DAYUM

Tweakdog is freaking out.

DVNC said:
Tweakdog is freaking out.

cocane is a hell of a drug.

DVNC said:
Tweakdog is freaking out.

chihuahuas are weird.

DVNC said:
Tweakdog is freaking out.

Well the areas bustling with naughty activity and he's shy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffQmb-cNFuk

DAAAAAAAAMMMMMNNNNNNNNNN. Is this 3d animated or drawn? or both? I can't actually tell. Is there a colored version? :)

so unlike most animators, he keeps the framerate consistent, which is how it should be.
what he should watch out for is to not let certain body parts stay in one place. it breaks the whole sigth, since it would be pretty impossible to keep the lower legs and feet, and then even the hips totally moveless like that. making them move just slightly is really not hard, since the smaller it moves, the easier it is to tell if it moves the wrong way or not, and easier for the viewer to ignore errors, even if it has them.

the other thing which he really should just not do, is the camera panning at the start. it breaks the whole three dimensional feel, since the view moves, but the perspective of the characters and objects dont. drawing them from a different perspective every frame just so there can be a camera panning would be too much effort for too little reward.
other thing he should pay attention to are the shines in the eyes and whatever surfaces, which should also move according to which part of the surface currently faces the light source while moving.
and if he wanted to make it really realistic, he could double the framerate by just drawing the inbetweens between every frame. it would take time, but no actual thinking or anything required.

anyway, he still already animates better than most people, so i hope he will take the extra time and effort to make things worth it even more

So much yes in one picture o3o

excellent but now I need more of this

I like this a lot, cannot wait to see more!

damn this is nice love it <3

Wow, so this is what he's been up to! I thought he may have been on hiatus or something.

meow-meow said:
so unlike most animators, he keeps the framerate consistent, which is how it should be.
what he should watch out for is to not let certain body parts stay in one place. it breaks the whole sigth, since it would be pretty impossible to keep the lower legs and feet, and then even the hips totally moveless like that. making them move just slightly is really not hard, since the smaller it moves, the easier it is to tell if it moves the wrong way or not, and easier for the viewer to ignore errors, even if it has them.

the other thing which he really should just not do, is the camera panning at the start. it breaks the whole three dimensional feel, since the view moves, but the perspective of the characters and objects dont. drawing them from a different perspective every frame just so there can be a camera panning would be too much effort for too little reward.
other thing he should pay attention to are the shines in the eyes and whatever surfaces, which should also move according to which part of the surface currently faces the light source while moving.
and if he wanted to make it really realistic, he could double the framerate by just drawing the inbetweens between every frame. it would take time, but no actual thinking or anything required.

anyway, he still already animates better than most people, so i hope he will take the extra time and effort to make things worth it even more

Most animators work with varying frame rates because it's practical and useful. I'm fairly confident that this animation has varying frame rates without you noticing.

Hold-frame on static limbs/characters is a method of stretching time budget to where it counts, this is usually a smart move especially for a 1-animator project. While a little bit of movement would make it more lively, it is not a make-or-break creative decision. Also, it 'is' hard to make characters move slightly in hand-drawn animation, it requires a lot of draftsmanship consistency, as well as many many extra drawings unlike motion tweens or puppet animation.

I entirely disagree with your opinion on the parallax at the start. camera rotation is the killer of 3d illusion, panning generally isnt. If anything, the speed differences of the different levels in the panning characters show the viewer how close and far away the characters are without having to specifically draw their feet on the the floor.

The specular highlight looks just fine. The head isnt doing massive rotations or spatial changes, so the specular highlights wont be moving much either.

Inbetweens can take a hell of a lot of time, and they do require thinking and skill to do properly. Bad inbetweens can actually make animation worse too. Seeing as this animation is 32 seconds long (probably 15seconds if the loops are cut back) inbetweening from 12fps to 24fps would be 12 additional drawings per second, or 180 drawings (not including the fact that there are multiple characters in every shot, and tone work.) If every drawing were completed in 10 minutes for example... that'd be 1800 minutes to double the inbetweens, or 30 hours of work.

Woof. Yes please daddy.

FuzzAmorous said:
Most animators work with varying frame rates because it's practical and useful. I'm fairly confident that this animation has varying frame rates without you noticing.

cant see how it would be useful in any way. varying frame rate makes the animation look choppy, and breaks any fluidity of movement. it looks exactly like if you recorded someone moving, and instead of telling them to move slower in some parts, you would make some frames last double the amount of time, which would make it look like the recording freezes and resumes.
if you want something to go from 1 to 5 in 10 steps, instead of 1 to 10, the logical thing is not making it increase with 1 every two steps, but increase with half every step.

also, i doubt this has varied framerates. maybe the characters at the start have lower framerate, but their animation look way worse too.

FuzzAmorous said:
Hold-frame on static limbs/characters is a method of stretching time budget to where it counts, this is usually a smart move especially for a 1-animator project. While a little bit of movement would make it more lively, it is not a make-or-break creative decision. Also, it 'is' hard to make characters move slightly in hand-drawn animation, it requires a lot of draftsmanship consistency, as well as many many extra drawings unlike motion tweens or puppet animation.

if he already took the time and effort to draw this many frames with this big movements, drawing really minimal movements for body parts to not look static is really not what he should be saving on. making everything as static as a statue except her head and neck could also be "stretching time budget", but it would still look way worse.
drawing really slight movements is way easier, since you can clearly see if it moves the wrong way or not. if a body part does a 90 degree rotation in two frames, you either have to do calculations to make sure it looks right, or really complex guide lines. or else you can depend on just looking at it and trying to decide if it looks good.
but if its slight movement, you can clearly see how each line moves compared to the previous frame, if its in the right direction, with the right amount of movement, etc.

FuzzAmorous said:
I entirely disagree with your opinion on the parallax at the start. camera rotation is the killer of 3d illusion, panning generally isnt. If anything, the speed differences of the different levels in the panning characters show the viewer how close and far away the characters are without having to specifically draw their feet on the the floor.

panning without changing the perspective of the characters breaks the whole 3d look. if you pan your head from a side of an object to its other side, you wont be still seeing the side you started from, even if you dont rotate your head. the whole point of 3d look is defining the distance of objects and their different parts in space compared to the viewpoint.
if the tip of the nose of the dog guy doesnt move faster than his eyes while the view is panning, it means they are on the exact same distance, which makes him look like a flat cardboard cut-out.
the distance of the characters could be shown by basically anything else, including small movements that could show the overall distance, not just the distance difference in body parts. plus defining distance doesnt require animation in the first place

FuzzAmorous said:
The specular highlight looks just fine. The head isnt doing massive rotations or spatial changes, so the specular highlights wont be moving much either.

even though its not moving that much, the lighting should still change to show that the light from above hits the eyes on a different part of the surface when it moves. the head rotates up and down, and if you try the same thing in real life with a no closer light source than the sun, you can see that even if you move slightly, the sun will still reflect in the part of the eye that faces it, which is in a different place as you moved.
you can try with a mirror or glass/marble ball, and see how even if you move it just a little, the sun will reflect in a different place.
the problem is that he drew the reflection as like a part of the iris/pupil, and moves with them when the eye rotates/moves.

FuzzAmorous said:
Inbetweens can take a hell of a lot of time, and they do require thinking and skill to do properly. Bad inbetweens can actually make animation worse too. Seeing as this animation is 32 seconds long (probably 15seconds if the loops are cut back) inbetweening from 12fps to 24fps would be 12 additional drawings per second, or 180 drawings (not including the fact that there are multiple characters in every shot, and tone work.) If every drawing were completed in 10 minutes for example... that'd be 1800 minutes to double the inbetweens, or 30 hours of work.

it shouldnt take more thinking than putting a line exactly between the lines on the two frames you do one inbetween.
you turn on the onion skin, and either draw or just copy-paste and morph the line to be exactly between the two shown. i think there are even programs that can do that.
i bet he spent at least a whole month doing this, so i think even two more days of work would worth it to make it way better, but its basically 5 loops which are probably less than 10 frames long and an ending, so it would probably take even less time.

why i wrote all this is because he seems to be willing to get better, and trying to refute the usefulness of any improvement wont help him. he probably wont see anything i wrote, but i hope he will have the.. whatever the word is, to improve anyway.

cant see how it would be useful in any way. varying frame rate makes the animation look choppy, and breaks any fluidity of movement. it looks exactly like if you recorded someone moving, and instead of telling them to move slower in some parts, you would make some frames last double the amount of time, which would make it look like the recording freezes and resumes.
if you want something to go from 1 to 5 in 10 steps, instead of 1 to 10, the logical thing is not making it increase with 1 every two steps, but increase with half every step.

also, i doubt this has varied framerates. maybe the characters at the start have lower framerate, but their animation look way worse too.

The only way for me to thoroughly explain this is to set up a powerpoint with examples, demos, frame by frames, and lecture notes to teach you when and how varying framerates are effective, practical and useful, but seeing as that'd take hours to make, I'll settle for an agree-to-disagree here. I'll drop a part of an animation presentation though https://youtu.be/IOjReQnpVXY?t=4m31s keep an ear out for the term "frame modulation."

if he already took the time and effort to draw this many frames with this big movements, drawing really minimal movements for body parts to not look static is really not what he should be saving on. making everything as static as a statue except her head and neck could also be "stretching time budget", but it would still look way worse.
drawing really slight movements is way easier, since you can clearly see if it moves the wrong way or not. if a body part does a 90 degree rotation in two frames, you either have to do calculations to make sure it looks right, or really complex guide lines. or else you can depend on just looking at it and trying to decide if it looks good.
but if its slight movement, you can clearly see how each line moves compared to the previous frame, if its in the right direction, with the right amount of movement, etc.

slight movements are not always easier than dramatic movements, i feel like you ignored my past comment so let me clarify; in 2d, you do not get any movement for free. A head turning gently for 2 seconds is usually going to be twice as much work as a head turning dramatically for 1 second, because timelength often determines the workload more than how big/small the movement is. 24 drawings usually take more time to do than 12 drawings of relatively the same subject. This is also why many cartoons have adapted a 'snappy timing' to their motions, as a way to conserve the inbetween count without viewers noticing. Same case with hold-frames.

panning without changing the perspective of the characters breaks the whole 3d look. if you pan your head from a side of an object to its other side, you wont be still seeing the side you started from, even if you dont rotate your head. the whole point of 3d look is defining the distance of objects and their different parts in space compared to the viewpoint.
if the tip of the nose of the dog guy doesnt move faster than his eyes while the view is panning, it means they are on the exact same distance, which makes him look like a flat cardboard cut-out.
the distance of the characters could be shown by basically anything else, including small movements that could show the overall distance, not just the distance difference in body parts. plus defining distance doesnt require animation in the first place

https://imgur.com/a/TDbNE

I'm not gonna argue that camera moves change the perspective of things on scene, but I am gonna say that with small camera panning, the perspective change is almost unnoticeable. Perfectly accurate smooth animation 24/7 is achievable in large cinematic team productions but it's icing on the cake. This is more a project-scope choice than a problem that needs to be fixed. Small animation teams put polished animation where it counts, and they cut back on animation where its not as important... thats how they survive.

even though its not moving that much, the lighting should still change to show that the light from above hits the eyes on a different part of the surface when it moves. the head rotates up and down, and if you try the same thing in real life with a no closer light source than the sun, you can see that even if you move slightly, the sun will still reflect in the part of the eye that faces it, which is in a different place as you moved.
you can try with a mirror or glass/marble ball, and see how even if you move it just a little, the sun will reflect in a different place.
the problem is that he drew the reflection as like a part of the iris/pupil, and moves with them when the eye rotates/moves.

care to give an example draw over?

it shouldnt take more thinking than putting a line exactly between the lines on the two frames you do one inbetween.
you turn on the onion skin, and either draw or just copy-paste and morph the line to be exactly between the two shown. i think there are even programs that can do that.
i bet he spent at least a whole month doing this, so i think even two more days of work would worth it to make it way better, but its basically 5 loops which are probably less than 10 frames long and an ending, so it would probably take even less time.

There's a lot that can go wrong in inbetweens, but again its a thing you'd have to experience or be taught about to understand, if you're interested in the nuances of the job, check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86tqKH3zxuM and https://youtu.be/0rp3zXBEhCE

chihuahua (5 pieces);
3 jitter loops + 2 breakdown pop-transitions

smoking doggo (2 pieces);
4 frame exhale + 7 frame smoke fx

cat/bigdoggo (10 pieces);
scene1-oral loop, scene2- oral loop, head-grab transition animation, facefuck loop, scene3- facefuck loop, deepthroat press (transition animation) cockthrob loop, dick pullout transition, cumshot in mouth, swallow.

This project has a lot more going on than you give it credit for, and inbetweening takes a lot more time and skill than you give credit for.

why i wrote all this is because he seems to be willing to get better, and trying to refute the usefulness of any improvement wont help him. he probably wont see anything i wrote, but i hope he will have the.. whatever the word is, to improve anyway.

There is such a thing as discarding bad advice and ill-informed opinion.

In sum for the above. Don't over-analyze things, just enjoy.

AceSeville said:
cocane is a hell of a drug.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=weMpv14cW9U

FuzzAmorous said:
A head turning gently for 2 seconds is usually going to be twice as much work as a head turning dramatically for 1 second, because timelength often determines the workload more than how big/small the movement is.

so you mean basically tracing the previous frame, but then moving some lines by a few pixels is as hard as drawing an entirely different pose? it might be a pretty big problem if you consider every frame a different drawing rather than a slight manipulation of the previous, and/or the inbetweens of two end points of a motion. the more difference in whatever two adjacent frames depict, the more useless onion skin also is.

FuzzAmorous said:
https://imgur.com/a/TDbNE

I'm not gonna argue that camera moves change the perspective of things on scene, but I am gonna say that with small camera panning, the perspective change is almost unnoticeable. Perfectly accurate smooth animation 24/7 is achievable in large cinematic team productions but it's icing on the cake. This is more a project-scope choice than a problem that needs to be fixed. Small animation teams put polished animation where it counts, and they cut back on animation where its not as important... thats how they survive.

nothing is unnoticable, even if people cant tell exactly whats wrong, it still looks wrong. if something tastes bad, and you cant tell exactly why, it will still taste bad. plus this really cant be considered small panning when it lasts for about 5 seconds, and you can clearly see that no character changes perspective, no matter how far or close they are.
also, you are assuming he wants or needs to "cut back on animation" and produce faster but with less quality.
if he wanted to make money the easiest way, he wouldnt have to do animations in the first place. i remember him getting more than a thousand dollars for a single YCH auction. it wont get much easier than that.
anyways, leaving it like this is not a shortcut that costs less time for the same animation, it would leave his animations look unfinished. im sure most people would want to rather see quality over quantity, and would rather want him to finish the animation instead of adding things like the intro. especially since they are already asking for a version without it at the webm version.

FuzzAmorous said:
care to give an example draw over?

i dont really like to screw with others' things, unless i take the time to fix every problem i had with them, so it worths doing it and posting it. and since this is called "v1", he might be doing it on his own anyway, which is how it should be.

the problem is that the reflection is too static relative to the iris/pupil. the eyes' direction stays towards the dog's face, so they slightly move up when the head rotates downward, but that doesnt mean it moves in a way, or enough, that the reflection should stay in the same place on it.
imagine the eye as a spherical mirror. the placement of the reflection should depend on the position of the eye compared to the lightsource, and the position of the eye compared to the viewpoint, of which, both moves.
go outside with a marble ball or something, move it in front of your face, and see how the reflection of the sun moves on its surface, especially if you do it as close as at the end of this animation.
i would also remove its outline, since it makes it look like part of the eye. the shine on the dick doesnt have outline either

FuzzAmorous said:
There's a lot that can go wrong in inbetweens, but again its a thing you'd have to experience or be taught about to understand, if you're interested in the nuances of the job, check out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86tqKH3zxuM and https://youtu.be/0rp3zXBEhCE

drawing inbetweens is basically tweening manually. drawing or moving a line between two onion skin lines is not much harder than a program doing it for you, it just takes more time. again, the closer the onion skin lines, the easier it is, so the higher the framerate, the easier it is to animate AND the more fluid the animation is.
the hardest part of animating is the initial drawing, which needs to look exactly like a 3d shape, with correct shape definition, correct distance, correct perspective, not even mentioning anatomy, weight of parts, etc. otherwise it cant be animated correctly, or at least will look deformed even if the animation is good.
after that, moving the lines by a certain amount is way easier, and even if you screw it up, changing the amount or way of movement is really easy for just one line at a time.
and after that, simply moving the lines between their next and previous position is almost un-doingwrong-able.
the only way to screw it up unintentionally, is moving the wrong line.

FuzzAmorous said:
chihuahua (5 pieces);
3 jitter loops + 2 breakdown pop-transitions

smoking doggo (2 pieces);
4 frame exhale + 7 frame smoke fx

cat/bigdoggo (10 pieces);
scene1-oral loop, scene2- oral loop, head-grab transition animation, facefuck loop, scene3- facefuck loop, deepthroat press (transition animation) cockthrob loop, dick pullout transition, cumshot in mouth, swallow.

This project has a lot more going on than you give it credit for, and inbetweening takes a lot more time and skill than you give credit for.

the things i didnt list either have really few frames, or not much moves at all, like chihuahua, smoking doggo, head-grab transition animation (8 frames, in 2 first frames not much moves at all, in only last 3 frames can his whole hand and most of lower arm be seen, and basically only his hand/arm moves during it anyway), deepthroat press, cockthrob loop (not much moves at all, still listed it)

i dont want to discredit him, or how to say, i just dont want him to search for excuses and overestimate the time and effort needed to improve an animation. all the hardest parts of animating are already done here, so not taking the extra time/effort to build on it and finish it would be a waste.

FuzzAmorous said:
There is such a thing as discarding bad advice and ill-informed opinion.

so everything i said is bad advice and ill-informed, even the ones he already did in the animation, like consistent frame-rate. so you would rather advice him to delete frames and decrease framerate in parts, since that would improve the animation more than what i mentioned