skafunk said:
Yikes, I'm all for trans people but honestly I've never actually thought of the phrase in that way..

I mean, there's nothing especially dramatic or wrong about it. Not to say it hasn't become a meme, but it's still a nice way to show solidarity.

millyficent said:
I mean, there's nothing especially dramatic or wrong about it. Not to say it hasn't become a meme, but it's still a nice way to show solidarity.

Heh the danger, I guess, is that attaching anything to furry is never good for wide spread support :P

randomguy85 said:
Nah, it's just another worthless virtue signalling campaign that accomplishes nothing.

I've seen that term -- virtue signalling -- thrown around a lot, especially with the whole trans pride thing, and I've never known why it's a bad thing. A quick Google search explains what exactly it is, but to me there's never been a connection between "demonstrating how correct someone is through political commentary" and "this trend must stop immediately".

As Millyficent has already commented, it is indeed a good way to show solidarity. I'd imagine it would be way harder for most trans people to live day-to-day with themselves if all they saw were the gender critical folk and the only people to confirm their validity were other transgender people.

arriss said:
I've seen that term -- virtue signalling -- thrown around a lot, especially with the whole trans pride thing, and I've never known why it's a bad thing. A quick Google search explains what exactly it is, but to me there's never been a connection between "demonstrating how correct someone is through political commentary" and "this trend must stop immediately".

As Millyficent has already commented, it is indeed a good way to show solidarity. I'd imagine it would be way harder for most trans people to live day-to-day with themselves if all they saw were the gender critical folk and the only people to confirm their validity were other transgender people.

If we're being honest, calling something "virtue signalling" is a nice way to demonstrate that you're unusually -- sometimes suspiciously -- angry about something that ultimately has no effect on you. ;V

the term "virtue signal" is, in itself, "virtue signalling."

also how come whenever trans people show up on this site, people always turn the comments into a shitfit? youre cool with jerkin your gherkin to chicks with dicks but youre offended when they say that theyre people too

burgerfall said:
also how come whenever trans people show up on this site, people always turn the comments into a shitfit? youre cool with jerkin your gherkin to chicks with dicks but youre offended when they say that theyre people too

From what I can tell, there's a lot of "weh keep (insert real world issue) out of my furry business". While I think it's important to bring these issues to light, some people just do not want to see it whatsoever and I can't change their mind -- in which case, they need to pull up the tag blacklist instead of making rude comments. And some people look like they're actively following up with trans pride posts just to make rude comments.

camkitty said:
Yeah virtue signalling is wierd when people suddenly care when they never have. Especially when companies think I care about thier opinions. No, activision, I don't care what your company thinks, just keep making games

People "suddenly caring" isn't that big of a problem tbh. Taking at face value, there's nothing inherently wrong about it. And it can be "sudden" because people can just not be aware of an issue until it's brought up to them, or they are aware but they won't try to shove politics/other issues into everything they do unless it's relevant at the moment.

Corporations, though, I'm more skeptical about. If there's action being taken, not just words, that's good. I just take issue with the ones that put out a front of action or solidarity while actually being antithetical to it in how they operate, like with Activision/Blizzard as you mentioned.

arriss said:
From what I can tell, there's a lot of "weh keep (insert real world issue) out of my furry business". While I think it's important to bring these issues to light, some people just do not want to see it whatsoever and I can't change their mind -- in which case, they need to pull up the tag blacklist instead of making rude comments. And some people look like they're actively following up with trans pride posts just to make rude comments.

People "suddenly caring" isn't that big of a problem tbh. Taking at face value, there's nothing inherently wrong about it. And it can be "sudden" because people can just not be aware of an issue until it's brought up to them, or they are aware but they won't try to shove politics/other issues into everything they do unless it's relevant at the moment.

Corporations, though, I'm more skeptical about. If there's action being taken, not just words, that's good. I just take issue with the ones that put out a front of action or solidarity while actually being antithetical to it in how they operate, like with Activision/Blizzard as you mentioned.

I get that, and definitely agree about corporations. I still kind of feel it for people to. LIke I can tell if something is something people always felt since their opinion is usually nuanced with experience. Suddenly caring and going completely extreme to one side smacks of bandwagoning to me. But it's whatever.

The one that bugs me is businesses. I don't care what they think, just give me the product I want :P

randomguy85 said:
Nah, it's just another worthless virtue signalling campaign that accomplishes nothing.

At it again, browsing the lgbt pride tag only to comment something distasteful on any art you see. Its art on a website, dude. Get a life.

randomguy85 said:
Nah, it's just another worthless virtue signalling campaign that accomplishes nothing.

Who pissed in your cornflakes, friend?

A new profile picture

millyficent said:
If we're being honest, calling something "virtue signalling" is a nice way to demonstrate that you're unusually -- sometimes suspiciously -- angry about something that ultimately has no effect on you. ;V

Someone said it. SOMEONE FINALLY FUCKIN SAID IT, HALLE-FUCKIN-LUJAH, HOLY SHIT.

metallosexual said:
Who pissed in your cornflakes, friend?

the trans, apparently

vulpeslaslunes said:
you so know why people say that about virtue signaling yeah? cause people who virtual signal are NOT on your side and just trying to score brownie points so they don't get thrown under the bus. the modern social justice trend is a serpent that'll eat its own tail into oblivion if left alone.

also why are normalizing mental illnesses?

If the followers of the same religions holy wars were fought over can now co-exist while disagreeing, there is no reason that we as a modern society can't let others do what ever the fuck they want to do with their own bodies without giving a shit. Because lets be real, there are topics of everyday life that you actually care about which, other people you know have different believes or opinions on. But, we don't actually give a shit and it doesn't effect our abilities to get along with one another. Normalize co-existence in general.

Trans rights are human rights!

shadowmarine said:
Trans, male, female... We all have white bones and red blood. Everything else is irrelevant.

Trans isnt a gender in itself

metallosexual said:
Who pissed in your cornflakes, friend?

Sorry, that was me. I'll take 'em if you don't want 'em.

Human rights are Human rights

Agreed U,,w,,U

Xenia is based

I realize discussions about tagging transgender characters' genders on e621 are always a cesspool but

There are visible breasts, in addition to the long hair and the fact that she's literally waving a transgender pride flag and saying "trans rights."

In what way is this possibly an ambiguous_gender?

kjorteo said:
I realize discussions about tagging transgender characters' genders on e621 are always a cesspool but

There are visible breasts, in addition to the long hair and the fact that she's literally waving a transgender pride flag and saying "trans rights."

In what way is this possibly an ambiguous_gender?

My guess is that it was tagged as "androgynous" (which is fair), but the "androgynous" tag is apparently just an alias for ambiguous_gender for whatever reason. (I get 'tag what you see', but 'girly' is its own tag so who knows.)

jaya said:
My guess is that it was tagged as "androgynous" (which is fair), but the "androgynous" tag is apparently just an alias for ambiguous_gender for whatever reason. (I get 'tag what you see', but 'girly' is its own tag so who knows.)

I mean, even by TWYS standards on a clothed SFW piece without visible genitalia, I would have expected long hair and boobs to read female. Especially since there are other pictures of Xenia with the same circumstances (post #2059677 and post #2936018 for example) that are tagged as such.

I'm just gonna go ahead and change this one.

kjorteo said:
I realize discussions about tagging transgender characters' genders on e621 are always a cesspool but

There are visible breasts, in addition to the long hair and the fact that she's literally waving a transgender pride flag and saying "trans rights."

In what way is this possibly an ambiguous_gender?

Given the posture and context, I thought it was male with a baggy shirt, maybe mtf trans--plenty of guys around with ponytails and bangs.

blackasnight said:
Given the posture and context, I thought it was male with a baggy shirt, maybe mtf trans--plenty of guys around with ponytails and bangs.

MtF trans would be female as well. That is what the F stands for, after all.

I know this site stirs up a lot of controversy by sticking so rigidly to the "penises are for boys, vaginas are for girls" thing despite the fact that trans people exist, but at least the site doesn't expect one to need to see genitalia to infer gender in a fully clothed SFW piece. (If it did, then you had best get started on changing every single SFW post on the entire site to ambiguous_gender just in case, right? You never know what may be in those pants, after all....)

I know I'm just making this worse but, isn't the whole point of transgender is to make sure there are no more trans people in the world? (since being trans means you're in the wrong body, and the point is to put people in the right body. Therefore not making them trans.)

keelanbarron said:
I know I'm just making this worse but, isn't the whole point of transgender is to make sure there are no more trans people in the world? (since being trans means you're in the wrong body, and the point is to put people in the right body. Therefore not making them trans.)

I'm going to assume this quetion was asked in good faith from a genuine position of not knowing and wanting to know, and will answer it in kind. Honestly, that logic isn't necessarily bad or wrong at first glance, and I can see how someone unfamiliar with certain trans issues could get that impression. Like, it's not necessarily a bad guess? So no offense taken just for asking or anything.

That said, to answer that question, the problem is that it sounds logical enough at a first glance surface kind of read but it falls apart as an oversimplification once one gets a bit deeper into the weeds.

How far each individual transgender person chooses to go in their respective journeys can vary. Due to availability in the area where they live, cost, potential medical complications, and sheer personal preference, not everyone is able or even necessarily interested in getting sexual reassignment surgery or even hormone replacement therapy. Even for those who plan to, it can take a while to get there.

And that's just for the more straightforward MtF or FtM trans folk. What about nonbinary or genderfluid people, people for whom gynemorphic or andromorphic or even completely androgynous bodies *are* the desired final form?

Finally, even if you set all of that aside and assume that all trans people want to complete their transitions to the point that they don't consider themselves trans anymore, it's still a perfectly valid thing to depict, feature, honor, and celebrate their progress along the way, for the same reason people still take baby pictures even though those babies are just going to be adults someday anyway.

Thank you for the question, hopefully this helps shed some light!

blackasnight said:
sighs at own simplicity I respect the validity of all genders and think that all images should be tagged with ambiguous_gender, if at all. But, it is my understanding that the site's users are, on balance, lazy and short sighted and are therefore using 'gender' incorrectly in context and really mean sex. Yes, male, female, man, and woman do not equate. No, being transgender does not "automatically" make one a different sex.
This does not invalidate my comment. As far as I could see, the (clearly not human thing which my brain is not programmed to correctly sex at a glance) character above was male, irrespective of its gender.

Although the character is mtf trans, they are very obviously stylized as female so the tag is female by TWYS standards. This is irrespective of whether or not they have always been like this.

closeted257 said:
Time to talk about trans wrongs

*Wheezes in MtF*
what do you know exactly? *cocks 9mm*

carima_your_gal said:

*Wheezes in MtF*
what do you know exactly? *cocks 9mm*

Mobile Task Force trans gals en-route

shadowmarine said:
My point is that's all external: Inside, we all run off the same vital parts. It baffles me humanity is so determined to split itself into categories, when that only ever harms every party involved.

That's not entirely true. There are biological differences between males and females, males are physically stronger and larger while females are smaller, being an obvious one, or that males have a better sense of direction while females have a better sense of color, and of course the male(sex) with a penis and the female(sex) with a negative penis.

The problem is that when noting these genuine differences, we thought it meant one of which was the superior, thus the common patriarchy and the very rare matriarchy. And also the racism. But we recognized that gender, sex, and sexuality is something that is not so black and white, at least until Christianity came around. With modern technology and research, we know there are dozens upon dozens of various genders and sexes simply due to the fact that your brain, body, and chemicals could all think they are different genders/sexes.

We are not equal, but we are equals.

172 upvotes
56 comments
Trans flag in the image

Uh oh

keelanbarron said:
I know I'm just making this worse but, isn't the whole point of transgender is to make sure there are no more trans people in the world? (since being trans means you're in the wrong body, and the point is to put people in the right body. Therefore not making them trans.)

I can see the logic.

camkitty said:
Heh the danger, I guess, is that attaching anything to furry is never good for wide spread support :P

Pretty much, it can be the kiss of death for it.

alexzarashi said:
Trans people in first world countries have the same rights as everybody else.
This newer younger generation simply needs to learn the difference between *rights* and *wants*.

Indeed you should, given trans people can be legally discriminated against in more states than we have protections. If you were a landlord in Idaho (or any of the other 27 states with no legal protections), you couldn't evict someone on the basis of them being a woman, or black, or a muslim, but it's totally legal to evict trans people for no reason beyond being trans. The same issue with jobs exist, though a court ruling in mid 2020 may nudge things to be a little more equal. You shouldn't state things so confidently if you haven't even bothered a cursory google search. Things aren't equal yet, but at least some progress is being made, and that's only because we talk about it. :\

elori said:
Indeed you should, given trans people can be legally discriminated against in more states than we have protections. If you were a landlord in Idaho (or any of the other 27 states with no legal protections), you couldn't evict someone on the basis of them being a woman, or black, or a muslim, but it's totally legal to evict trans people for no reason beyond being trans. The same issue with jobs exist, though a court ruling in mid 2020 may nudge things to be a little more equal. You shouldn't state things so confidently if you haven't even bothered a cursory google search. Things aren't equal yet, but at least some progress is being made, and that's only because we talk about it. :\

That and people getting mad at us for pink capitalism. Like... for the most part queer people as a whole to my knowledge dislike corporatization of our existence. In the same way, and I will say a thousand times over, My existence isnt political all I want is to be treated like a normal woman. No, I will not deny that i'm trans, Its part of who I am and my development as a human. Do i want others to treat me differently because i'm trans? HELL NO

Toataly gnarly duded

pearlnecklace said:
the trans, apparently

we piss in eveones cornflakes, they're just the ones who found out

carima_your_gal said:
That and people getting mad at us for pink capitalism. Like... for the most part queer people as a whole to my knowledge dislike corporatization of our existence. In the same way, and I will say a thousand times over, My existence isnt political all I want is to be treated like a normal woman. No, I will not deny that i'm trans, Its part of who I am and my development as a human. Do i want others to treat me differently because i'm trans? HELL NO

Reminds me of this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KXpHo3qhFQ Corporate pride stuff creeps me out, especially given most of them support anti-lgbt politicians.

beanmanmcgee said:
172 upvotes
56 comments
Trans flag in the image

Uh oh

And yet I read it all anyways, because I have nothing better to do.

Trans rights baybee!

50,000 people used to live here. Now it's a ghost town.

skafunk said:
edit: I wasn't educated enough about this complex issue, when I seemingly agreed with another user's bad take about the Trans Rights phrase on this comment section. I'm very sorry for what I've said.

It's great that you were able to learn and move past that phase. It's always great to question things and learn more!

Based Xenia (Linux fox)

What Carima said.

It's important to understand the difference between the rights people technically have on paper, and the rights they enjoy in practice after accounting for the fact that law enforcement officers, judges, etc. are human, and prone to human biases.

You have the right not to be subjected to unreasonable search and seizure, which includes protection from being pulled over for absolutely no reason other than the cop felt like it and had a quota to meet. If you weren't giving any actual probable cause to be pulled over (speeding, driving erratically as if drunk, etc.) then you have the right to be left alone. It's right there, in writing and everything. Problem solved, no need for anyone to complain ever again, right?

If a cop lies and says you were swerving or otherwise giving them cause to pull you over (you weren't,) lies and says you were belligerent with them and they felt threatened (you weren't, they didn't) and beats the shit out of you while shouting "Stop resisting!" as if that's fooling anyone, and you can't do anything about it because the FOP circles the wagons and protects their own whenever anyone launches investigations (Thin Blue Line and all,) no one wants to investigate, no one wants to press charges even if they did, and no one wants to vote "guilty" at trial even if they did, then those rights you have on paper don't really mean a lot in practice, do they? And if something like that happens to a particular group of people more often than other groups of people, than that singled-out group could be said to have fewer rights than others, even if "this piece of paper says right here that they're totally equal you guys, I don't see the problem here."

You know, as one example.

Add in equally "soft" (can you prove it was for discriminatory reasons? And would the courts believe or side with you if you could?) abuses in cases of housing discrimination, employment termination or at least being passed over for promotions, how hard doctors actually try to save you if you need healthcare....

On that last one, trans people are particularly vulnerable because just being trans implies a certain amount of reliance on healthcare--barring the DIY pirate routes, most of us need doctors for everything from our hormone therapy to SRS/GRS, let alone any complications or side effects that could arise from these, let alone any unrelated symptoms that someone could claim is a complication or side effect that arises from these ("You broke your arm in a car accident? Well, I see on your chart that you've been taking estradiol, which this one random study I just made up claims could be linked to brittle bones....") Certain state legislatures are hard at work as we speak trying to ban doctors from practicing any sort of gender-affirming healthcare--no hormones, no anything. But hey, we still have freedom of speech and guns and stuff just like everyone else, so no problem, we have rights and we're not getting persecuted, right?

Please take care of, love, and appreciate yourself if you see this. God loves you beautiful bastards, each and every one, and so made you lot to spread that love amongst each-other.

Someday, all of this strife will be remembered as a distant past, and I hope you folks are rightfully remembered as the ones who forged ahead for future generations.

also the image is really cool I like it a lot :)

I love how after decades of "we need more women in STEM" activism didn't do anything to improve the gender balance of those fields, the solution turned out to be simply becoming the woman yourself. Guess the old adage holds true, if you don't fix it, nobody else will.

Ack

great image!
my freedoms to change my own body and express myself should be upheld, if that upsets you look at what site you're on lmao

skafunk said:
edit: I wasn't educated enough about this complex issue, when I seemingly agreed with another user's bad take about the Trans Rights phrase on this comment section. I'm very sorry for what I've said.

Character development

kjorteo said:
I realize discussions about tagging transgender characters' genders on e621 are always a cesspool but

There are visible breasts, in addition to the long hair and the fact that she's literally waving a transgender pride flag and saying "trans rights."

In what way is this possibly an ambiguous_gender?

from what i've heard xenia was originally designed to be androgynous when first suggested as the linux mascot, so that might be why

pearlnecklace said:
Someone said it. SOMEONE FINALLY FUCKIN SAID IT, HALLE-FUCKIN-LUJAH, HOLY SHIT.

*unless you live in canada

OOCI said:
What in the hell happened/is happening here

Diminution of the hardships endured by a systemically oppressed people. Most people can't internalize the extent to which trans people have been oppressed, likely because their main exposure to transgender individuals is either through porn or through media (social, news, etc). Honestly anti-gay and anti-trans furries purplex me. You wouldn't expect fans of artistic interspecies breeding to carry hatred based on identity or appearance, it makes very little sense when you really think about it. I do believe it's a small and vocal minority of the community that feels this way, however

Wow! Much fun! Arguing on a porn site. This is great!

Idk what all the fuss is about tis just a piece of cloth
This a porn site not twitter smh

odisaodi said:
Something being abnormal/uncommon does not mean there is anything wrong with it.

As a Firefox & Linux user, I feel seen right now.