Surprised Gallade and Kartana aren't here.

fullblast said:
Surprised Gallade and Kartana aren't here.

To be far, Kartana is an Ultra Beast, and therefore dumb

nightlord14 said:
To be far, Kartana is an Ultra Beast, and therefore dumb

That doesn't make any sense. It's still a living sword.

fullblast said:
That doesn't make any sense. It's still a living sword.

But not a living sword Pokémon. Big difference

nightlord14 said:
But not a living sword Pokémon. Big difference

Kartana has Katana's for arms. Sirfetch'd isn't even a living sword. And Escavilier and Falinks have spears.

fullblast said:
Kartana has Katana's for arms. Sirfetch'd isn't even a living sword. And Escavilier and Falinks have spears.

Still not technically a Pokémon, also since I'm already being technical, Escavilier actually uses lances.

nightlord14 said:
Still not technically a Pokémon, also since I'm already being technical, Escavilier actually uses lances.

Kartana is a pokemon.
It can be caught by any PokeBalls.
A Cry.
Has a Typing.
A Shiny.
And access to moves that other Pokemon also know.
It's an Interdimensional Pokemon.

fullblast said:
Kartana is a pokemon.
It can be caught by any PokeBalls.
A Cry.
Has a Typing.
A Shiny.
And access to moves that other Pokemon also know.
It's an Interdimensional Pokemon.

Interdimensional Pokémon clearly don't count as real Pokémon then, because Ultra Beast

nightlord14 said:
Interdimensional Pokémon clearly don't count as real Pokémon then, because Ultra Beast

By your logic; Man-Made,Legendaries and Mythicals aren't Pokemon.

Give it up Ultra Beasts are Pokemon.

fullblast said:
By your logic; Man-Made,Legendaries and Mythicals aren't Pokemon.

Give it up Ultra Beasts are Pokemon.

I might be willing to accept that condition actually. Looking at it from a phylogenetics perspective, I'd argue that Mew being the LUCA of all modern Pokémon means that to be a Pokémon you have to have evolved from Mew (evolve in the real life sense). So man-made Pokémon aren't true Pokémon, legendaries like Arceus and the beings he directly created aren't true Pokémon. I'd say roughly half the mythical Pokémon don't qualify as true Pokémon under these condition.

nightlord14 said:
I might be willing to accept that condition actually. Looking at it from a phylogenetics perspective, I'd argue that Mew being the LUCA of all modern Pokémon means that to be a Pokémon you have to have evolved from Mew (evolve in the real life sense). So man-made Pokémon aren't true Pokémon, legendaries like Arceus and the beings he directly created aren't true Pokémon. I'd say roughly half the mythical Pokémon don't qualify as true Pokémon under these condition.

The box cover Legendaries of Sun and Moon can't be called Pokemon because Cosmog isn't from the pokemon universe. That's what I understand to be a pokemon: a non-human creature from that universe. The whole definition of it is so broad the bacteria I brush out of my mouth could be a pokemon. Am extremely shit pokemon, but still.

dr_swag said:
The box cover Legendaries of Sun and Moon can't be called Pokemon because Cosmog isn't from the pokemon universe. That's what I understand to be a pokemon: a non-human creature from that universe. The whole definition of it is so broad the bacteria I brush out of my mouth could be a pokemon. Am extremely shit pokemon, but still.

As my theory stands that is correct: cosmog, its evolutionary line, and any ultra beast wouldn't qualify as true Pokémon. Defining what a Pokémon exactly is can be tricky depending on the criteria, which is why I use Mew as a baseline, as it's canonically considered the first true Pokémon. This helps to reduce the scope of the definition to avoid the problem you mentioned of it being too broad. Following that logic disqualifies a lot of legendary Pokémon too as a good number of them seemingly predate the existence of Mew as a species. We also know spontaneous generation of life happens in the Pokémon universe, as we have examples of Unown creating Pokémon from nothing, the most notable example being Arceus directly using the Unown to create a member of the creation trio in HG/SS. Really this leave the door open for any number of Pokémon to not qualify as true Pokémon. A good number of them could've have just been created, but typically I play by the rule of plausibility, when it comes to legendaries at least: If a Mew could plausibly evolve into it over time, it's likely a Pokémon. If it's more likely to have been created, it probably was. So something like Shaymin or Victini is likely a highly derived Mew relative. Meanwhile, something like Regigigas seems pretty likely to have been created, whether by humans or something else I couldn't say, but my money is on Arceus or just the Unown. Completely off topic, while I was discussing this with a friend he suggested a cute idea for exactly how Arceus goes about creating thing, suggesting that since they're letter Arceus creates by spelling the name of the Pokémon. The logic is a little circular, but it was just such a neat idea that I had to mention it.

I'm sure it's obvious but I've but a lot of thought into this topic ^^" I have a fascination with phylogenetics, so it only makes sense that I'd combine that fascination with my love of Pokémon. I suppose you can call me a Poképhylogeneticist :3