I'd like to request the tag implication "Unicorn" -> "Equine" to be removed.

When browsing for "Equines", too often I'm seeing characters with 1 horn tagged as "Unicorn", because of the horn, while the character is completely unrelated to anything equine.

Case in point: https://e621.net/post/index/1/ultraviolet_%28character%29%20equine
Not one of those images contain a equine character. I used this character due to the large sample size, but there's a few more out there.

At one point, I removed the "Unicorn" and "Equine" tags from a few of those posts, but that change was reverted, because the character's a hybrid, which justifies the "Unicorn" tag. Fair enough, but the "Equine" implication doesn't make sense, then.

Generally, Unicorns are considered to be horselike creatures, but there's also a more goatlike origin to the creature, which I've seen used, also:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Oftheunicorn.jpg

Cerbrus said:
I'd like to request the tag implication "Unicorn" -> "Equine" to be removed.

When browsing for "Equines", too often I'm seeing characters with 1 horn tagged as "Unicorn", because of the horn, while the character is completely unrelated to anything equine.

Case in point: https://e621.net/post/index/1/ultraviolet_%28character%29%20equine
Not one of those images contain a equine character. I used this character due to the large sample size, but there's a few more out there.

At one point, I removed the "Unicorn" and "Equine" tags from a few of those posts, but that change was reverted, because the character's a hybrid, which justifies the "Unicorn" tag. Fair enough, but the "Equine" implication doesn't make sense, then.

Generally, Unicorns are considered to be horselike creatures, but there's also a more goatlike origin to the creature, which I've seen used, also:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Oftheunicorn.jpg

If the character is both a bat and a unicorn hybrid, it needs be tagged. It has hooves instead of feet, and it has an alicorn. These are equine traits. Anything that isn't a unicorn that has an alicorn however should be tagged as such, BUT that would require removing the absolutely stupid alias to winged_unicorn that alicorn has, first. Otherwise, just tag horn.

123easy said:
If the character is both a bat and a unicorn hybrid, it needs be tagged. It has hooves instead of feet, and it has an alicorn. These are equine traits. Anything that isn't a unicorn that has an alicorn however should be tagged as such, BUT that would require removing the absolutely stupid alias to winged_unicorn that alicorn has, first. Otherwise, just tag horn.

Hooves aren't necessarily equine.
In the case of that ultraviolet character, the hooves are two-toed, which is more like what bovines / bovids / cervidae have.
(Which is related to the more goatlike origin of unicorns)

So, basically, "Unicorn" -> "Equine" has got to be removed, as well as "Alicorn" -> "Winged_unicorn", it seems.

Cerbrus said:
Hooves aren't necessarily equine.
In the case of that ultraviolet character, the hooves are two-toed, which is more like what bovines / bovids / cervidae have.
(Which is related to the more goatlike origin of unicorns)

So, basically, "Unicorn" -> "Equine" has got to be removed, as well as "Alicorn" -> "Winged_unicorn", it seems.

Hooves and an alicorn are enough to identify as a unicorn, cloven or not- in fact some historical depictions of the unicorn have it share the cloven hooves of its caprine ancestry (mythologically) whilst still having the body shape of a horse, along with the alicorn. Yes, they originally had more in common with goats, but that evolved over time into something quite different, to where a layperson description of a unicorn is that of "horse with a twisted horn". Otherwise we might as well remove "fox" from "canine" because it can also be a robot fox, or "hedgehog" from Sonic because he looks nothing like a hedgehog other than the spines, superficially- same principle here.

Alicorn > Winged_unicorn is because of fucking ponies, though- A word that's been used and STILL IS to refer to the unicorn's horn has had its entire purpose and meaning subsumed because of ponies. -.- I tried fighting that battle before, but so long as there are some admins that are bronies, that alias is going to stay, I fear.

Cerbrus said:
Case in point: https://e621.net/post/index/1/ultraviolet_%28character%29%20equine
Not one of those images contain a equine character. I used this character due to the large sample size, but there's a few more out there.

That's the Ukimori species. I don't think they need to be tagged as hybrids, since we don't tag other original species (such as Sergals) as hybrids either. I'd suggest trimming most of the species tags (hybrid, unicorn, etc.) from those.

Genjar said:
That's the Ukimori species. I don't think they need to be tagged as hybrids, since we don't tag other original species (such as Sergals) as hybrids either. I'd suggest trimming most of the species tags (hybrid, unicorn, etc.) from those.

Oh, that's excellent news.
Let's get to work.

Genjar said:
That's the Ukimori species. I don't think they need to be tagged as hybrids, since we don't tag other original species (such as Sergals) as hybrids either. I'd suggest trimming most of the species tags (hybrid, unicorn, etc.) from those.

We don't normally tag created species like that, do we? I mean, Sergal made it because it was widely adopted, but from what I can see, that character is the only one.

so...what needs to be done?

Are we just going to clean up the unicorn hybrids with ukimori or do we still need unicorn de-impilicated from equine?

We have a lot of species tags that are only used for one or two characters. Shurian, Murasadramon, Zanburg, Langurhali, etc.

I don't see why Ukimori would be an exception.

Rainbow_Dash said:
do we still need unicorn de-impilicated from equine?

Absolutely, since not all unicorns are derived from the equine origin.

Rainbow_Dash said:
so...what needs to be done?

Are we just going to clean up the unicorn hybrids with ukimori

I say we do this

Rainbow_Dash said:
do we still need unicorn de-impilicated from equine?

Not this

TheHuskyK9 said:
Not this

Care to elaborate as to why not?

Cerbrus said:
Care to elaborate as to why not?

Never mind, I changed my position

TheHuskyK9 said:
Never mind, I changed my position

Er, why?

Cerbrus said:
Absolutely, since not all unicorns are derived from the equine origin.

The traditional unicorn is now standardized mythologically as equine. The cervine variant is not a unicorn though etymologically it was the original. If a non-equine creature has an alicorn, it's not by default a unicorn. The Ukimori species is a hybrid of unicorn and bat that has far more bat than unicorn to it, but still has obvious components of it. Unicorn being implied to equine should remain.

ukimori? so we're really going to go with a tag that 1/100 people will recognize and try to standardize it? Why not just maintain our stance that hybrids get a bit of tagging leeway? Isn't that so much simpler?

ippiki_ookami said:
ukimori? so we're really going to go with a tag that 1/100 people will recognize and try to standardize it? Why not just maintain our stance that hybrids get a bit of tagging leeway? Isn't that so much simpler?

Never said not to. Just said Ukimori since it's simpler to refer to it as that rather than unicorn/bat anthro hybrid, heavy on the bat. I'm personally against all the "I'm a pretty snowflake!" races that are just hybrids of others and aren't widely accepted already.

Hybrids are supposed to be tagged with their component parts.
That's why Centaur implies human and equine.
So the ukimori tag is fine, but it still should get the bat and unicorn tags as well.

I will keep the implication then

Rainbow_Dash said:
I will keep the implication then

That means that if you search for "Equine", You will also see all unicorns, just because a character has a single "unicorn horn".

It doesn't matter if anything else about that character is equine. Just because it's for a small part unicorn, a part that's completely unrelated to equines, it gets the equine tag. How does that make sense?

Cerbrus said:
That means that if you search for "Equine", You will also see all unicorns, just because a character has a single "unicorn horn".

It doesn't matter if anything else about that character is equine. Just because it's for a small part unicorn, a part that's completely unrelated to equines, it gets the equine tag. How does that make sense?

It has the equine shape and it's considered by many as a horse with a horn and horses are equine. Part horse = part equine, tag stays.

TheHuskyK9 said:
It has the equine shape and it's considered by many as a horse with a horn and horses are equine. Part horse = part equine, tag stays.

I think you're missing my point.

The unicorn tag is used for hybrids that have a unicorn horn.

So, even if the only thing about the character that's "unicorn", is the horn, it still gets the "Equine" tag because of the "Unicorn -> equine" implication.

This means that characters that are in no way equine, get the "equine" tag, only because they have a unicorn horn.

Does unicorn only apply to horses with one horn? Or things that aren't horses (not narwhals I mean, that would be dumb) with a horn on the front, like some jackalopes.

Moon_Moon said:
Does unicorn only apply to horses with one horn? Or things that aren't horses (not narwhals I mean, that would be dumb) with a horn on the front, like some jackalopes.

It shouldn't, but here's a few examples:
post #174535
post #356897
post #399949

And that's exactly the problem I'm trying to point out.

None of those characters are equines. They just have a unicorn horn (And one of'm has a horsecock, but that doesn't imply equine, either)

Cerbrus said:
I think you're missing my point.

The unicorn tag is used for hybrids that have a unicorn horn.

So, even if the only thing about the character that's "unicorn", is the horn, it still gets the "Equine" tag because of the "Unicorn -> equine" implication.

This means that characters that are in no way equine, get the "equine" tag, only because they have a unicorn horn.

If it's just the horn, it should not get the unicorn tag. It should be tagged with just horn. It needs to look like a unicorn to be tagged as a unicorn. Just adding a horn on a fox doesn't make it a fox unicorn hybrid

TheHuskyK9 said:
If it's just the horn, it should not get the unicorn tag. It should be tagged with just horn. It needs to look like a unicorn to be tagged as a unicorn. Just adding a horn on a fox doesn't make it a fox unicorn hybrid

I completely agree.
People should just stop tagging unicorn "hybrids" as "unicorn", just because of the horn. The hybrid rule is often quotes as reasoning for the excessive tagging, though.

Cerbrus said:
I completely agree.
People should just stop tagging unicorn "hybrids" as "unicorn", just because of the horn. The hybrid rule is often quotes as reasoning for the excessive tagging, though.

Rather than un-implicating anything, we should fix images tagged like that
https://e621.net/post/index/1/hybrid%20horn%20unicorn%20-horse%20-pony

Just wanted to throw in my two cents.

A unicorn is most commonly depicted as a horse with a golden, spiraled horn that can bestow healing powers and, as such, should be lobbed in with the rest of the equine family.

I also agree that how people are tagging unicorns should be fixed.

TheHuskyK9 said:
If it's just the horn, it should not get the unicorn tag. It should be tagged with just horn. It needs to look like a unicorn to be tagged as a unicorn. Just adding a horn on a fox doesn't make it a fox unicorn hybrid

https://e621.net/post/show/174535 is a bat/unicorn hybrid and has hooves as well as the alicorn.

Cerbrus said:
I think you're missing my point.

The unicorn tag is used for hybrids that have a unicorn horn.

So, even if the only thing about the character that's "unicorn", is the horn, it still gets the "Equine" tag because of the "Unicorn -> equine" implication.

This means that characters that are in no way equine, get the "equine" tag, only because they have a unicorn horn.

Are you deliberately being stupid? Equine is the urtag for all equines which includes hybrids. If you want to see horses, search for horses. If you want to only see equiform horses, search horse - hybrid. Same for unicorn- if you want to see ONLY equiform unicorns, search unicorn -hybrid.

In short, stop being a twat and deliberately refusing to use the search system correctly.

To my knowledge, the criteria for unicorn was an equine with a single horn on it's head. For example, you wouldn't tag a Narwhal as a unicorn just because of the horn.

The only exception I could think of would be something non-equine dressed as a unicorn, and even then the costume would be of equine appearance.

SirAntagonist said:
To my knowledge, the criteria for unicorn was an equine with a single horn on it's head. For example, you wouldn't tag a Narwhal as a unicorn just because of the horn.

The only exception I could think of would be something non-equine dressed as a unicorn, and even then the costume would be of equine appearance.

Hybrids are mostly exempt from requiring the same body form- anthropomorphic hybrids even moreso, given that, well, they're anthropomorphic. So long as they have enough visible nature of the creature claimed as a hybrid (for example, a rabbit with no visible changes cannot be claimed to be a dragon hybrid- a rabbit with cat's eyes and flame breath, however, would qualify), usually in combination with source verification of the creatures intended to be hybridized in the character shown, then it's fine to claim hybrid. An alicorn and hooves are traits enough to claim unicorn as a hybrid species.

123easy said:
https://e621.net/post/show/174535 is a bat/unicorn hybrid and has hooves as well as the alicorn.

Not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about if a hybrid only has a horn to prove it's a unicorn, no hooves.

Are you deliberately being stupid? Equine is the urtag for all equines which includes hybrids. If you want to see horses, search for horses. If you want to only see equiform horses, search horse - hybrid. Same for unicorn- if you want to see ONLY equiform unicorns, search unicorn -hybrid.

In short, stop being a twat and deliberately refusing to use the search system correctly.

That was uncalled for

123easy said:
Are you deliberately being stupid? Equine is the urtag for all equines which includes hybrids. If you want to see horses, search for horses. If you want to only see equiform horses, search horse - hybrid. Same for unicorn- if you want to see ONLY equiform unicorns, search unicorn -hybrid.

In short, stop being a twat and deliberately refusing to use the search system correctly.

Now that was uncalled for.
If I search for "Equine", I don't want to see a dog/bat/cat/dragon with a single horn just because it was tagged "Unicorn".

I don't see how that's stupid.

I fully expect to see equine unicorns when searching for equines. Just as I'd expect foxhorses, wolfstallions, snakemares, whatever.

Cerbrus said:
Now that was uncalled for.
If I search for "Equine", I don't want to see a dog/bat/cat/dragon with a single horn just because it was tagged "Unicorn".

I don't see how that's stupid.

I fully expect to see equine unicorns when searching for equines. Just as I'd expect foxhorses, wolfstallions, snakemares, whatever.

We shouldn't change the way tags are implicated to accommodate bad tagging. A dog/bat/cat/dragon with a single horn should not be tagged with unicorn.

Enough with this. Please be civil and discuss the core matter, or I will lock the thread.

SirAntagonist said:
We shouldn't change the way tags are implicated to accommodate bad tagging. A dog/bat/cat/dragon with a single horn should not be tagged with unicorn.

I agree with this sentiment, as unicorn is reserved for equine horned creatures only, whereas the hybrid and horn tag go on the others

I should probably clean up these tags anyway though, such mistag, much woe

Rainbow_Dash said:
I agree with this sentiment, as unicorn is reserved for equine horned creatures only, whereas the hybrid and horn tag go on the others

I should probably clean up these tags anyway though, such mistag, much woe

A hybrid of what, then? Bat hybrid, has hooves and an alicorn... Hybrid of a bat and a unicorn. Pretty simple.

TheHuskyK9 said:
Not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about if a hybrid only has a horn to prove it's a unicorn, no hooves.

That was uncalled for

Traditional depiction of European unicorn usually got divided hooves, not solid like equines - so originally they are NOT related to horses. Lately they became drawn as horse with unusual tail and longer horn..

I can give another example - kirins or quilins.. They are unicorns, usually called "Chinese unicorns". They are not equine in traditional art, more of mix bull and dragon, deer and dragon or lion and dragon with single branched horns (sometimes with deer-like antlers too). They aren't equines for obvious reason - their hooves are divided in two.(though, in 12 kingdoms they looked like European unicorns - but those unicorns also known in China under other name)

This complicates things, so I guess, SIrAntagonist is rightin leaving stuff like that.. usually we think either on European mythological creature or MLP characters, which are equine-related.

123easy said:
A hybrid of what, then? Bat hybrid, has hooves and an alicorn... Hybrid of a bat and a unicorn. Pretty simple.

Hybrid meaning it has a horn but no other equine parts or anything of the sort

Rainbow_Dash said:
Hybrid meaning it has a horn but no other equine parts or anything of the sort

It has hooves AND the alicorn, two traits commonly associated with unicorns, which are two identifying traits of a unicorn. We dub ponies as ponies even when anthropomorphized because we see the similar traits, even though they aren't actually ponies any more; hell, same goes for recognizing characters- see the Fluttershy dragon that has only the colour scheme in common. Cherrypicking this to deal with when so many others are let go because of the obvious understanding is bad practice.

So, the matter at hand is that unicorn should get un-implicated from equine. Based on what I've read, and common mythos, that is not going to be the case.

If you would like to discuss what constitutes a unicorn, please start a new thread and discuss there.