But Natani is not a man, or... something. At mean I think Natani has the body of a woman technically but... I'm not treading those waters again. Still love that keidran though.

She called him boy, but specified man. smh

Bet she is traces daughter or sister or something

"I'm no man"

i kind of forgot that natani used to beg that she was a "he" before the wole thing with Keith happend

Runescythe9852 said:
But Natani is not a man, or... something. At mean I think Natani has the body of a woman technically but... I'm not treading those waters again. Still love that keidran though.

TO BE PERFECTLY PRECISE, has we actualy know, Natani is a "Man" mentaly because of her links with her brother, but, since the mental cut, she reconciliate with her "Woman" part, so, it's technically some Genderfluid field I think.
BUT, the body is still female, so, the potion, chemical, can't affect her if she don't have the good metabolism to fell under it's effect X3 !!

Runescythe9852 said:
But Natani is not a man, or... something. At mean I think Natani has the body of a woman technically but... I'm not treading those waters again. Still love that keidran though.

It's probably hormone think

pitioti said:
TO BE PERFECTLY PRECISE, has we actualy know, Natani is a "Man" mentaly because of her links with her brother

It was actually established that Natani always enjoyed acting like and being seen as a boy, well before the link with Zen. Natani's perception of being normally feminine and Zen causing the mental masculinity is because that's how Zen perceives Natani's state, but Natani always had a masculine side growing up he never told Zen about. The link causes Zen's thoughts and feelings to mix with his own, to the point where he lost touch with his real self and began to feel as an extension of Zen, not realizing things like his masculinity are his own.

I actually find that a nice bit of lore and shines some light on the genuine downsides to their mental link, as it caused Natani to lose himself and perceive his own feelings as coming from Zen. It was only once the link was suppressed that Natani could self-reflect on himself and his own identity, separate from Zen.

If only she knew...

Whorst thing no one noticed is natani dont undertand human

nightmarezoroark said:
Whorst thing no one noticed is natani dont undertand human

Huh, good point. Though, Natani has been shown to have a very basic understanding of Human , but I agree that it would most likely not be enough to have understood what Sealeen was saying.

It's pretty obvious that the Natani gender thing was meant to end with her accepting her sexuality with Keith... but as the comic went on, the political climate shifted. Tom knows it would be a death sentence to make the character simply a "tomboy", so retconned in the more transgender ideology. But it's comics like this that constantly remind that he's not exactly on the trans side, as he constantly uses Natani's gender as the butt of a joke. I think it's a shame honestly. People say this adds more to her character, but honestly it just says to me that Tom's been written into a corner. He can't end Natani's character arc properly with things left up in the air, but if he picks one side, he'll piss people off. And I don't really see Tom as an avid SJW so I don't really think he knows how to deal with or appease the more rabid trans folk. Hence why he never speaks up in those arguments about Natani's gender.

So...

Should this be posted here yet? It is the current vote incentive.

Watsit said:
It was actually established that Natani always enjoyed acting like and being seen as a boy, well before the link with Zen. Natani's perception of being normally feminine and Zen causing the mental masculinity is because that's how Zen perceives Natani's state, but Natani always had a masculine side growing up he never told Zen about. The link causes Zen's thoughts and feelings to mix with his own, to the point where he lost touch with his real self and began to feel as an extension of Zen, not realizing things like his masculinity are his own.

I actually find that a nice bit of lore and shines some light on the genuine downsides to their mental link, as it caused Natani to lose himself and perceive his own feelings as coming from Zen. It was only once the link was suppressed that Natani could self-reflect on himself and his own identity, separate from Zen.

There is a difference between identify has a "Male" and liking to be seen has "masculine", it was what I wanted to say :3 !
In my language, we talk about "Missed Boy", a person that identify has "Female" but is "Masculine" and like to be seen has boyish or a boy :3 !

HareTrigger said:
It's pretty obvious that the Natani gender thing was meant to end with her accepting her sexuality with Keith... but as the comic went on, the political climate shifted. Tom knows it would be a death sentence to make the character simply a "tomboy", so retconned in the more transgender ideology. But it's comics like this that constantly remind that he's not exactly on the trans side, as he constantly uses Natani's gender as the butt of a joke. I think it's a shame honestly. People say this adds more to her character, but honestly it just says to me that Tom's been written into a corner. He can't end Natani's character arc properly with things left up in the air, but if he picks one side, he'll piss people off. And I don't really see Tom as an avid SJW so I don't really think he knows how to deal with or appease the more rabid trans folk. Hence why he never speaks up in those arguments about Natani's gender.

My thoughts exactly. It was pretty clear when King Adelaide told her that "being feminine and being strong aren't mutually exclusive" (don't remember the exact quote but that's basically what she said). That was perfect! A great moral that would be the perfect way to wrap up Natani's whole gender thing. But no, Tom is stalling and will probably never reach a conclusion to this just because the trans folk will be all over his ass. It's sad, really.

Watsit said:
It was actually established that Natani always enjoyed acting like and being seen as a boy, well before the link with Zen. Natani's perception of being normally feminine and Zen causing the mental masculinity is because that's how Zen perceives Natani's state, but Natani always had a masculine side growing up he never told Zen about. The link causes Zen's thoughts and feelings to mix with his own, to the point where he lost touch with his real self and began to feel as an extension of Zen, not realizing things like his masculinity are his own.

I actually find that a nice bit of lore and shines some light on the genuine downsides to their mental link, as it caused Natani to lose himself and perceive his own feelings as coming from Zen. It was only once the link was suppressed that Natani could self-reflect on himself and his own identity, separate from Zen.

Tomboy =/= "man", or gay.

Salemcripple said:
Tomboy =/= "man", or gay.

No, but combined with Natani's present discomfort with both male ''and'' female designations, I'd say that s/he's a good candidate for a genderfluid character.

Iago1 said:
No, but combined with Natani's present discomfort with both male ''and'' female designations, I'd say that s/he's a good candidate for a genderfluid character.

True, but what I've always said is Natani was 100% straight female (a tomboy, but still female) before the mental break. And since the link was broken, s/he's reconnected with that.

Sealeen should go get potion(s) that work on women as well.

Iago1 said:
No, but combined with Natani's present discomfort with both male ''and'' female designations, I'd say that s/he's a good candidate for a genderfluid character.

What discomfort does Natani have with a male designation? I don't think Natani has ever not wanted to be seen or thought of as a guy. At most he's less uncomfortable with other people realizing he's physically female, but he still behaves the same and from what I know still wants to be thought of as a guy.

Watsit said:
What discomfort does Natani have with a male designation? I don't think Natani has ever not wanted to be seen or thought of as a guy. At most he's less uncomfortable with other people realizing he's physically female, but he still behaves the same and from what I know still wants to be thought of as a guy.

I disagree she flat out told everyone that she is a girl and is now comfortable with it after she woke from her coma and voluntarily outted herself while Keith was perfectly fine being seen as gay in front of the group to guard her secret. She is still a tomboy and admits to enjoy pretending to be a guy but no longer gets outraged or plots murdering others when called a girl like how she thought about snapping Mike or Eval's neck for correctly calling her, her and then subsequently choking out Kat.

Natani just continues her tomboy thing because that's what she always was, remember on the ship she sounded girly towards Keith once when they were alone to mess with him after the coma and he was confused and alarmed at it before she said that her personality isn't altered since the coma. Something she never would have done if she didn't more/less fix her shattered mind during the coma.

Guys, you're over complicating this.

The potion works on men. Natani is a woman disguised as a man.

Sealeen thought Natani is a dude, so she used a potion for dudes. It didn't work because Natani is a woman. Sealeen doesn't know this, so she's confused why it didn't work.

HareTrigger said:
It's pretty obvious that the Natani gender thing was meant to end with her accepting her sexuality with Keith... but as the comic went on, the political climate shifted. Tom knows it would be a death sentence to make the character simply a "tomboy", so retconned in the more transgender ideology. But it's comics like this that constantly remind that he's not exactly on the trans side, as he constantly uses Natani's gender as the butt of a joke. I think it's a shame honestly. People say this adds more to her character, but honestly it just says to me that Tom's been written into a corner. He can't end Natani's character arc properly with things left up in the air, but if he picks one side, he'll piss people off. And I don't really see Tom as an avid SJW so I don't really think he knows how to deal with or appease the more rabid trans folk. Hence why he never speaks up in those arguments about Natani's gender.

This comment is going to downvoted. I’m accepting that now.

Tom did it to himself, and should have seen that problem coming sooner. You simply cannot please that audience when it comes to representing them in the slightest form.

Rarely do I see anyone from the T community be pleased from having a character that they can relate to when concerning gender politics if they don’t go 100% of the way in a positive manner. Even when that criteria is met, someone will complain, rile people up on Twitter, and make demands based on their own misguided feelings on their own individual insecurities.

That aside, I like how Natani is written. Her backstory is believable and corresponds to how people who claim the same thing think about themselves.

Only part I don’t like is the rabid creatures that come out of their tumblr windows trying to police everyone on her mental gender rather than her actual one. Then, even trying to use actual facts and science to explain why just gets you labeled as a transphobic POS.

(Sigh) Anything that involves Natani brings out some cancerous individuals.

ScreechingSergal said:
This comment is going to downvoted. I’m accepting that now.

Tom did it to himself, and should have seen that problem coming sooner. You simply cannot please that audience when it comes to representing them in the slightest form.

Rarely do I see anyone from the T community be pleased from having a character that they can relate to when concerning gender politics if they don’t go 100% of the way in a positive manner. Even when that criteria is met, someone will complain, rile people up on Twitter, and make demands based on their own misguided feelings on their own individual insecurities.

That aside, I like how Natani is written. Her backstory is believable and corresponds to how people who claim the same thing think about themselves.

Only part I don’t like is the rabid creatures that come out of their tumblr windows trying to police everyone on her mental gender rather than her actual one. Then, even trying to use actual facts and science to explain why just gets you labeled as a transphobic POS.

(Sigh) Anything that involves Natani brings out some cancerous individuals.

*image featuring Natani gets posted*

Some rabid creature: "eXcUse ME! nAtAnI is a HE! PlEaSe uSe tHe coRrEcT pRoNoUn!"

Every time.

Let's shift the topic a little: Sealeen looks so damn CUTE!

Hawk101 said:
*image featuring Natani gets posted*

Some rabid creature: "eXcUse ME! nAtAnI is a HE! PlEaSe uSe tHe coRrEcT pRoNoUn!"

Every time.

Responses like this, although correct, factual, and logical, still get me labeled as homophobic.

ScreechingSergal said:
Responses like this, although correct, factual, and logical, still get me labeled as homophobic.

It's a buzz word. The easiest way to ignore someone's point or avoid addressing it is to label them something -phobic/-ist.

nightmarezoroark said:
Whorst thing no one noticed is natani dont undertand human

I'd guess she caught a few words and extrapolated the rest from the fact that Sealeen is doing a cutesy face. Thus the slightly confused reaction, because she's probably trying to figure out what Sealeen wants, but caught enough to guess it's not something she wants any part of