This whole thing's got me curious. What do the Japanese community and new players think of the game? I haven't seen their opinions yet.

-Ky- said:
This whole thing's got me curious. What do the Japanese community and new players think of the game? I haven't seen their opinions yet.

Same level of pissed as western fans.
And the fact they're openly expressing it is kind of a huge deal considering how culturally the japanese tend not to openly express displeasure, especially for just entertainment media.

SuperScum said:
Same level of pissed as western fans.
And the fact they're openly expressing it is kind of a huge deal considering how culturally the japanese tend not to openly express displeasure, especially for just entertainment media.

Did TPCi/Nintendo ever make a statement about the situation before the lawsuit? Seems kinda odd that they'd stay silent about something this big as the game's publishers.

-Ky- said:
This whole thing's got me curious. What do the Japanese community and new players think of the game? I haven't seen their opinions yet.

Actually from what I have seen, many people still think it to be the best pokemon game to date, which it most likely is, because pokemon is pretty simplistic and old game by its core.

So yeah, I also wouldn't blame anyone for enjoying what they enjoy, just that there are still tons of things about the games which could've been so much better and many who are more into these games are data mining and investigating some absurd stuff around it, including lies about remodeled pokemons when they are identical to 3DS games.

Mairo said:
Actually from what I have seen, many people still think it to be the best pokemon game to date, which it most likely is, because pokemon is pretty simplistic and old game by its core.

So yeah, I also wouldn't blame anyone for enjoying what they enjoy, just that there are still tons of things about the games which could've been so much better and many who are more into these games are data mining and investigating some absurd stuff around it, including lies about remodeled pokemons when they are identical to 3DS games.

This might sound like a weird comparison, but do you know how Street Fighter V catered almost exclusively to the competitive market, and how bare-bones it was when it first came out? That's how the games feel to me now that I've played through it. The core game's still sound, but like you said, it could be a bit better.

I'm starting to wonder if TPCi forced Gamefreak into a NDA that barred them from giving exact answers to certain questions. I dunno, between playing the game myself and reading everybody else's comments my own personal thoughts might be getting a little warped.

-Ky- said:
This whole thing's got me curious. What do the Japanese community and new players think of the game? I haven't seen their opinions yet.

considering the japanese people never got an official statement about the dex cut. pretty pissed I'd imagine.

-Ky- said:
This whole thing's got me curious. What do the Japanese community and new players think of the game? I haven't seen their opinions yet.

SuperScum said:
Same level of pissed as western fans.
And the fact they're openly expressing it is kind of a huge deal considering how culturally the japanese tend not to openly express displeasure, especially for just entertainment media.

TastyDonuts6 said:
considering the japanese people never got an official statement about the dex cut. pretty pissed I'd imagine.

Japan only learned of the dex cut the week before launch thanks to the leakers.

Japan has been MUCH less civil than the western fanbase and the truth is these games are selling worse than sun/moon, which had lackluster sales by pokemon's standards.

In fact, japan started #fuckyougamefreak

I'm seriously not joking.

Daneasaur said:
Japan only learned of the dex cut the week before launch thanks to the leakers.

Japan has been MUCH less civil than the western fanbase and the truth is these games are selling worse than sun/moon, which had lackluster sales by pokemon's standards.

In fact, japan started #fuckyougamefreak

I'm seriously not joking.

Really? I thought the US started it and then Japan picked it up. Or am I getting it confused with #gamefreaklied?

Funny that it beat SSBU as the fastest-selling game on the Switch worldwide yet it's the 2nd-fastest selling Pokemon game. I honestly can't tell if it's a success or failure on Nintendo's part.

-Ky- said:
Really? I thought the US started it and then Japan picked it up. Or am I getting it confused with #gamefreaklied?

Funny that it beat SSBU as the fastest-selling game on the Switch worldwide yet it's the 2nd-fastest selling Pokemon game. I honestly can't tell if it's a success or failure on Nintendo's part.

My question is: how many of the physical copies of Sw/Sh that they sold are going to be returned?
Also, (Not so) fun fact:
GameFreak has stated that the National Dex cut is going to apply to all future Pokémon games.

-Ky- said:
Really? I thought the US started it and then Japan picked it up. Or am I getting it confused with #gamefreaklied?

Funny that it beat SSBU as the fastest-selling game on the Switch worldwide yet it's the 2nd-fastest selling Pokemon game. I honestly can't tell if it's a success or failure on Nintendo's part.

"Most of those tabloids are actually false, much like IGN's ratings of the game. sw/sh sold less than sun/moon and is NOT the top selling game and the word of "fastest selling game over smash bros is also a fabrication because they are using the loophole of combining the sales of two games together.

But yeah, someone tried to smokescreen the leaks and the actual roster cut with #thankyougamefreak This lasted for about 6 hours as the pictures of the actual cuts made went viral and #gamefreaklied overtook it with over 75k posts and was a western tag. It also "SOMEHOW" became linked to many porn bots until it was removed from trending. Like... "SOMEONE" wanted to hide it?

#fuckyougamefreak started up in japan when the charts made it to them and got translated, especially with the game being so broken that it was bricking switches because the save mechanic was corrupting the game and all other games on a user's switch unless you went into the switch's settings and altered the file type your game data was saved as, as well as causing malfunctions in joycons.

Thisorthat said:
My question is: how many of the physical copies of Sw/Sh that they sold are going to be returned?
Also, (Not so) fun fact:
GameFreak has stated that the National Dex cut is going to apply to all future Pokémon games.

Many people have returned it already, if they didn't cancel their preorders. Those who haven't already beat the game AND filled out the dex because the game basically forces you do finish it within 14 hours. It's insanely small, there are NO caves, and the wild area is mostly a giant expanse of nothing.

As for the national dex, Masuda basically said that the roster would STILL be culled for at LEAST the next title, it'll just be moved around, so expect no more than 400 pokemon with about 70 new pokemon at max while the rest is random filler from the previous generations as opposed to any actual thought put into what pokemon would fit the region.

Also if it's a remake of Diamond/Pearl, expect dynamax to be forced into the story like how mega evolution was put into Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire.

Daneasaur said:
"Most of those tabloids are actually false, much like IGN's ratings of the game. sw/sh sold less than sun/moon and is NOT the top selling game and the word of "fastest selling game over smash bros is also a fabrication because they are using the loophole of combining the sales of two games together.

As for the national dex, Masuda basically said that the roster would STILL be culled for at LEAST the next title, it'll just be moved around, so expect no more than 400 pokemon with about 70 new pokemon at max while the rest is random filler from the previous generations as opposed to any actual thought put into what pokemon would fit the region.

Also if it's a remake of Diamond/Pearl, expect dynamax to be forced into the story like how mega evolution was put into Omega Ruby/Alpha Sapphire.

Aren't they collectively one game, though?

I'll be honest. I don't mind the dex moving around from game to game, and I like the idea of regional variants and megas/gigantamax, but it feels like they dug themselves into a hole cause now they have to keep making them, which hurts the number of new Pokemon overall.

Unless they work Eternatus into the story, it'd be a real stretch for them to force dynamax into a DP remake with what's been established in SwSh's story.

-Ky- said:
Aren't they collectively one game, though?

I'll be honest. I don't mind the dex moving around from game to game, and I like the idea of regional variants and megas/gigantamax, but it feels like they dug themselves into a hole cause now they have to keep making them, which hurts the number of new Pokemon overall.

Unless they work Eternatus into the story, it'd be a real stretch for them to force dynamax into a DP remake with what's been established in SwSh's story.

I don't mind the initial dex switching around or even wiping the slate clean and I think regional variants are great way of changing up older pokemon.

But the post game MUST allow the national dex otherwise you get the psot game of sword/shield.

Daneasaur said:
Pokemon stuff

So, coming from somebody that's not really a hardcore fan and plays it on the side, I really dont mind the openness and emptiness of the game. Reminds me of Fallout 76, really beautiful visuals.

As for the lackluster story, I have no comment. It's supposed to be a grindy game anyways, so I'm not rushing to complete it anytime soon.

Steel_Warrior said:
So, coming from somebody that's not really a hardcore fan and plays it on the side, I really dont mind the openness and emptiness of the game. Reminds me of Fallout 76, really beautiful visuals.

As for the lackluster story, I have no comment. It's supposed to be a grindy game anyways, so I'm not rushing to complete it anytime soon.

My take on how empty the Wild Area is is that it's meant to be played online, with players running around everywhere, and increasing the draw distance would cause performance issues. It's also a nice change of pace to not have to deal with an actual villainous team for once and just enjoy the gym challenge, even if it hurts the story's length.

-Ky- said:
My take on how empty the Wild Area is is that it's meant to be played online, with players running around everywhere, and increasing the draw distance would cause performance issues. It's also a nice change of pace to not have to deal with an actual villainous team for once and just enjoy the gym challenge, even if it hurts the story's length.

There really isn't hardly any story and the wild area is an outright failure to do even what you suggested.

When we got the news that a CONSOLE pokemon game was in development, we were expecting Battle Revolution and Coliseum level of battles, sizes, and details, especially when it came to the environment.

I mean, we wanted to see bat pokemon swoop on us from cave ceilings, rocks get up revealing they were rock pokemon, webs that when you walk into them start a battle with spider pokemon, just pokemon living in the environment naturally. Not being some NPC that sticks out like a sore thumb.

Daneasaur said:
There really isn't hardly any story and the wild area is an outright failure to do even what you suggested.

When we got the news that a CONSOLE pokemon game was in development, we were expecting Battle Revolution and Coliseum level of battles, sizes, and details, especially when it came to the environment.

I mean, we wanted to see bat pokemon swoop on us from cave ceilings, rocks get up revealing they were rock pokemon, webs that when you walk into them start a battle with spider pokemon, just pokemon living in the environment naturally. Not being some NPC that sticks out like a sore thumb.

I guess I'm just in the minority, because I never expected any of that. When they said "console Pokemon game", I expected a main Pokemon game, just on the Switch, with the same '8 gym leaders then league challenge' we've come to expect. This is Gamefreak's first major game on a home console after doing nothing but handhelds since Pulseman, so expecting them to knock it out of the park on the first swing? That's asking for a lot. I knew there would be some issues, and I actually like the art style they've been using, so the visuals don't bother me that much. Don't get me wrong, there are DEFINITE lows (Route 8), but there are also amazing highs (the gyms and new moves).

You technically did get that with Galarian Stunfisk. It's not perfect, but they kinda do portray wild Pokemon acting and reacting how they're naturally supposed to. Yamper and Growlithe run up to you tails wagging, shy Pokemon like Vulpix and Wooloo run away if you're too loud, aggressive Pokemon like Obstagoon and Sneasel will try to attack you on sight, Zigzagoon run in zig-zag patterns while Linoone only runs in straight lines and make 90 degree angle turns. There's even a Greedent that's always guarding a row of berry trees in the Wild Area regardless of weather. I love when a game adds small details like these.

-Ky- said:
I guess I'm just in the minority, because I never expected any of that. When they said "console Pokemon game", I expected a main Pokemon game, just on the Switch, with the same '8 gym leaders then league challenge' we've come to expect. This is Gamefreak's first major game on a home console after doing nothing but handhelds since Pulseman, so expecting them to knock it out of the park on the first swing? That's asking for a lot. I knew there would be some issues, and I actually like the art style they've been using, so the visuals don't bother me that much. Don't get me wrong, there are DEFINITE lows (Route 8), but there are also amazing highs (the gyms and new moves).

You technically did get that with Galarian Stunfisk. It's not perfect, but they kinda do portray wild Pokemon acting and reacting how they're naturally supposed to. Yamper and Growlithe run up to you tails wagging, shy Pokemon like Vulpix and Wooloo run away if you're too loud, aggressive Pokemon like Obstagoon and Sneasel will try to attack you on sight, Zigzagoon run in zig-zag patterns while Linoone only runs in straight lines and make 90 degree angle turns. There's even a Greedent that's always guarding a row of berry trees in the Wild Area regardless of weather. I love when a game adds small details like these.

You know, I never really thought about the small details!

I looked back at some of the pokemon, and you were right. They follow different programmes routes. They knew what they were doing regarding specific pokemon.

Daneasaur said:
There really isn't hardly any story and the wild area is an outright failure to do even what you suggested.

When we got the news that a CONSOLE pokemon game was in development, we were expecting Battle Revolution and Coliseum level of battles, sizes, and details, especially when it came to the environment.

I mean, we wanted to see bat pokemon swoop on us from cave ceilings, rocks get up revealing they were rock pokemon, webs that when you walk into them start a battle with spider pokemon, just pokemon living in the environment naturally. Not being some NPC that sticks out like a sore thumb.

Well, I can kinda understand the logistics of it. Nintendo is the handheld console king right now imo. If they made an actual console with controller, I fear that it would cause a war with the other major consoles out there: Xbox and PS.

Maybe I'm thinking too far into it, but I can see it.

Steel_Warrior said:
Well, I can kinda understand the logistics of it. Nintendo is the handheld console king right now imo. If they made an actual console with controller, I fear that it would cause a war with the other major consoles out there: Xbox and PS.

Maybe I'm thinking too far into it, but I can see it.

No, the Switch is in fact that type of console.

Look at Mario Odyssey. Look at Zelda Breath of the Wild. Look at Xenoblade 2. These games are incredible.

Look at Dragon Quest 8. Look at Digimon Cyber Sleuth/Hacker's memories.

Now look at pokemon and how lacking it is in ALL areas when compared to any of these other titles I mentioned, yet it is on the same system and is of THE highest grossing media franchise ever.

Mechanics? Digimon and Dragon Quest do it better.

Visuals? Xenoblade, Mario, Zelda, Dragonquest, even digimon blow it out of the water like a tactical nuke.

Pokemon ONLY had it's legacy mechanic to fall back on, and they took that out.

For crying out loud, you can't even have your pokemon follow you! Xenoblade lets your Blades follow you. Digimon lets THREE digimon follow you. Dragon quest lets you RIDE them!

But pokemon is over here struggling to render a pokemon more than 10 feet from the player and using gratuitous fog to obscure draw distance.

Daneasaur said:
No, the Switch is in fact that type of console.

Look at Mario Odyssey. Look at Zelda Breath of the Wild. Look at Xenoblade 2. These games are incredible.

Look at Dragon Quest 8. Look at Digimon Cyber Sleuth/Hacker's memories.

Now look at pokemon and how lacking it is in ALL areas when compared to any of these other titles I mentioned, yet it is on the same system and is of THE highest grossing media franchise ever.

Mechanics? Digimon and Dragon Quest do it better.

Visuals? Xenoblade, Mario, Zelda, Dragonquest, even digimon blow it out of the water like a tactical nuke.

Pokemon ONLY had it's legacy mechanic to fall back on, and they took that out.

For crying out loud, you can't even have your pokemon follow you! Xenoblade lets your Blades follow you. Digimon lets THREE digimon follow you. Dragon quest lets you RIDE them!

But pokemon is over here struggling to render a pokemon more than 10 feet from the player and using gratuitous fog to obscure draw distance.

The game is overall pretty lackluster.
Personally, I think Sword and Shield suffers from the lack of development into the world. If you've beaten the post-game, think back; are there any places you haven't been? Of course not! There are no pseudo-legendaries that accompany optional side areas, no holes-in-the-wall to make you feel like you've discovered something, no deep lore leaving you wondering about the events not explicitly explained. Just too much focus on the Wild Area.
Yes, it is cool that you can meet others and play together with them. No, that is not a function that should involve ALL your resources.

What the game suffers the most is that Game Freak did less with more. The Switch is the strongest piece of hardware they've made a Pokemon game for, but the lack of thought beyond combat balancing through roster slashing shows.
What? Battle Tower?
Oh, that thing can be cheesed through Eternus with Choice Specs, the respective tooldog, and a beefy Wishiwashi.

After completing the Dex a little over a week in, I find very little incentive to return to playing. I'm not a competitive player, so IV hunting is moot. Shiny hunting ditched the chaining aspect, so the ONLY skill that matters is patience.
Is that shiny wooloo REALLY worth several hours of muttony genocide with no certain payoff?

I get the feeling that Game Freak is planning to expand the world through DLC and future content patches, but that doesn't solve the issues with how bare-bones it is at the moment.

Data said:
The game is overall pretty lackluster.
Personally, I think Sword and Shield suffers from the lack of development into the world. If you've beaten the post-game, think back; are there any places you haven't been? Of course not! There are no pseudo-legendaries that accompany optional side areas, no holes-in-the-wall to make you feel like you've discovered something, no deep lore leaving you wondering about the events not explicitly explained. Just too much focus on the Wild Area.
Yes, it is cool that you can meet others and play together with them. No, that is not a function that should involve ALL your resources.

What the game suffers the most is that Game Freak did less with more. The Switch is the strongest piece of hardware they've made a Pokemon game for, but the lack of thought beyond combat balancing through roster slashing shows.
What? Battle Tower?
Oh, that thing can be cheesed through Eternus with Choice Specs, the respective tooldog, and a beefy Wishiwashi.

After completing the Dex a little over a week in, I find very little incentive to return to playing. I'm not a competitive player, so IV hunting is moot. Shiny hunting ditched the chaining aspect, so the ONLY skill that matters is patience.
Is that shiny wooloo REALLY worth several hours of muttony genocide with no certain payoff?

I get the feeling that Game Freak is planning to expand the world through DLC and future content patches, but that doesn't solve the issues with how bare-bones it is at the moment.

Thanks for that example. Now I can give Mr. Rime a Focus Sash and teach it Mirror Coat.

True, there's about as much post game content as XY, but in my opinion, every Pokemon game felt like there's nothing else to do but go online at the end, regardless of how much there is after the credits roll. But I'd honestly say Sword and Shield are the perfect games to at least give competitive battling a try with how much easier it's become to create and train a team.

-Ky- said:
Thanks for that example. Now I can give Mr. Rime a Focus Sash and teach it Mirror Coat.

True, there's about as much post game content as XY, but in my opinion, every Pokemon game felt like there's nothing else to do but go online at the end, regardless of how much there is after the credits roll. But I'd honestly say Sword and Shield are the perfect games to at least give competitive battling a try with how much easier it's become to create and train a team.

Sadly it isn't, and it specifically because online is 3 vs 3 fights and Dynamax just breaks the game. Generally every fight boils down to who can do the right stat boosts first, then hit dynamax and win with three OHKO attacks. The lesser pokemon number just destroyed the meta as a whole because you can't bring out oddball pokemon that you figured out a neat trick with. Remember Funbro? Dynamax also isn't as balanced as Z moves because it it's not just 1 rule breaking attack, it's 3 turns of them. Mega evolution may have raised stats and altered types/abilities, but in many cases it just made worthless pokemon viable for competitive sequences.

Data said:
The game is overall pretty lackluster.
Personally, I think Sword and Shield suffers from the lack of development into the world. If you've beaten the post-game, think back; are there any places you haven't been? Of course not! There are no pseudo-legendaries that accompany optional side areas, no holes-in-the-wall to make you feel like you've discovered something, no deep lore leaving you wondering about the events not explicitly explained. Just too much focus on the Wild Area.
Yes, it is cool that you can meet others and play together with them. No, that is not a function that should involve ALL your resources.

What the game suffers the most is that Game Freak did less with more. The Switch is the strongest piece of hardware they've made a Pokemon game for, but the lack of thought beyond combat balancing through roster slashing shows.
What? Battle Tower?
Oh, that thing can be cheesed through Eternus with Choice Specs, the respective tooldog, and a beefy Wishiwashi.

After completing the Dex a little over a week in, I find very little incentive to return to playing. I'm not a competitive player, so IV hunting is moot. Shiny hunting ditched the chaining aspect, so the ONLY skill that matters is patience.
Is that shiny wooloo REALLY worth several hours of muttony genocide with no certain payoff?

I get the feeling that Game Freak is planning to expand the world through DLC and future content patches, but that doesn't solve the issues with how bare-bones it is at the moment.

Here is something I came up with as a prediction:

1: Gamefreak employees admitted that Little Town Hero (Gear Project) had the majority of employees working on it (Team A). That game is done now. Also, the first chapters of pokemon games of a generation also face a deadline to match up with the merchandise and the anime and are prone to lackluster post-game and flaws. However, now gamefreak is at 100% strength and doesn't have a strict timetable to throw out another pokemon game.
2: Hackers and programmers alike have noted how inept gamefreak is at coding and a rather realistic rumor states that B team BROKE the importer to bring the pokemon models into the game, causing a rush to hire on a bunch of temp workers (the word of 1,000 working on the game) to fix said importer. Instead of admitting this, they fabricated 3 lies to explain the cut (balancing, remaking models from scratch, and enhanced animations).
3: Masuda's response to the wicked backlash of the dex cut was to imply that the next game will also feature just as bad a cut, but with the pokemon shuffled around "so maybe your favorite will come back". There was also a strict "no comment" policy when being asked if the next game would contain the full dex.
Prediction 1: "Ultra"
I predict a year from now, gamefreak will release an "ultra" version of sword and shield. This game will be akin to ultra sun/moon where it actually is just the same game, albeit actually finished. The entire roster of pokemon will be obtainable because "we listened to the fans and realized this is what you want, and totally not because we broke the importer and lied to your faces, now give us money."
Prediction 2: "Past gen"
I predict a year from now, remakes of Diamond and Pearl will be made, similar to how X and Y never got a 3rd game or a sequel and instead a remake of the first GBA games was made (with arguably the best feature, the battle frontier, cut). These games will STILL NOT contain the full dex of 880 pokemon, will have some notable feature cut, and not address major flaws such as a toggle for experience share.
Prediction 3: "Ultra past gen"
A combination of the two; we'll get a Gen 4 remake, we'll get the full dex to return, but the story of Gen 4 will suddenly revolve around dynamax. The return of the full dex will be accompanied by "we listened to the fans and realized this is what you want, and totally not because we broke the importer and lied to your faces, now give us money."
Bonus Prediction: The next game will have many crippling flaws, but people will still buy it anyway, thus Gamefreak will continue to do low effort and make mad bank just because the game they released has the name "Pokemon" on the cover.

Daneasaur said:
Sadly it isn't, and it specifically because online is 3 vs 3 fights and Dynamax just breaks the game. Generally every fight boils down to who can do the right stat boosts first, then hit dynamax and win with three OHKO attacks. The lesser pokemon number just destroyed the meta as a whole because you can't bring out oddball pokemon that you figured out a neat trick with. Remember Funbro? Dynamax also isn't as balanced as Z moves because it it's not just 1 rule breaking attack, it's 3 turns of them. Mega evolution may have raised stats and altered types/abilities, but in many cases it just made worthless pokemon viable for competitive sequences.

Here is something I came up with as a prediction:

1: Gamefreak employees admitted that Little Town Hero (Gear Project) had the majority of employees working on it (Team A). That game is done now. Also, the first chapters of pokemon games of a generation also face a deadline to match up with the merchandise and the anime and are prone to lackluster post-game and flaws. However, now gamefreak is at 100% strength and doesn't have a strict timetable to throw out another pokemon game.

You're forgetting about 4v4 doubles, which are the standard format for VGC events.

Yeah, I COULD raise my stats before attacking. But if I have a special sweeper up against somebody spamming Swords Dance, wouldn't it make more sense to just hit em with Moonblast right away? Or ruin their day by confusing and paralyzing them? Dynamaxing (and especially Gigantimaxing) also creates additional effects that work much better in doubles than singles, making those "neat tricks" even more effective. Raw power isn't the only way to play, and that's exactly why I keep coming back to the games. This is what I call fun.

Also, your info's off. Little Town Hero only had a team of about 40-60 (and a good portion of those were contractors), only a fraction of SwSh's 300. GF's main goal with Team 1 is their Gear Project, which is prioritizing new original ideas to help train new employees during downtime between Pokemon games, while Team 2 is dedicated to Pokemon. Every game from Gear Project has a relatively small number of credited workers.

-Ky- said:
Also, your info's off. Little Town Hero only had a team of about 40-60 (and a good portion of those were contractors), only a fraction of SwSh's 300. GF's main goal with Team 1 is their Gear Project, which is prioritizing new original ideas to help train new employees during downtime between Pokemon games, while Team 2 is dedicated to Pokemon. Every game from Gear Project has a relatively small number of credited workers.

Gamefreak consists of 136 employees. We can write off easily 36 of them as not being active programmers. A team of 60, specifically, team A, which is the team that normally makes the pokemon games (other than sun/moon) is over half of the available on-hand employees.

Next, the 300 employees? Strange how there aren't 300 employees in gamefreak, no? That would be the outside source they had to emergency temp hire to fix the broken import device and rush the games out by release date.

But since you're discussing a game being made by a small team of people, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 had a maximum of 50 people working on it and Monolithsoft doesn't have nearly the money backing that gamefreak does.

And look how much better every aspect of that game is while only having two prior games mechanics to go off of and doesn't re use hardly any assets.

Daneasaur said:
Gamefreak consists of 136 employees. We can write off easily 36 of them as not being active programmers. A team of 60, specifically, team A, which is the team that normally makes the pokemon games (other than sun/moon) is over half of the available on-hand employees.

Next, the 300 employees? Strange how there aren't 300 employees in gamefreak, no? That would be the outside source they had to emergency temp hire to fix the broken import device and rush the games out by release date.

But since you're discussing a game being made by a small team of people, Xenoblade Chronicles 2 had a maximum of 50 people working on it and Monolithsoft doesn't have nearly the money backing that gamefreak does.

And look how much better every aspect of that game is while only having two prior games mechanics to go off of and doesn't re use hardly any assets.

So, given all the discussion that's been had over this topic, what ultimately do you think caused this game to be a shell compared to older games?

Laziness? Greed? Technology?

I find this whole discussion interesting.

Steel_Warrior said:
So, given all the discussion that's been had over this topic, what ultimately do you think caused this game to be a shell compared to older games?

Laziness? Greed? Technology?

I find this whole discussion interesting.

Merchandising. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYU51Gebx4w&t=3m12s

Pivo said:
Merchandising. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYU51Gebx4w&t=3m12s

This, plus greed, but not necessarily on Gamefreak's part. The Pokemon Company is in charge of licensing most if not all of Pokemon's merchandise, and as acting publishers along with Nintendo, they probably have more control over scheduling and development funds than Gamefreak. The cards, anime, etc were likely already ready to go before November (note that the anime didn't immediately start with Ash going to Galar this time, and apparently isn't even entirely focused on gen 8), all that was left was the games. I personally think it's odd that Nintendo publicly addressed that Animal Crossing and Metroid Prime had issues and needed to be delayed, but nothing was said about Pokemon even after this whole thing started.

Steel_Warrior said:
So, given all the discussion that's been had over this topic, what ultimately do you think caused this game to be a shell compared to older games?

Laziness? Greed? Technology?

I find this whole discussion interesting.

As stated by the others; Merchandising and a corporate fist from The Pokemon Company, which makes MOST of it's bank from the plushies, the cards, and the anime.

Take a look at ALL other nintendo franchise games as of late and how Nintendo treated them:
-With Super Mario Maker, fans cried out that they really wanted multiplayer function in it, Nintendo says "oh okay, we'll patch that in ASAP."

-Metroid Prime 4 had NO news on it. Fans were worried about this as it means there is usually development issues. We ask again and again, what is up, and finally nintendo comes clean; "Development wasn't going how we liked, and with the success of Samus Returns and how important Metroid is to it's dedicated fanbase, we decided to throw out all the previous development and start over. Retro Studios isn't working on anything and so they can dedicate 100% of their resources to this endeavor so that the title lives up to the name of Metroid Prime." They disabled the comments on the video, but the voting was overwhelmingly positive.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLIv_UXI_So
Tie this in with rumors that, before Samus Returns was released, Prime 4's development was split between no less than 3 developers, and it is highly likely that the positive reception of Samus Returns played a heavy hand in Nintendo realizing how important it was to make sure the game came out right.

-Animal crossing is in the same boat as it was delayed nearly an entire year, yet all anyone had to say was "I can wait for a perfect game".

The fans are willing to wait for a game to be [chef kiss] mwa, perfect rather than being rushed out the door to meet a deadline, especially nintendo fans, so that would mean something ELSE has a hand in Pokemon's fate, and that would be the pokemon company and their drive to just sell the peripheral products instead of allowing perfectly passionate developers who are both able and skilled enough to make a grandiose pokemon game worth of the legacy.

I mean, imagine this as a concept: The next pokemon game is a game that is vast; it's near open world with wild environments akin to Xenoblade, pokemon act specific to their environmental areas with Spiders hiding in webs, bats and birds swooping down on your head, and so on, but it is taking a long time in development. Meanwhile, the rest of the pokemon company is putting out merch of the new pokemon, ideas of the new region through the anime and cards. In general, I could only see it making the fans want the games even more to explore this world and encounter these pokemon themselves.

But this is what happens when you are too far detached from the actual fanbase and are only looking at a bottom line.

The lack of any comments is likely due to The Pokemon Company acting like evil overlords to Gamefreak with the news that Masuda kept looking over at the reps who were off camera during a specific interview.

Cases like this really makes me side with fangames and rom hacks. Most of them have had more care and effort out into them than Game Freak does these days (Examples: Insurgence and Reborn).