Why is a flat chested female otter intersex?

Tarrock said:
Why is a flat chested female otter intersex?

She isnt. Bunch of tagging troll/morons cant figure out mikhaila is female because of the whole "tag what you see" crap. Lets get this over with once and for all. Mikhaila is a female character. We know she is a female character because the ARTIST says and draws her as a female character. As far as Tsampikos' art goes they are the creator and god of their art world. Its a world from their imagination and what they say IS period. Mikhaila is a female character drawn by Tsampikos THE END!

Direbat said:
She isnt. Bunch of tagging troll/morons cant figure out mikhaila is female because of the whole "tag what you see" crap. Lets get this over with once and for all. Mikhaila is a female character. We know she is a female character because the ARTIST says and draws her as a female character. As far as Tsampikos' art goes they are the creator and god of their art world. Its a world from their imagination and what they say IS period. Mikhaila is a female character drawn by Tsampikos THE END!

Mikhaila is canonically a girl, we know this, we never deny this. However, a post's tags are handled on a case by case, contextual basis depending on a post's visuals. That's how TWYS works and allows the site's nice searching stuff to function.

If in a post she looks like not a girl, she gets tagged as such. She's still a girl character, just not in the post's context.

Direbat said:
Well i cant wait for Tsampikos to take their stuff down again because of your guys special needs tagging habbits. In the spirit of the tagging system i see no evidence of a brain being involved in any part of your thought process so i tag your reply -brain

...They specifically removed the DNP because of the new gender tag names lmao. Also they themselves never cared about how the character was tagged, and actually spoke out about not liking people harassing others over tagging.

Anyways don't mind me but I'm going to steal i tag your reply -brain because honestly it's a forever mood

Direbat said:
Well i cant wait for Tsampikos to take their stuff down again because of your guys special needs tagging habbits.

God, that's embarrassing given what happened recently with the DNP list

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
...They specifically removed the DNP because of the new gender tag names lmao. Also they themselves never cared about how the character was tagged, and actually spoke out about not liking people harassing others over tagging.

Anyways don't mind me but I'm going to steal i tag your reply -brain because honestly it's a forever mood

Oh! So that's what happened, then. I always took Tsampikos for a chill artist, but, for a moment, I thought I was wrong and the whole reason behind the DNP was because of some drama regarding misgendering yadda yaddas.
Thankfully, it seems that wasn't the case. It was more of a concern about the community fighting over stuff, huh... that's actually pretty cool! So they're still a pretty chill person in my book. Glad it's all sorted out!

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
...They specifically removed the DNP because of the new gender tag names lmao. Also they themselves never cared about how the character was tagged, and actually spoke out about not liking people harassing others over tagging.

Anyways don't mind me but I'm going to steal i tag your reply -brain because honestly it's a forever mood

Got a strike for being insulting. Thats perfectly fine. The tagging system here does the opposite of what you want however. Lets say this was a anime site for human/humanoid art. You have a bunch of pictures of Legolas, an elf. In one picture an overhang or something is blocking his upper head in a picture series. Cant see his ears..guess not an elf now. Heck maybe its not even Legolas because Legolas is an elf and clearly this picture is not of an elf...no elf ears can be seen. Now you have a phantom picture floating in the search ether of a mysteries character that is clearly Legolas. My point is you mentioned a "contextual basis". There is no context. With this forced amnesia between pictures how can any consistency be kept. Mikhaila Kirov has a tail btw. I see no tail at all in this picture. Is this character Mikhaila Kirov? The fact this picture is tagged with her name at all makes my point. You used the exact same method of determining this character is Mikhaila Kirov that i did in determining she is female not intersex.

In any other context of searching this tagging system would be ridiculous. My point is that is ridiculous, does the exact opposite of what the admins claim it does, and should be changed. This will get downvoted into oblivion, but thats fine point has been made.

CamKitty said:
God, that's embarrassing given what happened recently with the DNP list

Not embarrassed at all. I was wrong about why they got taken down and admit it. I find a huge problem with the amnesia tagging system, which is my point anyway.

Direbat said:
rant_snip.exe

I mean, an elf with no pointed ears showing is literally a human. They're essentially humans with pointed ears. Lacking them in the scene makes them..... look human.

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
I mean, an elf with no pointed ears showing is literally a human. They're essentially humans with pointed ears. Lacking them in the scene makes them..... look human.

Sure thats fine. Still explain to me why this is Mikhaila? Mikhaila has a tail and there is clearly no tail here

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
Because mikhaila looks like an anthro otter, regardless of tail, and not just a human with special ears

And thats you making an assumption about a character not based on context of the picture. "looks like an anthro otter". A lot of characters on this site look like anthro otters. Are...you basing this assumption on other pictures you have seen of Mikhaila? Afraid cant do that have to base tags on what you see in the individual picture im afraid. Also ears/tails same thing. Physical parts of a character that help identify who they are.

Direbat said:
And thats you making an assumption about a character not based on context of the picture. "looks like an anthro otter". A lot of characters on this site look like anthro otters. Are...you basing this assumption on other pictures you have seen of Mikhaila? Afraid cant do that have to base tags on what you see in the individual picture im afraid. Also ears/tails same thing. Physical parts of a character that help identify who they are.

She looks like an otter, she's tagged like an otter. That's not "assuming outside of context", that's tagging by visuals lmao.

Tags like character names and franchises, etc, don't abide by TWYS rules due to not being able to more easily parse visually. But here she looks mustelid-like, so tagged as such, regardless of tail and outside images.

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
She looks like an otter, she's tagged like an otter. That's not "assuming outside of context", that's tagging by visuals lmao.

Tags like character names and franchises, etc, don't abide by TWYS rules due to not being able to more easily parse visually. But here she looks mustelid-like, so tagged as such, regardless of tail and outside images.

Thats exactly what i was hoping you would say. Thats the problem. We can know that its Mikhaila in the tags, and can know that Mikhaila is a female. But then suddenly we "cant" know she is a female in the tags?

Well im done and made my point now. The tagging rules hinder finding what you want instead of help. I'm sure the tagging system wont change, but it never will if no argument is ever made about it. Thank you

I thought intersexwas for character with both male and female features, being flatchested is not grounds for the intersex tag.

qwe304 said:
I thought intersexwas for character with both male and female features, being flatchested is not grounds for the intersex tag.

Andromorph and gynomorph characters, aka men who have vaginas and women who have penises respectively, fall under the tag as well. It's not exclusively for herm/maleherm characters.

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
Andromorph and gynomorph characters, aka men who have vaginas and women who have penises respectively, fall under the tag as well. It's not exclusively for herm/maleherm characters.

I don't see how thats applicable, the only remotely masculine traits are her flat chest and arguably her hair, every other part of her looks clearly femine (least to me)

qwe304 said:
I don't see how thats applicable, the only remotely masculine traits are her flat chest and arguably her hair, every other part of her looks clearly femine (least to me)

Things like shoulder width, face shape, and other similar features are also factors when deciding what to tag. Also, girly andromorphs are a thing.

post #1929892

This I think is a perfect example of a feminine guy who just happens to have a pussy, aka girly andromorph

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
Things like shoulder width, face shape, and other similar features are also factors when deciding what to tag. Also, girly andromorphs are a thing.

post #1929892

This I think is a perfect example of a feminine guy who just happens to have a pussy, aka girly andromorph

I agree with you but those two are just being ranters and I would just let ranters be ranters so that the admins can deal with them.

Direbat said:
Thats exactly what i was hoping you would say. Thats the problem. We can know that its Mikhaila in the tags, and can know that Mikhaila is a female. But then suddenly we "cant" know she is a female in the tags?

Well im done and made my point now. The tagging rules hinder finding what you want instead of help. I'm sure the tagging system wont change, but it never will if no argument is ever made about it. Thank you

Well, characters can have any gender at any time, if they are drawn differently or with other intent. The tag "crossgender" is a thing after all. Canonly male characters being drawn as females/intersex and vice versa.
So having a gender-tag hardwired to a character would create problems in these events. That's why, even for well known characters, we might also use "ambiguous_gender" if there are no clear signs as to what it currently is in that picture.

TWYS is a visual categorization system, not a lore organization. It's simply to organize content which appears a certain way. It's even a disclaimer in the gender tagging wiki:
https://e621.net/wiki/show/howto:tag_genders
If you see a post that has conflicting gender tags to lore, you can even clarify the lore gender in the post description and/or wiki.

Whoever locked the "girly" tag had not read the description for it.
"A male character with a feminine personality, clothing, and sometimes body type (sans breasts of course)."

"Never use the girly tag for ambiguous_gender, female or dickgirl characters."

Quake-1 said:
Whoever locked the "girly" tag had not read the description for it.
"A male character with a feminine personality, clothing, and sometimes body type (sans breasts of course)."

"Never use the girly tag for ambiguous_gender, female or dickgirl characters."

....Your point?

They aren't tagged any of those...

Also, Omegalul at the tag history Dice

Quake-1 said:
Whoever locked the "girly" tag had not read the description for it.
"A male character with a feminine personality, clothing, and sometimes body type (sans breasts of course)."

"Never use the girly tag for ambiguous_gender, female or dickgirl characters."

Girly is a tag that can apply to male bodied characters, which includes maleherm, andromorph, and male characters

parent (SFW version) is tagged flat_chested and female, not sure why all the drama on here.

bushytoosh said:
parent (SFW version) is tagged flat_chested and female, not sure why all the drama on here.

Clothing is a hell of a thing, even in real life it can alter your perspective.
also images are judged on an image to image bases, even if the parent/child is an alternate version of the same post.

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
Mikhaila is canonically a girl, we know this, we never deny this. However, a post's tags are handled on a case by case, contextual basis depending on a post's visuals. That's how TWYS works and allows the site's nice searching stuff to function.

If in a post she looks like not a girl, she gets tagged as such. She's still a girl character, just not in the post's context.

See, TWYS doesn't always apply though. In many cases we tag things that are clearly not visible, like tagging a character as male when no penis is visible because we know the character is male, or appropriate penetration tags because the character has a canonical gender and can be guessed based on genitals. If TWYS was the be all end all and was the only thing ever used on this site, a very large chunk of the images would be tagged with ambiguous gender and/or ambiguous penetration.

It seems to me that when a character does have a canonical gender, then the standard procedure seems to be defaulting to that, the exception being visible deviations like a canonically female character being drawn with a penis.

In my opinion (and it seems many others agree with this opinion), TWYS should only be used in the case of uncertainty.

Dickard and many others have said:
<stuff>

Take this whole TWYS chat to a forum. This is the 30th comment and not a single one before it hasn't been TWYS/tagging related.

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
Mikhaila is canonically a girl, we know this, we never deny this. However, a post's tags are handled on a case by case, contextual basis depending on a post's visuals. That's how TWYS works and allows the site's nice searching stuff to function.

If in a post she looks like not a girl, she gets tagged as such. She's still a girl character, just not in the post's context.

Well, we wouldn't have such tagging drama like this if you guys had actually collected enough money before for developing a sophisticated algorithm for the sole purpose of automatic tagging. You just select a picture to upload, wait 20-30 seconds for the algorithm to process the stuff and then it gets uploaded to the site. And it should be trainable with manual tag corrections.

this tagging systems "tag what you see" rule needs to go, because some people are too stupid to tag images as accurately as possible. also the tag locking feature needs to go, because people like to abuse this feature as to hinder peoples ability to add as much accurate tagging edits as possible. for example, if a tag like cutie_mark is applied to a character that isn't affiliated with mlp in any way possible, and that tag is locked with no way to change it, then it breaks the searching system, allowing more people to continue this stupidity and make the cutie_mark tag lose its definition. i have seen many images with cutie_mark tags where they shouldn't be, and things like this still keep going. its the same thing with mikhalia_kirov and the whole andromorph debacle. change the tagging system, so things can sort themselves out.

ImpidiDinkaDoo said:
Things like shoulder width, face shape, and other similar features are also factors when deciding what to tag. Also, girly andromorphs are a thing.

post #1929892

This I think is a perfect example of a feminine guy who just happens to have a pussy, aka girly andromorph

Why are you adamantly defending a moronic system?

I don't wanna get involved in this discussion. But damn she hot

This site's policies are so fucking stupid lmao. "What, you're a woman who has small tits? Like a huge amount of the real life population of the planet? Nonsense, clearly you're just a dude that has literally none of the sexual characteristics of a man, secondary or otherwise, and all the other secondary sexual characteristics of a woman except breasts."

Absolutely ridiculous.

versperus said:
TWYS is a visual categorization system, not a lore organization. It's simply to organize content which appears a certain way. It's even a disclaimer in the gender tagging wiki:
https://e621.net/wiki/show/howto:tag_genders
If you see a post that has conflicting gender tags to lore, you can even clarify the lore gender in the post description and/or wiki.

The Problem is 1) The tags for this are locked. That means NOBODY ELSE can alter certain tags, and you cannot add tags that are blocked by the Locked Tags.

2) It makes finding Specific Posts Difficult especially if you're searching with certain tags or are running with a Blacklist to avoid seeing certain posts.

3) Locked and Improper tagging means that the Searcher will never find the specific post, and thus, reduce awareness of the post and potientially, the character and artist. This in turn will negatively impact the artist in the long run.

Doesn't look as simple of a Fix anymore now, does it?

victorjlazarus said:
The Problem is 1) The tags for this are locked. That means NOBODY ELSE can alter certain tags, and you cannot add tags that are blocked by the Locked Tags.

2) It makes finding Specific Posts Difficult especially if you're searching with certain tags or are running with a Blacklist to avoid seeing certain posts.

3) Locked and Improper tagging means that the Searcher will never find the specific post, and thus, reduce awareness of the post and potientially, the character and artist. This in turn will negatively impact the artist in the long run.

Doesn't look as simple of a Fix anymore now, does it?

You're replying to a year old comment that predates lore tagging. Also, all the tags on this post are still accurate and the locked tags are locked because of constant waring.