Okay, fun with titles aside :D

SnowWolf said:
Masturbation

This is a simple one for picking up and putting down at any given point in time. Very simple and black-and-white with it's requirements.

Goal: Tidy up fingering, handjob
A poorly chosen set of implications had handjob and fingering both implying masturbation. However, masturbation is something you do to yourself.

This task is most easily accomplished by searching handjob masturbation -solo or fingering masturbation -solo and going through the results.

* Look at each image to be certain of the contents if there's any confusion.
* if you find an image of a character masturbating alone, please tag them with solo
* For images of characters manually stimulating each other, tag mutual masturbation
* If one character is giving the other a reach_around, then it does not count.

Mutual mastubation

Goal: Ensure that everything in the mutual_masturbation tag is both mutual, and masturbation.

* Mutual masturbation is defined as either two (or more) people reaching over and manually--with their hands--pleasuring each other.

# Things that don't count:

* A character being pleasured and the other is not
* A character is being given a handjob while the other is getting oral.
* Using a double ended dildo
* Two characters rubbing their cocks/pussy together, unless both are using hands to touch also. (see: frottage or tribadism)
* A character on their knees pleasuring two others, unless being pleasured by one they are pleasuring.
* Blowjobs.

123Easy said:
Heavily disagree with masturbation being split as masturbation is NOT specifically self-pleasuring, but, "Excitation of one's own or another's genital organs, usually to orgasm, by manual contact or means other than sexual intercourse". If you really feel that self-stimulation should be separate from the main pool of masturbation, tag it self_stimulation or some such similar term.

Mutual masturbation is when two or more characters are masturbating each other, so both (or all three, or however many) are all being pleasured at the same time. A circle jerk would be an example of that. But a blowjob IS masturbation, as is fingering. On the note of mutual masturbation, it does not specifically need to be hands only. Again, so long as it isn't straight sex, it counts- things like dildos, fingers, feet, tongue, etc. all are masturbation, and if say two characters are mutually dildoing the other, it is mutual masturbation still.

RedOctober said:
As for the first: Yes, that is the definition, and usually I'm a stickler for precision. However, in the interest of tag clarity and due to common usage, I'm going to support Snow's decision that things like oral sex and frotterism not be tagged as "masturbation." Unless I don't know what a circle jerk is, I don't think it should be mutual_masturbation; isn't that where a bunch of guys are standing around jerking themselves off? Nothing "mutual" about it, really.

My only thing is that I do agree that use of dildos should be masturbation and mutual_masturbation.

123easy said:
But a blowjob IS masturbation, as is fingering. On the note of mutual masturbation, it does not specifically need to be hands only. Again, so long as it isn't straight sex, it counts- things like dildos, fingers, feet, tongue, etc. all are masturbation...

SnowWolf said:
This may all technically be true (though I have some lesbian friend who would be rather pissed at the concept that they, apparently, can never have sex by your definition..) but the point is that masturbation, as a TAG, refers to stimulation of one's self. we have sex_toy, fingering, cunnilingus, fellatio, 69, double_dildo, and a whole LOST of other tags that describe these other specific acts. but the **ONLY** word for describing the act of self pleasuring is masturbation. you can't say "well just search masturbation solo because what if you want someone jerking off in front of someone else?

123Easy said:
mutual masturbation is when two or more characters are masturbating each other, so both (or all three, or however many) are all being pleasured at the same time. A circle jerk would be an example of that. ... and if say two characters are mutually dildoing the other, it is mutual masturbation still.

SnowWolf said:
hun. Go look through mutual_masturbation for a minute. Go ahead: I'll wait. of the 82 pictures, most of them are this post #124341 post #123794 post #123787. there's nothing mutual going on there.

And by your definitions above, almost EVERY SINGLE gay or lesbian picture counts as mutual masturbation.

This isn't effective tagging, when what people WANT to find are people jerking each other off. NON penetrative intimacy.

In any event, this has been something that has been brought up, argued, and it was decided to be unaliased several months ago, just the tagging had never been finished. So when I asked about projects that needed doing, I put it high on the list. The other... dozen or so will follow as I write them up.

RedOctober said:
My only thing is that I do agree that use of dildos should be masturbation and mutual_masturbation.

SnowWolf said:
It's a slippery thing... use of a dildo on one's self? absolutly. Use of a dildo on someone else? eehh.... that I don't know about.

123Easy said:
The circle jerk I know of is when male or female you get a bunch of people in a circle and fingering/handjobbing the people next to you off.

Also, you have my older post quoted that I editted for clarity immediately after. :P As for frottage: Mutual masturbation.

Snow: If I'd signed up before when that decision was made I'd have argued it to hell and back because it's wrong- Not pegacorn/alicorn wrong, but flat out wrong. Again, if you must have a "masturbating self" tag, self-stimulation. I do agree with you that mutual masturbation is being used wrongly, as it's only when all involved are being pleasured by the others without sex that it can be considered mutual masturbation.

SnowWolf said:
there might honestly already be a tag for something of that nature--masturbating in a group I mean... as for circle jerking, I've heard BOTH definitions. we have circle jerk as a tag, though I'm not sure how well it's used.

People get off on people masturbating. that's why there are so many images of it--and that's without other people's hands being involved. So, yes, I think we MUST have a tag for self-masturbation.. . especially as most people think of it as something that one does to themselves. Using masturbate as a broad term for any kind of non-penetrative sex is... well, it'd be like tagging 'fur'. D:

*loosk at edited post*

In any event, the retagging project still needs doing, so that **IF** we change the tag name, all of the "self stimulation" tags are already easily renamed.

123Easy said:
Agreed on the retagging, disagreed on the "like tagging fur" aspect. After all, don't we have sex as a metatag for all the various forms of sex that we tag? Masturbation could be that metatag, with self_stimulation, mutual_masturbation (tagged correctly) anal_masturbation (as a metatag over both those two beneath masturbation?) underneath it.

So, there's the debate so far.

-shrugs- I say leave it as is. When someone types in "masturbation," what they want is jacking off/fingering, not blow jobs. Even if it's not correct, most people do not think of oral sex as masturbation. They want manual stimulation, where "manual" literally means "by hand" (from Latin: manus-n. hand).

As for your comment about the sex tag in the other thread, it's there but it's actually not used as widely as I thought. That probably ought to be discussed as well, but perhaps not here and now.

If you'd lay out a more specific proposal for how the tags ought to be modified? I might have more solid things to say on the subject than just "I think it works as is."

RedOctober said:
-shrugs- I say leave it as is. When someone types in "masturbation," what they want is jacking off/fingering, not blow jobs. Even if it's not correct, most people do not think of oral sex as masturbation. They want manual stimulation, where "manual" literally means "by hand" (from Latin: manus-n. hand).

this :)

As for your comment about the sex tag in the other thread, it's there but it's actually not used as widely as I thought. That probably ought to be discussed as well, but perhaps not here and now.

There ought to be a whole lot of implications of XXX implies sex.. but that's a topic for another thread :)

If you'd lay out a more specific proposal for how the tags ought to be modified? I might have more solid things to say on the subject than just "I think it works as is."

Also, this. I agree with this :D

Self_stimulation/self_masturbation: fingering/stroking/dildoing of oneself, be it in front of other people or solo. Prefer the former, but later is fine too. Implies masturbation.

mutual_masturbation: gets properly tagged only to pictures that showcase two or more characters stimulating each other. Can contain examples of self_stimulation as well (Herm wanking while someone else fingers hir slit for example). Implies masturbation.

cunnilingus/fellatio/oral_sex/footjob/whatever the tag is for using breasts on a cock should all imply masturbation. (if first two already imply the oral_sex, only it needs the implication.)

Anal_masturbation: needed tag? If so, why so few images? Is it just not being tagged right? if so, get it tagged properly. Would apply to any case where sexual pleasure is derived from non-sex (fingers/feet/tail etc) anal stimulation. Rimming/Anilingus (whichever isn't aliased to the other) would imply this tag. Implies masturbation.

Masturbation treated as the metatag for all forms of non-sex sexual stimulation.

How does that sound?