The second panel. Seems like American politics are even influencing Pokemon now.

No Zoroark, no play. Not that I was gonna buy this lazy garbage in the first place.

Darkrenard said:
No Zoroark, no play. Not that I was gonna buy this lazy garbage in the first place.

In their defense, they have to pump out a new Pokemon game every year (including remakes), so their deadlines are likely very strict with little room for delays. Adding every Pokemon in existence might've been a bad use of time for them, especially since this is their first time making a Gen for a home console.

Sceptile is disguised as Charizard

The irony

Darkrenard said:
No Zoroark, no play. Not that I was gonna buy this lazy garbage in the first place.

Zoroark is going to be in given it track record

CosmicMewtwo said:
In their defense, they have to pump out a new Pokemon game every year (including remakes), so their deadlines are likely very strict with little room for delays. Adding every Pokemon in existence might've been a bad use of time for them, especially since this is their first time making a Gen for a home console.

I'd think that actual friggin Pokemon would be first priority for a POKEMON game.

Darkrenard said:
I'd think that actual friggin Pokemon would be first priority for a POKEMON game.

Dude, think about it. In about 20 years we might have a total sum of over 2000 pokémon in the dex. Do you expect them to put ALL the pokémon forever? Make ground up models for EVERY SINGLE POKÉMON EVERY 2 - 5 YEARS? They have to stop it eventually, and for me at least it seems better to just drop this concept before it bites them in the ass.

Dragon_Monarch said:
Dude, think about it. In about 20 years we might have a total sum of over 2000 pokémon in the dex. Do you expect them to put ALL the pokémon forever? Make ground up models for EVERY SINGLE POKÉMON EVERY 2 - 5 YEARS? They have to stop it eventually, and for me at least it seems better to just drop this concept before it bites them in the ass.

They fit 807 on the 3DS, if that can handle it, why can't the Switch handle much more? They're jumping from a handheld to a console, yet the console can't handle a little more than the handheld? Sure, eventually they won't be able to hold them all, but jumping to this considerably more powerful machine should not be that point. This should be the easiest thing to put them all in so far, but no, they want to be lazy, so they ruin it. Both from this and replacing actual cool mechanics like mega evolution and Z-moves with their shitty scaling up of models and calling it a day.

Darkrenard said:
They fit 807 on the 3DS, if that can handle it, why can't the Switch handle much more? They're jumping from a handheld to a console, yet the console can't handle a little more than the handheld? Sure, eventually they won't be able to hold them all, but jumping to this considerably more powerful machine should not be that point. This should be the easiest thing to put them all in so far, but no, they want to be lazy, so they ruin it. Both from this and replacing actual cool mechanics like mega evolution and Z-moves with their shitty scaling up of models and calling it a day.

I'm not talking about the power of the console, i'm talking about WORK. With each generation, they have more and more pokémon, and with each generation, they need to make NEW models. It wouldn't matter if they took this decision now or later, because it was NEEDED, the can't make 1000+ new skins for each gen, and with each passing game, the more task force it would be needed, as I said, eventually we will have TOO much pokémon, so they need to stop at some point, and the case is that they decided to make it now. I agree that no Z-moves or Mega-Evolutions is kinda of a bummer, i agree that laziness might be a part of the problem on this spectre, but with the internation dex, it's not about laziness, it's about a task that eventually may become IMPOSSIBLE. This is called future proofing, a really important step for any long-lived project. And I might add one more thing, The consumer is not 100% right everytime, there will be times something we don't like may happen, and we need to suck it up.

Dragon_Monarch said:
I'm not talking about the power of the console, i'm talking about WORK. With each generation, they have more and more pokémon, and with each generation, they need to make NEW models. It wouldn't matter if they took this decision now or later, because it was NEEDED, the can't make 1000+ new skins for each gen, and with each passing game, the more task force it would be needed, as I said, eventually we will have TOO much pokémon, so they need to stop at some point, and the case is that they decided to make it now. I agree that no Z-moves or Mega-Evolutions is kinda of a bummer, i agree that laziness might be a part of the problem on this spectre, but with the internation dex, it's not about laziness, it's about a task that eventually may become IMPOSSIBLE. This is called future proofing, a really important step for any long-lived project. And I might add one more thing, The consumer is not 100% right everytime, there will be times something we don't like may happen, and we need to suck it up.

Well, couldn't they have chosen to do that in a future generation then? Give us at least this one full console experience with all the Pokemon rather than getting us all excited for the first mainline console game and then pulling the rug out? Again, yes, they can't do this forever, but this seems like a really bad time to start that, plus they're 3D models, they can be recycled. And it's Pokemon, one of the biggest franchises ever to exist, you're telling me they can't put in the work for it? Either way, I'm not sucking up anything, I'm done buying Pokemon games if they keep this up, if Gamefreak wants to coast along because the name's so big they don't have to give a shit, let them.

Dragon_Monarch said:
with each generation, they need to make NEW models.

Not for the existing pokemon they don't. Except for the newly added pokemon, gen 7 used the same models as gen 6. Let's Go on the Switch essentially reused the same models too, and the gen 8 models don't seem to be very different. Reusing the models in newer generations is the reason they got away with making so many in the first place, as they were even designed to be used on better hardware in the future (ever wonder why double-battles tank the framerate on the 3DS games, even on the more powerful 3DS revisions? Because the models were more detailed than those handhelds could properly manage). The fact that they aren't bringing in all the existing models from the previous games actually means they wasted time and effort making them as detailed as they were for those games, causing poor performance for no reason.

It wouldn't matter if they took this decision now or later, because it was NEEDED

Actually it would. If they held it off until later (when they actually redid all the models again in higher fidelity), they could show a clear benefit for why some pokemon got cut. Rather than simply saying "we wanted to make them more expressive" (without showing them to be more expressive), they could show the improvement players get in the creature models and animations. But they can't, because there isn't.

Putting it off until later also means they could have more time to tell people that it will be happening. Rather than having two hype-filled trailers first to get peoples' hopes up for it being the best pokemon game to date, and only announcing the series' first-ever cuts in a less-viewed treehouse segment as the release draws near, they could get out ahead of it and warn people that it would happen. It wouldn't get rid of the backlash, but it would certainly soften the blow.

They could also be more honest in their reasoning. Masuda and Ohmori said they wanted all the pokemon in the game, but say they had to make cuts so people don't have to wait longer for the game. They essentially imply they'd rather rush out a game with missing features than to take the necessary time to make it complete. A rather anti-Nintendo stance actually (Nintendo being a company that's not afraid to delay their big franchises by months or years, or even restart development from scratch, to ensure the game comes out complete). And it should be clear by now that many people would prefer to wait for all the pokemon, meaning both players and the creators want all the pokemon and people don't mind waiting a bit more, so why don't they budge on their stance?

Really it's just trying to cover for the fact that The Pokemon Company needs the games out by a specific date for merchandising and the anime and such. It's not that Game Freak can't do it in a reasonable amount of time, it's not that they're unwilling to do it, and it's not that people don't want to wait to get a better product. It's that TPC sees the mainline series as a vehicle to introduce new pokemon rather than being a game people buy to enjoy in its own right.

If they didn't do it this Gen, they'd just be kicking the can for a future Gen.

I understand that it's disappointing to hear that your favorite Pokemon might not be in, and I get the argument that Game Freak might've been able to add every Pokemon if they really wanted to. Regardless, this issue was unavoidable. Sooner or later, we'd have to accept the fact that adding every Pokemon wouldn't be a wise way to spend development time. You're free to criticize Game Freak for making this decision on the first home console Gen, but I'd at least try looking at the issue from their perspective before going on a rant. I highly doubt this was a matter of laziness like so many people are making it out to be.

Watsit said:
Not for the existing pokemon they don't. Except for the newly added pokemon, gen 7 used the same models as gen 6. Let's Go on the Switch essentially reused the same models too, and the gen 8 models don't seem to be very different. Reusing the models in newer generations is the reason they got away with making so many in the first place, as they were even designed to be used on better hardware in the future (ever wonder why double-battles tank the framerate on the 3DS games, even on the more powerful 3DS revisions? Because the models were more detailed than those handhelds could properly manage). The fact that they aren't bringing in all the existing models from the previous games actually means they wasted time and effort making them as detailed as they were for those games, causing poor performance for no reason.

There's a lot more to the process than just copy-and-pasting all 800+ models, and I highly doubt all of the models/Pokemon that aren't getting carried over to Sword and Shield are just being tossed aside forever. If we're to believe we'll get more Pokemon games on the Switch, like a Gen 4 remake, that's probably when we'll start seeing those old models/Pokemon make a return.

Watsit said:Really it's just trying to cover for the fact that The Pokemon Company needs the games out by a specific date for merchandising and the anime and such. It's not that Game Freak can't do it in a reasonable amount of time, it's not that they're unwilling to do it, and it's not that people don't want to wait to get a better product. It's that TPC sees the mainline series as a vehicle to introduce new pokemon rather than being a game people buy to enjoy in its own right.

Well, hundreds of people with jobs related to Pokemon and TPC are depending on that Novemeber deadline. Even Nintendo themselves are likely pushing for them to release the game on time, and they've done it before with games outside of Pokemon (see Mario Tennis Ultra Smash). Along with Luigi's Mansion 3, this is essentially all they have for the upcoming holiday season.

And regarding people only buying Pokemon games because they enjoy them in their own right, you should know that's not the case. New Pokemon and new features are what really drive the interest for casuals, not the traditional "capture Pokemon, compete with friends, beat the gyms, and become Champion", shtick that's used over and over. That'd be like saying a new Smash game would be just as exciting if they focused entirely on improving gameplay and the graphics but didn't add any new fighters, stages, or other content.

CosmicMewtwo said:
If they didn't do it this Gen, they'd just be kicking the can for a future Gen.

I understand that it's disappointing to hear that your favorite Pokemon might not be in, and I get the argument that Game Freak might've been able to add every Pokemon if they really wanted to. Regardless, this issue was unavoidable. Sooner or later, we'd have to accept the fact that adding every Pokemon wouldn't be a wise way to spend development time. You're free to criticize Game Freak for making this decision on the first home console Gen, but I'd at least try looking at the issue from their perspective before going on a rant. I highly doubt this was a matter of laziness like so many people are making it out to be.

There's a lot more to the process than just copy-and-pasting all 800+ models, and I highly doubt all of the models/Pokemon that aren't getting carried over to Sword and Shield are just being tossed aside forever. If we're to believe we'll get more Pokemon games on the Switch, like a Gen 4 remake, that's probably when we'll start seeing those old models/Pokemon make a return.

Well, hundreds of people with jobs related to Pokemon and TPC are depending on that Novemeber deadline. Even Nintendo themselves are likely pushing for them to release the game on time, and they've done it before with games outside of Pokemon (see Mario Tennis Ultra Smash). Along with Luigi's Mansion 3, this is essentially all they have for the upcoming holiday season.

And regarding people only buying Pokemon games because they enjoy them in their own right, you should know that's not the case. New Pokemon and new features are what really drive the interest for casuals, not the traditional "capture Pokemon, compete with friends, beat the gyms, and become Champion", shtick that's used over and over. That'd be like saying a new Smash game would be just as exciting if they focused entirely on improving gameplay and the graphics but didn't add any new fighters, stages, or other content.

Mom? Dad? Stop fighting please.

CosmicMewtwo said:
If they didn't do it this Gen, they'd just be kicking the can for a future Gen.

Which IMO would've been a smarter move. Not only for the reasons I already stated, but on top of that TPC knew they were already on shaky ground (consider how fans reacted when the only news of Pokemon on the Switch following the system's release was about Pokken Tournament DX). They realized the mainline games were important to get right, to have a smooth transition to the new system. They even talked about how fans should not expect significant changes to the formula, as they had to play it safe with the first mainline entry on the Switch.

Well, we see what happened there.

Regardless, this issue was unavoidable. Sooner or later, we'd have to accept the fact that adding every Pokemon wouldn't be a wise way to spend development time.

I actually agree with that. I've said similar elsewhere, that Game Freak is in a pretty untenable position where they're expected to keep adding more and more pokemon while also raising the bar on graphical fidelity for the series. At some point, something has to give. However, I have a really hard time believing this is the straw that broke the camel's back. It was external pressure, not their inability or unwillingness to keep the status quo one more time.

There's a lot more to the process than just copy-and-pasting all 800+ models, and I highly doubt all of the models/Pokemon that aren't getting carried over to Sword and Shield are just being tossed aside forever.

For sure it's not as simple as copy-and-pasting the models, some work would have to go into making sure they work correctly and aren't egregiously broken. But it's far from the amount of work implied by people who take that as a big reason. They don't have to (and aren't) remodeling and reanimating the old pokemon. They aren't making significant changes to them. I can't imagine it taking a few extra months at most to finish getting the rest in. But TPC won't allow them that extra time, and adding it in later would expose that they were indeed forced to release the game in an incomplete state, so they won't and players suffer for it.

Whether or not the cut pokemon ever come back in future games really points to a bigger issue. As it is, I don't think we even know how many, let alone which, pokemon are being cut here. We don't know what criteria they're going to use to decide what they'll support in this game or future ones, so people don't know what to expect. Every pokemon is someone's favorite, and most of the existing pokemon roster aren't verified to be in the game. People have no choice but to assume the worst since we don't have information.

And regarding people only buying Pokemon games because they enjoy them in their own right, you should know that's not the case. New Pokemon and new features are what really drive the interest for casuals, not the traditional "capture Pokemon, compete with friends, beat the gyms, and become Champion", shtick that's used over and over.

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. What I'm getting at is that TPC is caring about the mainline games in as far as it brings out new pokemon. As long as it has new pokemon, the game is fit for release, regardless of what else both the players and developers want. Obviously having new pokemon is necessary, but if the quality of the product has to suffer because it's treated as just a tool for selling other products, perhaps it's best to rethink how it's all structured. Making the games' quality suffer because other non-game-related merchandise is on a more strict schedule isn't a good situation.

Wither&wane said:
Mom? Dad? Stop fighting please.

Don't worry, we're not fighting. We actually seem to agree on a number of points, even that something like this is inevitable. We just disagree a bit on certain particulars.

Hello, lol comments tag, I'm also surprised no one commented on the innuendo in the 2nd panel.

honestly at this point I'd rather have zoroark over lucario.

I don't know what other returning pokemon there will be, but if there will be no zoroark, then at least give me delphox, lycanroc, salazzle, or hydreigon

Nightmare-Fox said:
I don't know what other returning pokemon there will be, but if there will be no zoroark, then at least give me delphox, lycanroc, salazzle, or hydreigon

zoroark has been in every game since it was relessed their not point in breaking that streak, delphox is a starter pokemon so highly unlikly

holy shit this is the most amount of comments I've seen so far

Frostpai said:
holy shit this is the most amount of comments I've seen so far

Really, 20 comments?? Clearly you haven't been here very long lol :P

Frostpai said:
holy shit this is the most amount of comments I've seen so far

i have seen more but not this big

CosmicMewtwo said:

Dragon_Monarch said:

Watsit said:

None of you are wrong.

On top of everything you three have said,
another aspect to consider is this:
On top of all of this, GameFreak was(and still is) trying to work on a second title at the same time(and had divided up it's work force to so).

So Whatever the real reason may be, a key contributing factor to Sword and Shield's...condition is that GameFreak was trying to make it without having a full deck of cards.

I doubt it does, but, I hope this helps.

This aged poorly... IoA...

henlein_thekobold said:
Sceptile is disguised as Charizard

The irony

Agreed XD i laughed so hard when i realized Sceptile painted itself orange