piece. It also seems like her head is too small for her face?

With the feline, the head shape is better, but still seems off to me- perhaps because of how the ears come out of the head? They look much too close together, and not quite situated on the head- Possibly because they seem a little out of scale with the rest of her, and/or because they are missing the ear tufts inside the ear that differentiate inner and outer ear parts (and are honestly usually quite hard to draw well, from my experience). It could also be that her head is too small for her body.

I had a hard time finding good references for the ears, probably because every pic I found showed them drawn in different ways (big ears, small ears, bent outwards, forward, with or without ear tufts...)
So as a result I couldn't really see for myself if what I drew would look natural or not. Do you have a feline pic in particular that you think looks correct on this aspect?

The shading is getting better, but the way it almost seems done in flat layers of shade rather than being merged into one another reminds me of old GIF files with bad artifacting; maybe try making the demarkation between shaded areas less a line and more another small area of an in-between colour between the two it juxtaposes?

It kinda reminded me of those old Worms Armaggedon maps, so yeah, I noticed that problem. However, and I think this is my biggest flaw with coloring, I don't actually know how I should smooth the shadows and highlight afterwards. In this case I used the water tool with a small size and medium persistance, which took me an awful lot of time for the result it yielded. How should I do that instead? From what I gather you have some experience with that, so how do you proceed?
Also, if I blur it too much, isn't it going to become a shadeless blob eventually?

The nipples are nicely done, but the areola makes it seem like it's able to be gripped and pulled out; I'd recommend removing the line around it and leaving it a colour difference (basically, it should be like how the shading areas are currently, where it just goes from one colour to another without a detailing line in black).

Noted then. I shall draw borderless nipples from now on.

The elbow (left on the drawing, her right) seems unnaturally flat, even if fur were to be involved.

Yes I see what you mean. Her bone needs to pop out more, and needs to be shaded accordingly, I'll try not to repeat the same mistake next time.

Her mouth seems to lack depth, in both the lips and the visible inner mouth. The tongue is good, though it could use a little texturing (which will come with time as you move forward with greater detailing).

What do you think I should do to add depth to the inner mouth? Detail it more? Also, are you sure I should draw lips on a furry face? Or did you mean something else entirely by that?

Her tail seems more like a meat tube than, well, a tail. If you take a look here ( http://catsnco.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/cat_tail_swish1.jpg ) then you can see what I mean; lack of tapering, fur feathering, patterning, etc. which ties in with-

Does the problem apply to the tail shape itself too? Or is it just a problem of texture?

She seems hairless, like she's just covered in skin- but even then, it's more like it's a layer of shiny brownish latex or something. The lack of patterning and feathering ( Which many artists have an issue with, presumably because of how much added work it can be) is similar to what you can see here, https://e621.net/post/show/387820 , and here, https://e621.net/post/show/383755 , while here https://e621.net/post/show/384723 , and here, https://e621.net/post/show/380327 , and here, https://e621.net/post/show/160330 , you can see the outline breaking that can be done to represent a furred body rather than like a body-sleeve, or just paint, that others seem to draw it as.

So as I understand it from your examples, feathering mostly consists of adding outlined tufts of hair in select areas (shoulders, elbows, chest, between the pelvis and the hips, underneath the thighs...) but also using the shading to enhance that "hairy" texture (Which I guess is done by using a soft, medium-sized brush).
If so, then I guess I'll try my hand at it, but I really need to resolve the shadow smoothing problem first.

The naval line is also rather long for a belly-button representation; If it's meant to delineate the belly as a whole, though, it's an acceptable length; if that's the case, however, it should be slightly curved inwards, forming a ")" shape in general, with the tips tapering to the right to show the curvature of the belly- more or less pronounced depending on how large you want her belly to be with the length of the slope being more gradual for flatter stomachs or more pronounced, more like a "{", for larger, more rotund bellies. It can also be done where the outline of the belly is shaped, and then the naval is just the belly button, without the shaping lines at all-or even a mixture of both. https://e621.net/post/show/392907 and https://e621.net/post/show/394513 are examples of the bellybutton belly shaping (the first showing some belly, the second that her belly is almost completely flat); https://e621.net/post/show/394360 and https://e621.net/post/show/392090 illustrate the usage of belly lines to illustrate the belly's shape without using naval lines. https://e621.net/post/show/393997 and https://e621.net/post/show/393628 on the other hand show the usage of the combined traits (naval lines and belly lines) to make a more complex (and IMO more generally satisfying) image.

I'll be honest and confess I really didn't know what I was doing with that one. I wasn't aware you could use solid lines to describe the curvature of a belly. What I did there was more of a blotched bellybutton. I'll try to keep those examples in mind. I agree with you, proper use of this technique really does add to the quality of the picture.

Lastly, the feet are rather poorly represented, looking like her feet have been encased in a latex sock that overexaggerates the dimensions of a foot- just a blocky triangle. It definitely needs more detail, as well as less of a generalized shape and more of a defined shape- the curvature of the foot when kneeling, the toes separate from the rest of the foot, any toenails or claws (since she's a feline furry, you have to decide how feral or human her feet are, of course; currently looks to be rather human).

Aaah, feet! My Achilles' heel. I spent over an hour on this... Thing. I was going for a mainly humanoid-looking foot there, but it was particularly difficult for me to find good reference pictures, especially in this particular pose. I finally catered to this one but whenever I tried to get as sophisticated in the foot's outline it ended up looking worse. That triangular shape is the best I could deliver in the end. I really struggle to draw decent-looking feet, especially since it's not really a part of the human body you focus on everyday.

Been a bit harsh, sometimes a bit hypercritical considering how new you are to drawing and how difficult some techniques are, which shouldn't be expected of a beginner such as yourself- but being able to identify those areas hopefully will be helpful for you in the future.

I don't think there's such a thing as being hypercritical as long as you don't see flaws as the lack of a skill, but rather as the prospect of an improvement. I thank you for the help, and can't wait to hear more of your criticisms.

Firstly, I have an eye for art, but as for actually drawing it? I suck >_>; Badly. So I don't really know about the actual process involved that much, I can only comment on what feels right or wrong by looking at a piece and trying to quantify it into something that can be of use to the artist. I'm glad that I've been of some help at all. @_@

On to responding more directly to your response: https://e621.net/post/show/394491 shows a side-profile of a feline's head (and kneeling anthro cat-feet to boot); https://e621.net/post/show/394488 https://e621.net/post/show/127704 are good examples of ears, to me; they're large, but not massively so (different from fennec ears, which are longer and more to the side, such as https://e621.net/post/show/391914 ). Google-searching "cat ears" or even "real cat ears" (to cut out SOME of the cat ear hairbands...) esp. with the hairless variety shows how the headshape of the cat works- semi-flat with the ears mostly to the side of the skull and swept up along the side of the skull, going a bit over the skull as well. Taking that and bringing it to a 50:50 ratio with humans gives you the default "furry" cat face-shape, IMO. You can then modify it along either feline or human axis to get your desired level, as per: http://cdn-www.i-am-bored.com/media/furry.jpg (can't remember what the one on e6 is tagged, so you get an out-of-site version).

Tools you'd be better talking with Waffles about; I'm a critic, not an artist, unfortunately. x_x; Agreed on blurring too much making it just a shapeless blob, but... Not sure how to fix it other than to shade it more gradually, in your style. https://e621.net/post/show/380859 is a decent example, as is https://e621.net/post/show/381435 on the opposite style of shading I suggested attempting- using just one different shade for the main light/shadow separation, then more subtle shading in the darker recesses. The second is closer to how you shade, so you might want to give that style a try. Set up a light source and use that as the shading point of reference, sort of thing. Giving it a second consideration, I think the reason why the shading as it is is so offputting is because there are so many different gradiations of shading all over, rather than following a defined light source- which makes it resemble colour artifacting, rather than shading. Designating a light source and shading from that will probably resolve that.

The second picture also gives a good example of how tails can be poofy and relatively the same all the way from tip to base, but still look poofy and furred. I would say it's mostly a texture and outline issue. Alternative shapes can be done (such as a tapering one) depending on the tail and/or the fur-type. It works with Pumzie in the image, for example, because of the species of feline she is, which have naturally poofy tails.

Ksharra draws excellent furred breasts with unfurred nipples, if you want to see an example of those. I think you'll do just fine with that though.

for the inner mouth, deeper shading as it goes inwards, so the shading gives the shape and follows the receding curvature of the mouth towards the throat. As it is, it's like a flat reddish wall inside her mouth. Remember to account for the cheek and jaw versus deeper into the mouth; felines espccially can open their mouths rather wider than humans, so it does present a different profile. Look at images of cats and humans yawning and you'll be able to see what I mean. As for lips, I didn't mean to draw human lips on her x3 Just that when referring to the outermost part of the mouth that covers the teeth, I call them lips for expedience and readability, regardless of species. What I meant was that they seemed paper-thin, without any thickness to them at all. You can draw human lips (some have gotten their style down that it even looks almost natural- or at least as natural as a furry will ever look) or not, your choice.

For fur feathering it also breaks up the body lines, as you can see with the third image in that paragraph, first of the ones I'd recommend using as an example. The lines of the elbows, knees, ribs, pelvis, stomach, hips, mons, collarbone, etc. are all there, but softened and hashed (in that artist's style) to denote that the body is furred. Even though there isn't anything else to indicate fur, those lines give the illusion of the entire body being furred, as you can see in the fourth image, or second of the ones I gave as an example (which is frankly way above anything I'd ever even attempt without years of practice, and just find flabbergastingly amazingly detailed)

http://www.artrenewal.org/pages/artwork.php?artworkid=16858 and http://images.fineartamerica.com/images-medium-large-5/nude-woman-kneeling-backside-subdued-light-doyle-shaw.jpg are good examples of a few foot positions as they might be posed while kneeling; I'm having difficulty finding an image that better illustrates feet while kneeling in a variety of angles, to better give you a grasp on their design- but that should help, somewhat. Furrifying them is something else, and you should be able to find plenty by searching the tag "feet". https://e621.net/post/show/394502 and https://e621.net/post/show/394067 are some versions of furrified feet while kneeling, to give you a head start. Really, feet are a big problem for most artists, so don't feel bad! There's a reason why we laud any artist that can do amazing feet. :3

123easy said:
Tools you'd be better talking with Waffles about; I'm a critic, not an artist, unfortunately. x_x; Agreed on blurring too much making it just a shapeless blob, but... Not sure how to fix it other than to shade it more gradually, in your style. https://e621.net/post/show/380859 is a decent example, as is https://e621.net/post/show/381435 on the opposite style of shading I suggested attempting- using just one different shade for the main light/shadow separation, then more subtle shading in the darker recesses. The second is closer to how you shade, so you might want to give that style a try. Set up a light source and use that as the shading point of reference, sort of thing. Giving it a second consideration, I think the reason why the shading as it is is so offputting is because there are so many different gradiations of shading all over, rather than following a defined light source- which makes it resemble colour artifacting, rather than shading. Designating a light source and shading from that will probably resolve that.

Well, I did designate a light source to work from, it's supposed to be at shoulder's height, at her left, directed towards a North-West-West axis. So unless I messed up on that as well, I think the problem is rather that there are too many graduations/they aren't subtle enough. I guess next time I'll try to do it with a single gradient like on the wolfy-nail piece you posted.
Do you have anything on the anatomy as a whole? (If not I'm sure AnonDrawFag will have something for me, judging by what he said)

Armadax said:
Well, I did designate a light source to work from, it's supposed to be at shoulder's height, at her left, directed towards a North-West-West axis. So unless I messed up on that as well, I think the problem is rather that there are too many graduations/they aren't subtle enough. I guess next time I'll try to do it with a single gradient like on the wolfy-nail piece you posted.
Do you have anything on the anatomy as a whole? (If not I'm sure AnonDrawFag will have something for me, judging by what he said)

I actually like the anatomy as a whole. The only issues I really have is the head:body ratio, the elbow, and the feet; the rest of it is well proportioned and nicely drawn.

Re: Light source- I feel like a derp, because it's blatantly obvious that you did use one; I was looking at the shading as individual patches instead of a whole bodyeffect (to be fair, I have ait as un-resized and zoomed in, so I don't see the image as a whole and have to scroll down and to the right some). Yeah, I think there the case is too many shading gradations, compared to how shadows work IRL ( http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Example_portrait_with_three-point_lighting,_by_James_Jeffrey.jpg great example here, how you can see the edge of the shadows is fuzzy/brighter than the darker shadow where the light doesn't hit, and gradually darkens all in one zone rather than doing bands of colour switching; her right arm is a good place to focus on for a clearer visualization).

123easy said:
I actually like the anatomy as a whole. The only issues I really have is the head:body ratio, the elbow, and the feet; the rest of it is well proportioned and nicely drawn.

Re: Light source- I feel like a derp, because it's blatantly obvious that you did use one; I was looking at the shading as individual patches instead of a whole bodyeffect (to be fair, I have ait as un-resized and zoomed in, so I don't see the image as a whole and have to scroll down and to the right some). Yeah, I think there the case is too many shading gradations, compared to how shadows work IRL ( http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8d/Example_portrait_with_three-point_lighting,_by_James_Jeffrey.jpg great example here, how you can see the edge of the shadows is fuzzy/brighter than the darker shadow where the light doesn't hit, and gradually darkens all in one zone rather than doing bands of colour switching; her right arm is a good place to focus on for a clearer visualization).

The head/body ratio should be about 1/8 in height, right? Or am I mistaken?

Armadax said:
The head/body ratio should be about 1/8 in height, right? Or am I mistaken?

Oh- sorry, head:body is for the bunny picture >.<; The feline one is the elbow and feet. Herpaderp.

Ok, here I am, Sorry for the very late post. This is going to be a longish read, but there is a lot to cover. Not to worry though, just take everything at your own pace and you will be fine. There is no possible way I could cover everything, but I will do my best to condense the essentials here and give you a solid starting point.

Let's start off by addressing what other people have responded to your work with. Mostly what I saw was people criticizing a leg, or any number of other individual parts. This is wrong, they are missing source of the problem. While, yes, making small modifications to an eye or a hand will improve the piece in itself, and help you improve your overall skill; these improvements, however, wont solve common issues, and will only improve you're overall skill marginally.

What is the main issue? Well there are a few, and they compose the fundamentals of drawing. The first and foremost would be construction. Your drawings are flat, your characters are posed into very stiff and static poses, and your proportions are a bit wonky. Don't let this discourage you though, all of this is expected for beginners, and it takes time and know-how to develop.

The obvious question then is: how do I address these issues and improve? The obvious answer is practice, but there is much more to it than that. It's not about volume of work, and in fact successful musical students traditionally practice less than those underneath them. The same applies for art. As opposed to simply drawing, you will improve significantly faster by working outside of your comfort zone, isolating imperfections and working on those.

Another thing I saw was the suggestion of looking at other people's artwork. It's not entirely wrong to do so, but you should never use it as the base for a drawing. This is a common mistake for new artists, but why is it wrong to reference other peoples work? because you will wont be able to absorb the subtleties of reality in form, texture and lighting. It's like taking a photograph of a photograph, recording a movie at a movie theater, a translation of a translation. Now not only do your flaws become prevalent but you inherit those of the original artist as well. It's ok to look at other works for inspiration or approach to how something is done, but not as a reference. For that use reality (photos, a mirror, a model, accurate/scientific anatomical renders, etc.).

Where do you start? Well, drawing/painting is generally divided into 2 sections: Construction which is the sketching out of your forms and providing the draftsmanship for the entire piece, and Rendering which involves the coloring shading and texturing of your underlying construction. There could be considered an in between phase of doing detailed linework, laying color flats, etc., but we will ignore this for now for simplicity's sake. The area that will have the greatest impact is going to be construction. While working on your rendering will grant you greater depth and better textures, none of that matters without a solid base.

Let's take a closer look at construction, how to approach it, and how to improve. Now, there are entire books on construction, anatomy, and perspective, so I'll just cover a few large points and leave you with further reading and helpful resources at the end. Now then, construction is the process of breaking down what composes an object or figure into basic elements and using those elements to build what you want on the canvas. Simply put it's using forms (3 dimensional shapes) to make an object or form.

1. Think in terms of FORMS not SHAPES. Instead of circles, squares, and rectangles, think of spheres cubes and cylinders. This allows you to better draw and imagine things in 3d space -- Side note: when you see other artists reference the word shape, they generally mean form. Also in general when drawing you will use shapes as a simple representation for forms. You will draw a circle but in reality you will be drawing a sphere that just isn't rendered yet.

2. Avoid following contours (the outer edge of figures, or, more simply outlines). Simply observing the outlines of an object reduces them to shapes, and we don't want to think like that. We need to think in forms -- Note: this is referring to observation and line of thinking and should be confused with drawing method.

Let's take a look at an example real quick. Now you drew a foot and asked if it was good. It's not bad, it resembles a foot, has 5 toes, a heel, ankle and arch. There is a lot more subtlety to it than what you captured though, and as a result the foot looks a bit misshapen, and out of perspective. To fix this, you would want to look at few references to understand the structure of a foot (it's joints and major forms), then construct the foot using this knowledge. The following image shows the use of forms to construct a foot based off of your foot paired with reference images, it's not perfect but it shows what I mean: http://i.imgur.com/lzQTdBP.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok, I am going to take a quick break and grab some food now. I will complete the rest later tonight. If you have any questions in between now and then feel free to ask.

I tried to continue what I was writing earlier, but I was having difficulty doing so without devolving into a large wall of rambling.

Here are some quick resources for drawing.

http://www.squidoo.com/how-to-draw-learn -- /ic/'s resource guide for beginners.
http://ctrlpaint.com/library/ -- a good library of free tutorial videos for beginners on fundamentals, learning more about digital paint, getting a bit more advanced.

As far as other sites for crits (your original question), the only 2 good sites I know of are:

conceptart.org -- I have not been there in a while so I don't know the current state of the community.

http://www.4chan.org/ic/ -- I know someone linked you to /b/ which is a putrid vile place, and not a good place to get feedback, but /ic/ is intended strictly for artwork and critiques. The community is rather harsh, but they generally speak the truth. Just take everything with a pinch of salt and you can learn a lot there.

Otherwise you can just keep asking for help here, and I'll be around. I wont take 2 days and just dump disjointed walls of text on you anymore.

AnonDrawFag said:
I tried to continue what I was writing earlier, but I was having difficulty doing so without devolving into a large wall of rambling.

Here are some quick resources for drawing.

http://www.squidoo.com/how-to-draw-learn -- /ic/'s resource guide for beginners.
http://ctrlpaint.com/library/ -- a good library of free tutorial videos for beginners on fundamentals, learning more about digital paint, getting a bit more advanced.

As far as other sites for crits (your original question), the only 2 good sites I know of are:

conceptart.org -- I have not been there in a while so I don't know the current state of the community.

http://www.4chan.org/ic/ -- I know someone linked you to /b/ which is a putrid vile place, and not a good place to get feedback, but /ic/ is intended strictly for artwork and critiques. The community is rather harsh, but they generally speak the truth. Just take everything with a pinch of salt and you can learn a lot there.

Otherwise you can just keep asking for help here, and I'll be around. I wont take 2 days and just dump disjointed walls of text on you anymore.

Thanks for all that input. I looked at some videos from the ctrlpaint site, in particular the "Form, not shape" one and the "Constructive Form" series, since you mentioned that. There are some things I'm not sure of, though. To practice using forms as the base of a drawing, should I try to breakdown reference pictures into forms (like I tried to do here ), or directly try to represent those forms at a different angle/in a different pose? Also, should I try to represent as much depth as possible using complex forms, or attempt to use the simplest forms possible?

Armadax said:

--snip--

You are going to want to try to construct what you see in the image. The goal here, though, is not to copy the image, but to use the image to construct a realistic head. Then afterword it would certainly be helpful to attempt to draw the same head at different angles. Also, you are going to want to start as simple as possible and then get more complex as you go across the image. Sketch the large shapes, then carve out the details. This should give you an idea as to what I mean:

1. http://i.imgur.com/yy2DCmf.jpg
2. http://i.imgur.com/E5Qku9E.jpg
3. http://i.imgur.com/uxigqU8.jpg
4. http://i.imgur.com/aO6K4kA.jpg
5. http://i.imgur.com/FoEDdVU.jpg

Also, you don't have to restrict yourself to practicing like this. You do this for fun and you should have fun. Maybe alternate between doing a few fun pieces and a few practice works.

I have a question for you. How do you primarily draw. Do you mainly use a pencil and sketch book, or do you mostly try to work on the computer? On the computer are you using a mouse or a tablet?

AnonDrawFag said:
You are going to want to try to construct what you see in the image. The goal here, though, is not to copy the image, but to use the image to construct a realistic head. Then afterword it would certainly be helpful to attempt to draw the same head at different angles. Also, you are going to want to start as simple as possible and then get more complex as you go across the image. Sketch the large shapes, then carve out the details. This should give you an idea as to what I mean:

1. http://i.imgur.com/yy2DCmf.jpg
2. http://i.imgur.com/E5Qku9E.jpg
3. http://i.imgur.com/uxigqU8.jpg
4. http://i.imgur.com/aO6K4kA.jpg
5. http://i.imgur.com/FoEDdVU.jpg

Also, you don't have to restrict yourself to practicing like this. You do this for fun and you should have fun. Maybe alternate between doing a few fun pieces and a few practice works.

I have a question for you. How do you primarily draw. Do you mainly use a pencil and sketch book, or do you mostly try to work on the computer? On the computer are you using a mouse or a tablet?

I used to mostly sketch, and do some drawings on Flash when I still had a tablet. Recently I mainly draw with the computer, using a mouse. (Although my brother has a Wacom, but he's going to need it for professional work in a few years.)

What would be the most efficient kind of model to practice on? Can it be anything or should I cater to anatomy references and such?

I remember a site that had 3D models of female and male anatomy (hands, arms, legs, feet, full body, everything), can't remember the name of it though... maybe the other guys know what I mean

Armadax said:
What would be the most efficient kind of model to practice on? Can it be anything or should I cater to anatomy references and such?

anatomical references provide the most efficient kind of model for getting joints and positioning correctly, but after that it depends on how your style grows and what sort of material you feel you should move towards.

Armadax said:
What would be the most efficient kind of model to practice on? Can it be anything or should I cater to anatomy references and such?

I have found that doing human anatomy is generally the most beneficial as it is the most specific (in that the human eye will recognize incontinuities and subtle changes on other humans much more than they will anything else). This makes it easier to identify flaws, and find areas of improvement, as well as pay better attention to details than working with other things would. However practicing still-lifes, animals, landscapes, etc. is still very beneficial, and it's good to work on a variety of things so that you don't become stagnant.

On another note, I would strongly recommend, when practicing at least, that you work in a traditional medium as opposed to using your mouse on the computer. Working in black and white helps you understand values/shading, and working with a stylus gives you a better sense of control and improves your dexterity. I'm not saying never draw on the computer, but that learning wise it is more helpful to draw with a sketchbook and pencil and then diversify as you progress. Another method would be to sketch on paper and if you want to color it scan it and work on top of it on the computer.

Also here is another link of resources, I didn't link it last time because the page was down at the time: https://sites.google.com/site/ourwici/

Xch3l said:
I remember a site that had 3D models of female and male anatomy (hands, arms, legs, feet, full body, everything), can't remember the name of it though... maybe the other guys know what I mean

I know there is a site called posemaniacs that has 3d skinless models so you can learn the musculatures while figuredrawing: http://www.posemaniacs.com/

AnonDrawFag said:
Also here is another link of resources, I didn't link it last time because the page was down at the time: https://sites.google.com/site/ourwici/[/quote]
Woah, this one seems particularly useful. I'll try to use that in conjonction with reference images.

AnonDrawFag Said:
On another note, I would strongly recommend, when practicing at least, that you work in a traditional medium as opposed to using your mouse on the computer. Working in black and white helps you understand values/shading, and working with a stylus gives you a better sense of control and improves your dexterity. I'm not saying never draw on the computer, but that learning wise it is more helpful to draw with a sketchbook and pencil and then diversify as you progress. Another method would be to sketch on paper and if you want to color it scan it and work on top of it on the computer.

I heartily disagree. A lot of artwork for various projects like games, movies , comics, etc. is being done solely digitally these days, with a stylus or with a mouse or both. Whilst working with traditional media does enhance stylus usage, it's not entirely the same, and learning how to use a mouse can be just as beneficial. I would refer you to the sped-up art videos done by Riot/League of Legends artists wherein they utilize both stylus and/or a mouse for their art, depending on the artist.

Or, TLDR- I'd recommend learning stylus over traditional, but mouse use isn't a bad thing.

123easy said:
I heartily disagree. A lot of artwork for various projects like games, movies , comics, etc. is being done solely digitally these days, with a stylus or with a mouse or both. Whilst working with traditional media does enhance stylus usage, it's not entirely the same, and learning how to use a mouse can be just as beneficial. I would refer you to the sped-up art videos done by Riot/League of Legends artists wherein they utilize both stylus and/or a mouse for their art, depending on the artist.

Or, TLDR- I'd recommend learning stylus over traditional, but mouse use isn't a bad thing.

For one thing, it seems that for me drawing with a mouse takes a lot more time than with a stylus or a pencil. So if I were to do anatomic studies or such, it would be more beneficial for practice if I could draw more and faster. Not to mention that in those cases you rarely refine (or even expose) your work much, ie there is no need for digital post-processing.

Armadax said:
For one thing, it seems that for me drawing with a mouse takes a lot more time than with a stylus or a pencil. So if I were to do anatomic studies or such, it would be more beneficial for practice if I could draw more and faster. Not to mention that in those cases you rarely refine (or even expose) your work much, ie there is no need for digital post-processing.

Drawing with the mouse can take much more time if you're not used to it, but I used to date an artist who actually did both, and she started out much faster with the stylus because of traditional artwork skills as well. She practiced some and got much better at drawing with the mouse quite quickly though. This said, it's a skillset of learning how to draw with very fluid small movements that expedite learning fine motor control at the wrist rather than the finger- I and my ex found them both to be useful for different motions and strokes of the brush.

If all you're doing is just plain and simply trying to increase your anatomic structure and that's all, then yes, drawing with whichever tool is your best would be the best choice. I've been speaking of an overall usefulness perspective, though.

123easy said:
I heartily disagree. A lot of artwork for various projects like games, movies , comics, etc. is being done solely digitally these days, with a stylus or with a mouse or both. Whilst working with traditional media does enhance stylus usage, it's not entirely the same, and learning how to use a mouse can be just as beneficial. I would refer you to the sped-up art videos done by Riot/League of Legends artists wherein they utilize both stylus and/or a mouse for their art, depending on the artist.

Or, TLDR- I'd recommend learning stylus over traditional, but mouse use isn't a bad thing.

I really disagree. Working digitally is only going to slow down the learning process. You are adding all these other variables that are entirely superfluous. Drawing with a mouse encourages wrist drawing when you should be drawing with your entire arm. You talked about professional settings, but Armadax is a beginner and has a long road to follow if he wants to be a professional. Besides, I don't know a single professional who works with a mouse instead of a tablet. I am not saying that he shouldn't learn to work with photoshop or painter, but that focusing on it at an early level is only going to slow him down.