Seems to me like straight/female art gets way more up votes and stuff around here. Where as I usually end up seeing gay art get at least one or two down votes.

JustFrame said:
Seems to me like straight/female art gets way more up votes and stuff around here. Where as I usually end up seeing gay art get at least one or two down votes.

Problem is, most gay art tends to royally suck.

And not in the gay sense.

E: To be more clear, it's likely the downvotes are happening because of poor quality art. Link a few examples?

GreyMaria said:
Problem is, most gay art tends to royally suck.

And not in the gay sense.

E: To be more clear, it's likely the downvotes are happening because of poor quality art. Link a few examples?

I agree with this. Most of the straight art is just better in terms of quality than the gay art, so the votes are a bit skewed in favor of the straight.

id:195733
id:197464

Picture perfect example.

I really don't think quality is the issue. I see straight art of equal or subpar quality get upvotes a lot more often than gay does. Lesbian art gets MASSIVE boosts.

I can understand it not getting as many upvotes-- Gay art is theoretically less appealing in general. But the downvotes confuse me.

Granted, I can't actually see if something has been downvoted, or who is doing the down voting. If I saw more general down votes on a picture, and it was consistently the same users, I'd certainly think I was correct.

But I HAVE seen a lot of gay art directly on the front page that gets downvoted pretty rapidly.

I also think the scoring system... Doesn't seem fair because of this. I think it would make more sense if every image had a separate good and bad score, not just one overall one.

Edit: Or you could remove the ability to downvote entirely. Downvoting seems like nothing more than an anonymous way of saying 'fuck you I hate this kind of content!' rather than an actual say on quality-- Quality can be measured purely from upvotes. That's why number of favorites is honestly more telling than an image's score, but only privledged accounts and such can see that.

That's a skewed example right there.

Wolfy-Nail is solid quality art, so that's no excuse.

I don't see too many people downvoting and NOT complaining in the comments about how it's gay - if they're stupid enough to do one, they're stupid enough to do both.

Perhaps lovers of gay tend to be less apt to upvote.

Perhaps folks who love breasts and pussy are more populous than folks who love only cock. (From personal observations, this is statistically wrong; it seems like at least 60% of the fandom -must- be at least male bisexual, yaoi fangirls, or hard gay male, with the majority of it being hard gay male...)

I do think we need an up/down vote count, though. Like Youtube/etc.

E: For future reference, simply type something like "post #197464" to link to an image.

GreyMaria said:
That's a skewed example right there.

I'm not saying I have all the stats. I don't. I just said I don't know exactly how many downvotes there are on any given image. An admin might know, and they might be able to tell us. Or the users can just come out and say they are downvoting gay art intentionally, that's why I asked in the first place.

Hell, the example I cited could indicate that people just don't like edits.

But you don't have the stats either, so it's impossible for you to make an assumption like:

Perhaps lovers of gay tend to be less apt to upvote.

We really have no way of knowing, as yet.

I'll also let you in on a little hint: As the fandom has gotten bigger over time, the supposed majority of gays has decreased vastly. Most polls actually tend to indicate heterosexuals being the norm in recent years.

But I think it's reasonable to assume, alone, given the homophobic nature of the human race, and the anonymity of downvoting... That we have SOME users who are just mass-downvoting gay art because 'god hates fags.'

And in general I don't like this because it gives people the opportunity to skew things based on retarded precedents. I think scores should reflect quality, not content. The reason is because it is statistical feedback, and feedback is mainly used by artists on a site like this to determine the quality of their own work.

The only thing that everyone else uses it for is to measure order:score

And before you mention that the same thing might be happening to straight art-- It really would only reinforce what I'm saying. I would be pissed off if people voted down straight art just because it's straight as well. And I wouldn't be surprised if that happens too.

Maybe some straight people are just dicks :B Whoop, there I go thinking about that again-

In all seriousness, maybe we still haven't gotten past the point of rampant homophobia. And I can honestly say I'm embarrassed when I can provide a very effective "cumulative" example. Coughdemetriathepinkyoshicough.

Who cares.
Some people even downvote just because of who posted it. Trying to pinpoint what makes people vote on what is an utter waste of time.

ippiki_ookami said:
Who cares.

The reason is because it is statistical feedback, and feedback is mainly used by artists on a site like this to determine the quality of their own work.

ippiki_ookami said:
Who cares.
Some people even downvote just because of who posted it. Trying to pinpoint what makes people vote on what is an utter waste of time.

He's just jaded because he's had one too many dickwads get buttmad at him and downvote the many, many pictures he's posted in a weirdo vain effort to spite him.

It always seemed to me that furry community is a lot more open to gay/bi art, so I wouldn't know about that...

..oh wait, it's already resolved? *slowpoke

Oooh, I'll be sure to start randomly downvoting gay images more often. :3

JustFrame said:
The reason is because it is statistical feedback, and feedback is mainly used by artists on a site like this to determine the quality of their own work.

Well, that's a pretty bad metric if they're looking to gauge their own technical quality. If they want feedback on technique, they should ask fellow artists or specifically solicit critiques.

It's only a slightly less bad metric if they're looking for gauge the popularity of their work within any given niche they're looking at.

My understanding is that vote data isn't even kept, so there's no way to generate a report of who's voting for what. By that same limitation, there's nothing stopping a person from voting multiple times on a post, skewing the results.

The moral of the story is: Don't use upvotes to determine technical merit or skill. Don't even use them to determine what your audience likes. If you want to know what your audience likes, then ask them directly.

ikdind said:
there's nothing stopping a person from voting multiple times on a post, skewing the results.

I'm sure you can only vote on an image once now.

Raiden_Gekkou said:
I'm sure you can only vote on an image once now.

Huh. So it would appear. I stand corrected. I still think votes are a bad metric for skill, though.

Edit: To answer the original question, no. I don't downvote stuff because of the content. I have a rather extensive blacklist for that purpose.

ikdind said:
Huh. So it would appear. I stand corrected. I still think votes are a bad metric for skill, though.

They are, as people downvote fetishes or shows/games that they don't like. Remember Lupine Assassin anyone?

Or dear. You had to actually say it. Quick! You can still edit your post before the firestorm starts up again! :P

Some of the artists he commissioned made some good pictures, but people downvoted because fuckwad.

ikdind said:words

Although you can perform a search that shows what posts were upvoted/downvoted by a user, the comments section is the best place to ask for an honest critique on your art.

Also you can use this search (order:score) to see what has the most upvotes. Notice how there are gay pics mixed in. I'd say given that most users prefer searching for females, this search shows it's about even how much gay art is upvoted as well.

One last thing to think about. People are incredibly biased (myself included) and often only hit that vote button if it's really well made/within their kink group or it utterly disgusts/horrifies them.

ikdind said:
The moral of the story is: Don't use upvotes to determine technical merit or skill. Don't even use them to determine what your audience likes. If you want to know what your audience likes, then ask them directly.

Believe it or not, people barely ever are willing to give crits or feedback. If they do they're frequently useless as dust, and it comes in such small doses it's hardly anything to gauge off of.

Stuff like score numbers is pretty useful for artists because it lets them gauge general interest. And for some reason the audience seems more willing to give it to you. I think it's because if an artist asks for crit, their audience feels like they have no reason to give it to you if they get nothing in return, or they just feel like they don't have the knowledge to crit. It also requires more thought to give crit than a simple thing like 'yes i like this' or 'no i dont'

Yes, it's not perfect. But it works in the same way that youtubers and others like using scoring systems. And it's something.

Comments on this site are rarely about the technical skill of the artwork presented. If they are it's usually just senseless bashing that gets downvoted.

What I don't get is if the scoring system is so useless, why do we have it? If it's good for nothing than we could literally change it in any way and it has no chance of making it worse than it already is.

Hell, you can't even see number of favorites with a standard account. When an artist posts something and can't see that they've had 30+ people favorite it, but it only has a score of 2, they get confused. They assume people don't like their work, or that no one noticed it. And they decide to not post here any more.

I think I've completely veered off my original point here, and am just getting in a rant about the scoring system in general. But I think it's pretty broken.

JustFrame said:

Look at forum #34399. If you ask for an in-depth critique, people will give it, mixed with a little bashing, mind you because we are on the Internet. I think the bashing was also rightly distributed because the user started a thread on it and was being an "attention whore" so I'd say leave it in the comments.

Well, I had a much longer post which offered far more support for my position that the scoring system is near-useless for an artist's purposes. I decided to trim it down because I didn't want a wall of text, and I wasn't aware that the scoring system had been changed to remove multiple-voting (which I felt was it's greatest weakness).

A person can still stuff that ballot with multiple accounts, but that's at least trivially harder and probably limited to the real nutters who are going to draw the ire of the admins and get banned before they can cause too much harm.

People aren't actively solicited for votes, either, so it's only capturing people who both find it and care to use it.

The population of people who do care include nutters, religious fanatics, homophobes, pony-haters, fur-haters, trolls who downvote everything, trolls who downvote everything with a positive score, trolls who downvote everything with a given tag, and real-life honest-to-God trolls from Sweden, or Skyrim, or wherever. Plus some unknown population of reasonable people; we have no idea if they're the majority but it makes us feel better when we assume such.

But I don't know if E6 would be a better place if we nagged people for votes or worked harder to establish a person's identity to prevent ballot-stuffing.

I do think E6 would be a better community for connecting artists and their fans if there were a way to favorite an artist account, the way FA allows someone to "watch" an account. Maybe that's on its way in some fashion. Or maybe a way to send a blip to someone from their profile page, that shows up on their profile page, like shouts on FA. Or generally more community-oriented, connection-making, people-exchanging-words features in general.

Of course, none of that was the original purpose behind E6, from what I recall. But times change, administrations change, and as long as we can maintain a well-tagged stream of quality work, I'm all for adding more stuff to the site that caters towards community building.

When you put @username: blip goes here, as your blip, it'll show up on their profile page under blips. Also,

Rainbow_Slash said:
Look at forum #34399. If you ask for an in-depth critique, people will give it, mixed with a little bashing, mind you because we are on the Internet. I think the bashing was also rightly distributed because the user started a thread on it and was being an "attention whore" so I'd say leave it in the comments.

I honestly have asked for crit in comments and never gotten it, so maybe I'm bias but I don't buy that.

As for your forum post, that guy got an awful reception for the most part, whether he deserved it or not. It's a terrible example and shows me that artists should definitely NOT be asking for crit here.

Crit only goes so far anyway. I'm a semi-competent artist and I found that the better I got, the less crit became helpful. Most art crit on the internet is just basic tips. The real techniques are learned by constant practice and one's personal style development, which no one can teach you via crit. But that doesn't mean I never need -feedback-

Sometimes people just want to know if people liked their stuff or not. The only thing I find useful for that on this site is fav count. Everything else is pretty much useless.

I don't think a dangerous precedent is set by improving the feedback system for artists here. It will make them want to post more, and it will drive traffic to the site.

So that's about all I have left to say. Time for a nap.

Not if it aint terribly or inanatomically drawn.

AbsebaroKoon said:
Does anybody remember UltravioletMoonRay?
He/she asked for critic and gets the boot because he/she got butthurt because of the harsh criticism given. Though the art shows no sexual contact, the down votes comes shortly but not that much.

That's why he bitched?
I think you're giving him too much credit, and actually giving his whining some validation.

No

It was like Ippiki had said at the beginning, they either get showered in compliments or lash out at criticism. I think they banned him because he was garnering attention and telling people to f off if they wouldn't play his game. Also the pure flame bait topics he made were getting people to fight.

Rainbow_Slash said:
It was like Ippiki had said at the beginning, they either get showered in compliments or lash out at criticism. I think they banned him because he was garnering attention and telling people to f off if they wouldn't play his game. Also the pure flame bait topics he made were getting people to fight.

He also made retard threads and seemed drunk half the time.

JustFrame said:
Seems to me like straight/female art gets way more up votes and stuff around here. Where as I usually end up seeing gay art get at least one or two down votes.

i don't discriminate. I downvote em all equally.

I tend to avoid downvoting things unless I think they're especially bad.

There aren't too many instances where you see a negative score on an ima-...
No. I am so, so wrong. The chances of seeing a negative score can be almost certain.

Anyway, my view is that the community, or at least those that vote, tend to like heterosexual material over homosexual. You may have also encountered a slight trend of negativity in whatever section of posts.

Another possible explanation stated before me is that the (good) artists out there are more experienced or inclined to draw straight art. With straight art comes variety, more so than gay art can provide (arguably). New artists may try to add more gay art to the pool and find themselves surrounded by good quality work compared to their less experienced work.

The chances of this though are slim. The balance between the two sexualities I presume are pretty close. Perhaps it may be that you are a little critical of straight art?

I'm pretty apathetic when it comes to voting on pictures. Like JustFrame said in one comment, the system is next to useless. If I like a picture enough to save it, then how many votes it has doesn't really matter.

But as for the whole "straight pics vs. gay pics" argument that seems to be running beneath the surface here...well...I got nothing to say. I mean, if one is more popular than the other, then that's just how it is. Granted, I do have a pair of breasts and a dick freely swinging around above my post, so things look even to me. Classless, but even. :V

down voting something for such a stpid reason does nothing but make you look retarded.

Muttzilla said:
down voting something for such a stpid reason does nothing but make you look retarded.

How? User votes aren't public.

ippiki_ookami said:
How? User votes aren't public.

exactly. down voting something just to be a douche when no one will know you did it ever? Whats the point of doing something so stupid? Other than being a total pussy who is too scared to diss something in a public setting ie forums or messages and then get chewed out over it. :P

Muttzilla said:
exactly. down voting something just to be a douche when no one will know you did it ever? Whats the point of doing something so stupid? Other than being a total pussy who is too scared to diss something in a public setting ie forums or messages and then get chewed out over it. :P

So downvoting images you don't like makes you a pussy. Got it.

ippiki_ookami said:
So downvoting images you don't like makes you a pussy. Got it.

no downvoting random images for being either gay or straight makes you a pussy. and a moron, It's like I always say, Sack up and talk some good shit out loud or just sit there quiet like a good pup because I have no time for stupid people.

Muttzilla said:
just sit there quiet like a good pup

lel

It's not like we are voting for the next world power here. I rarely vote as it is and when I do it's almost always based on artistic quality and emotional impact. That's my opinion and there are no rules on voting other than spam voting.

If you like it, vote up, if you don't like it, vote down. Biased or not it's just a silly little number next to a post.

Muttzilla said:
quiet like a good pup

You're dumb, and have a chip on your shoulder; enough to be a dick to an admin who, despite having shown an admirable amount of patience, has proven that he doesn't put up with dumb shit.
I'm considering this a deathwish. Or a...banwish, rather.

However, I lol'd at your stupidity, heartily.

Actini said:
You're dumb, and have a chip on your shoulder; enough to be a dick to an admin who, despite having shown an admirable amount of patience, has proven that he doesn't put up with dumb shit.
I'm considering this a deathwish. Or a...banwish, rather.

However, I lol'd at your stupidity, heartily.

How EXACTLY am I being a dick to an admin? If you would actually read comments before running your mouth like a moron you would realise that I never even directed a single insult at any of the admins, Haven't you gotten yourself in trouble MULTIPLE times over running your mouth already? Tsk tsk, Shame on you.

Alright let's calm down and try to revert back to the main topic. Fighting and hurling insults only makes us run in circles.

Question is, what is the voting system for if not to use at our disposal and vote as we please, biased or not?

ippiki_ookami said:
How? User votes aren't public.

They kinda are.

Muttzilla said:
How EXACTLY am I being a dick to an admin?

You told him you didn't have time for stupid people (implying him).

Now, ironically, I'm sure ippiki has no time for stupid people like you.

ippiki_ookami said:
How? User votes aren't public.

http://e621.net/post?tags=votedup%3Aippiki_ookami
http://e621.net/post?tags=voteddown%3Aippiki_ookami

Adrian_Blazevic said:
http://e621.net/post?tags=votedup%3Aippiki_ookami
http://e621.net/post?tags=voteddown%3Aippiki_ookami

...Clever girl.

Interesting. So I can prove beyond all doubt that I have never downvoted an image for being gay (since the tracking went into place), because none of the images I've downvoted even include the tag.

Guess that means my blacklist works pretty well.

Adrian_Blazevic said:
http://e621.net/post?tags=votedup%3Aippiki_ookami
http://e621.net/post?tags=voteddown%3Aippiki_ookami

well fancy that

http://e621.net/post?tags=voteddown%3Ahg3300

Hmmm...I need to start downvoting when I don't like an image. It seems I've only done it 6 times. And 5 of em look like accidents or when I was bitching about MLP.

I have never voted anything down, and I can't for the life of me understand why people mass-downvote certain types of images. Would it not be easier to blacklist whatever you don't want to see?

Voting in general is so useless for this site. Too many different people here, with far too many different opinions, and the spread of those opinions is so wide it may as well be the difference between positive infinity and negative infinity.
It couldn't possibly used as a reliable content filter for anyone on the site, and I don't see why most people would bother voting on things anyways, it has no real use.

I do actually. I make a point to waste my time downvoting a subject I have no interest in. it's fun to take the effort doing something so trivial and petty, like a nice intermission between looking for porn.

Adrian_Blazevic said:
http://e621.net/post?tags=votedup%3Aippiki_ookami
http://e621.net/post?tags=voteddown%3Aippiki_ookami

I lawled. but srsly I don't waste a downvote just cuz it doesn't meet my orientational(is that a word[aw who cares]) preferences. If i find it just plain bad in general I will downvote. tbh I don't really vote at all in posts tagged gay.

I downvote all non-scat images. Just to make scores of scat images higher.

And yes, that includes downvoting all gay art. Sorry for that.

FeralBeast said:
I downvote all non-scat images. Just to make scores of scat images higher.

And yes, that includes downvoting all gay art. Sorry for that.

I'll make a note to downvote fetishes I dislike...

...speaking of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0la5DBtOVNI

I just want to give my stock-standard advice for people to stop comparing interfetish votes. Anyone who categorically votes down a fetish... isn't affecting the quality of the voting system within that fetish. They're only impacting the relative weights of different fetishes.

For users who search order:score, this pushes generally palatable stuff to the front of searches and specialist stuff to the back. That effectively improves the search result quality. If they want the specialist stuff, they'll search for them specifically.

In reference to the original question, I cant speak for the ethic of downvoting material if you're not part of the intended audience, however I did notice that in the most recent Corruption of Champions post, all the comments calling for more gay variation have been downvoted to being hidden. :V

Now that DOES strike me as unfair.

Lets make this clear once and for all. The "Voting" System here is not about fairness, or even quality. Its about how many of the viewers who view "W" like {X} or Dislike {Y} picture {Z}. Where as the amount of X and Y are purely determined by W liking or disliking Z weather or not the content is or is not "good". The votes are based purely on personal reaction, and not to be taken as an indicator of quality. Ever. Case and point http://www.e621.net/post/show/141318/ has one of the lowest ratings on the entire site, whiel the picture itself is not necessarily bad, at least Y over X voted for Z.

Princess_Celestia said:
Lets make this clear once and for all. The "Voting" System here is not about fairness, or even quality. ... The votes are based purely on personal reaction ...

Thaaaaank you. Between this and the great Jurassic Park allusion (that I'm not sure anyone noticed), I'm starting to like this admin. :)

(Not that I don't like the others, mind you!)

I won't be happy until we get:
Upvotes
Downvotes
Percentage up/down
Weighted percentage taking into account the up/down votes of other images with similar trending tags
A graph plotting all of the above against time since post
"Quality score" comparing percent up/down against the poster's other posted images
"Quality score" comparing percent up/down against the artist's other images
A full list of all voters with detailed reasons why they voted up/down
A new coffee machine in the break room, the one we have produces beverage of undesirable taste

I simply shall not settle for anything less!

trevorlanch said:
A new coffee machine in the break room, the one we have produces beverage of undesirable taste

That coffee machine is my friend, we aren't replacing it.

Did someone say coffee machine?

JustFrame said:
Seems to me like straight/female art gets way more up votes and stuff around here. Where as I usually end up seeing gay art get at least one or two down votes.

Never really noticed a trend, since most of the gay/male solo art do have high scores (post #203973, post #160474)

But after watching the scores fluctuate on post #220970, and post #163091 (which is similar to post #147818,albeit with cats), there may be some people out there that probably just don't like seeing gay/solo male art and refuse to blacklist it, for some reason

This is why I want to see separate votes "up" and "down". I believe it can be done, because the gallery remembers who has voted. It would be much more fair.