No? :(

furbag said:
No? :(

I think Keith is saying “no” because he can’t lose them. He already lost them when he started drinking after losing his wife and not spending much time with his kids…

Take a third option.
Pee on everything.

Keith’s trackrecord for asserting himself as shown thus far has been… lacking. And costly. So his firm disagreement comes to me as a somewhat pleasant surprise. Of course he’s not the only “grownup” with the power to assert himself in the predicament he at least accepts responsibility for. Guess we’ll learn soon enough if Jayden got at least that much through to him: His kids are too old to infantilize.

post #2977401

stay_hydrated said:
Take a third option.
Pee on everything.

Better stay hydrated then

No?

Ohhhh…. I don’t think it’s anger here. He’s ashamed that his behavior (and selfishness) likely caused the kids to be in this situation. I’m not sure, but I think he’s choosing to man up and be dad.

It might be too little, and too late, but he wants to try and make it right that’s my guess.

I'll be sad if this means he's gonna try to break them up, but I also think he'd be doing the right thing as a parent. Kinda relieved in some facet.

My prediction is that this is a "No. I won't lose them too. I will do the right thing as a father and I won't fail them again." Kind of thing. Especially with how straight up his face and neck are, it's more of a self determination thing going on.

we will see the outcome

As much as I love the twins, it makes complete sense why Keith would want to break them up. If more people found out about them this could ruin their lives and it’s Keith’s responsibility as a father to protect them.

Good on ya Keith

The car is like a mile away and in sight. How did she manage to sneak up on him?

billybobbybooby said:
The car is like a mile away and in sight. How did she manage to sneak up on him?

You've never lost yourself in your own thoughts before have you?
Plus cars arnt that loud when the engine isnt running flat out. The door shutting would probably be the loudest thing here really and again Keith has a lot on his mind.

derangeder said:
I wonder what action Keith will take going forward. The right thing to do normally would be to break them up. But the furry world plays by different rules...

How would that be the right thing to do? Do you remember the previous panel? Jayden told him straight up that if he tried to break them up and it wasn't their choice to separate that it wouldn't resolve the issue and if anything would cause a rift between them causing the family to fall apart, then the twins would leave and continue their relationship anyway, and if anything it might want them to stay together even more because then they would be doing something against the rules of their father.

People are much more likely to become obstinate and more likely to keep doing what they are doing if you try to force them to stop. At that point they might continue the relationship even if they don't necessarily want to anymore just to prove that their position was correct to start with and that they should be together.

People very rarely want to admit when something they have done might be wrong. If anything it could end up harming their relationship because right now they are with each other because they want to be, but if he tries to force them to separate they could end up trying to be more forceful with the relationship than they want which could cause friction between them moving faster than they want.

Then later on you reach a situation where their relationship is either rocky or destroyed AND they no longer have a relationship with their father, so everyone loses.

So, no, breaking them up forcefully would not be the right answer in this situation.

Well this page ends on an ominous note

stay_hydrated said:
Take a third option.
Pee on everything.

Going to need that six pack for maximum effect on that option

BRO I CANT TAKE THIS EMOTIONAL ROLLERCOASTER CAN'T WE JUST HAVE SOME PORN AGAIN 😭😭😭😭😭

Is he gonna jump for real?

I'm expecting a plot twist, will it be in 1 page or 5?

I guess we're not gonna get a sex scene with Jayden are we...

cyclone said:
As much as I love the twins, it makes complete sense why Keith would want to break them up. If more people found out about them this could ruin their lives and it’s Keith’s responsibility as a father to protect them.

Well that, and the fact that any kind of inbreeding does cause genetic errors (normally not switched on in the sibling parent) to be a problem in incest offspring.

Nani?

stay_hydrated said:
Take a third option.
Pee on everything.

No

stay_hydrated said:
Take a third option.
Pee on everything.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXJIrbAm5LI

biglols said:
BRO I CANT TAKE THIS EMOTIONAL ROLLERCOASTER CAN'T WE JUST HAVE SOME PORN AGAIN 😭😭😭😭😭

Like: meanwhile ... back at the house

muddypaws said:
Well that, and the fact that any kind of inbreeding does cause genetic errors (normally not switched on in the sibling parent) to be a problem in incest offspring.

In the case of the twins .. genetic errors caused by furry inbreeding would have to be conceived in the artist's mind.

If Keith decides to take the forceful route, it's just going to end badly. The twins have already committed to each other, their bond is strong. Plus, if you remember, Jayden already supplied them with an escape route, should things go that way. Best thing he could possibly do is sit and talk with them about the situation.

These cliffside cliffhangers are killing me.

I cannot imagine Keith will crackdown on the twins, he cannot be that stubborn. The harder he pushes the harder they will push back, the best thing to do is to ride out the storm. But also to get the family into therapy.

My brain briefly imagined him saying "I'm going to join them" and what comedic mayhem would spawn from that. xD

BillyBobbyBooby said:
The car is like a mile away and in sight. How did she manage to sneak up on him?

That's like 400 ft at most

billybobbybooby said:
The car is like a mile away and in sight. How did she manage to sneak up on him?

I suspect Kieth was deep in thought .. it happens.

At first I was wanting something to fap to but now I have to know what happens next. This is really good! <3

No what?

"Not again. I've got to end this thing before it begins."

This series is only slated/planned through Sunday mornings, iirc. We'll see how this pans out but I'm starting to suspect that Saturday is almost over and Keith isn't going to handle this well.

muddypaws said:
Well that, and the fact that any kind of inbreeding does cause genetic errors (normally not switched on in the sibling parent) to be a problem in incest offspring.

Agreed. Though I'm not a 100% sure they cause genetic errors, but more like genetic diseases that are caused by recessive genes can only develop when those genes are present in and are inherited from both parents. As long as at least one of the two parents passes on a healthy, dominant gene it "overrides" the faulty, recessive one. Which is the reason that inbreeding has a higher risk of causing genetic diseases to develop since siblings would potentially both inherit a recessive gene like that and pass it on to their offspring. (Of course, there are also cases where only one abnormal gene is needed which leads to a dominant hereditary disorder, but those cases are not relevant for this topic here)

But, yes, from a non-porn, non-furry-logic, real-world point of view, this genetical concern is the only viable argument against incest, and it only applies when the people involved actually either plan to have offspring of their own or are not aware of the risk and act too careless.
Anything else is just a man-made problem, but nevertheless real, since the people around them (at least most of them) would probably cling to those norms and morals that they basically inherited from former generations instead of trying to think for themselves. They would judge them, shun them, and make their life harder in general, just as cyclone stated.

I don't know what brought on this rational rant of mine (maybe a lack of sleep and the fact that I'm still at work way past midnight waiting for things to happen XD ) but I'll stop it here and probably cringe tomorrow when I remember and re-read it (I mean, who the actual fuck discusses biology, genetics, and philosophy/morals in the comment section of what's supposed to be furry, incest, porn comic? XD )

(As a side note, I don't understand why people downvoted your comment... which might be a reason for this reply; just to say: yes, I agree XD )

jakegroene said:
I think Keith is saying “no” because he can’t lose them. He already lost them when he started drinking after losing his wife and not spending much time with his kids…

Judging by Jayden's reaction I don't think that's the case.

stay_hydrated said:
Take a third option.
Pee on everything.

hot

nobunagafirst said:
Continual incest discussion

Usually 1 generation isn't enough for significant genetic damage to become a real issue. Its after multiple generations of inbreeding abnormalities really start to show up.
Im not even sure its correct to call it damage or errors to begin with because its no different from non incestious reproduction. Baby gets an amalgam of dna based on parent a and parent b.
The issue i think stems from a lack of diversity in those genes. Resulting in genetic vulnerability’s of both parents being passed down to their kids.

neocat said:
Usually 1 generation isn't enough for significant genetic damage to become a real issue. Its after multiple generations of inbreeding abnormalities really start to show up.
Im not even sure its correct to call it damage or errors to begin with because its no different from non incestious reproduction. Baby gets an amalgam of dna based on parent a and parent b.
The issue i think stems from a lack of diversity in those genes. Resulting in genetic vulnerability’s of both parents being passed down to their kids.

So, I looked it up out of curiosity and I'll borrow this from the website of the 'National Human Genome Research Institute':

"A genetic disorder is a disease caused in whole or in part by a change in the DNA sequence away from the normal sequence. Genetic disorders can be caused by a mutation in one gene (monogenic disorder), by mutations in multiple genes (multifactorial inheritance disorder), by a combination of gene mutations and environmental factors, or by damage to chromosomes (changes in the number or structure of entire chromosomes, the structures that carry genes)."

So, 'damage' or 'errors' (at least in the sense of mutations that deviate from the normal state/sequence of a gene) are basically correct since those aren't bound to incestuous or non-incestuous reproduction. But - as you said yourself - the lack of genetic diversity in case of continued inbreeding is the main problem. More and more mutated or damaged genetic information can potentially be inherited by the offspring, causing these usually recessive genes to pile up with potentially less and less dominant, 'normal' (undamaged, non-mutated) genes to override them. From a cursory search, I didn't find anything about inbreeding causing damage/mutations. There are other reasons for that.

Also, as an interesting side note (which I found in the Wikipedia entry for Inbreeding), it seems that populations that continuously go through generations of inbreeding - e.g. populations of species living in isolated ecosystems - will slowly see those inherited genetic diseases getting culled (natural selection, higher pre- and postnatal mortality rates, etc.)

(this is the reason why I love the comment section here. Every now and then you find interesting discussions about god-knows-what XD )

The general rule of thumb is it doubles the chance of any given genetic error each generation.

So a 1% chance of a specific issue becomes 2 then 4 then 8.

horsemonger said:
The general rule of thumb is it doubles the chance of any given genetic error each generation.

So a 1% chance of a specific issue becomes 2 then 4 then 8.

I... hmmm, after thinking about it for a while and looking some things up, I'd say no, not necessarily.
(first of all, not a native English speaker here, so I apologize for incorrect grammar and stupid, hard-to-understand sentences in advance XD)

The thing is, we - well, at least we humans specifically - have 46 chromosomes (had to look that one up; it has been far too long since I learned that to remember it by now XD).
44 of those are basically pairs of copies of each other, the other two are the sex chromosomes that define if we are born male or female (physically speaking, at least). That's important because each chromosome contains thousands of genes.
So we basically have two copies of every genetic information in our bodies. And we have those two copies because that is what we get from our parents: 23 chromosomes from the father, 23 from the mother.

Now all the information we get from our parents in the form of those genes in the end sum up to 'us'.
Though it depends if those genes have a dominant-recessive relationship or an intermediate one.

Dominant-recessive means that one gene (dominant) overrules the other (recessive).
For example: your dad has green eyes and your mom has blue ones. Your mom's blue eyes are bound to a recessive gene while your dad's green ones are bound to a dominant one, meaning that in the end, you get your dad's green eyes.

Intermediate means that the information of both genes get mixed:
For example: your dad has a darker skin tone and your mom has a lighter one. If the genes holding those pieces of information are intermediate, you will not end up with the same skin tone as either your mom or dad, but somewhere in between.

From what I found, damaged or mutated genes - the kind we were talking about in regard to inherited genetic diseases - are usually recessive, meaning that as long as you also inherit a healthy, dominant one you are fine.
So in case one of both parents has one of those 'faulty' recessive genes and one healthy, dominant one (remember, all those information comes in pairs), and the other one has two healthy, dominant ones, the chance of offspring inheriting the recessive one from the one parent is 50%, while it would always get a healthy one from the other parent. So the chance of developing a disease would be 0% since it would always get a healthy, dominant one from the other parent.
There would also be a 50% chance of getting the healthy one from the parent with one 'faulty' gene to end up with two healthy ones in total.

In case both parents have one of the 'faulty' recessive genes and one healthy, dominant one each, the chance of inheriting a recessive one would be 50% per parent.
So the chance - if I remember my stochastics properly - to get at least one recessive gene would be 50%, while the chance of getting both recessive or both dominant ones would be 25% each (50%+25%+25%=100% so I think that is at least correct XD ).

In case one parent would own two recessive 'faulty' genes and has developed a disorder while the other has one 'faulty' and one dominant, healthy one, the chance of offspring inheriting only one 'faulty' gene would be 50% (because it would always get one from the parent with two, but there is a 50% chance to get the healthy one from the other parent). Meaning there is a 50% chance of getting two 'faulty' genes as well.

So the math is a little bit different but with continuous incestuous inbreeding (that's redundant, isn't it?), there would be a subsequently higher chance in later generations that both parents hold one of those recessive genes to pass on, as compared to - uhm - 'fortifications' with partners further away from your own gene pool who could potentially bring in two healthy dominant genes.

But these comparatively higher chances that I mentioned would only be "important" if we are talking about something like a severe inherited genetic disorder like Down Syndrome.
For smaller, almost imperceivable mutations like... uuhhh... for example "the last segment of your pinky finger is a little shorter than it should be", the consequences wouldn't be as severe and would/could slowly build up over multiple generations when more and more of those smaller issues start adding up. So in that regard, the thing you mentioned about specific issues and increasing chances over multiple generations is correct-ish under certain circumstances.

And as always, take everything I say with a grain of salt. I'm working in the medical field, but I'm not a geneticist at all. Just learned some of that stuff many years ago and looked other things up the last couple of days XD
Also, I really hope this doesn't come across as condescending or anything like that. It's definitely not meant that way. It's just a very intriguing topic and I only want to try and find information about it and share it in case someone is interested, and I'm also often overly perfectionistic. I'm sorry if this came across negatively ^^"

nobunagafirst said:
I... hmmm, after thinking about it for a while and looking some things up, I'd say no, not necessarily.
(first of all, not a native English speaker here, so I apologize for incorrect grammar and stupid, hard-to-understand sentences in advance XD)

The thing is, we - well, at least we humans specifically - have 46 chromosomes (had to look that one up; it has been far too long since I learned that to remember it by now XD).
44 of those are basically pairs of copies of each other, the other two are the sex chromosomes that define if we are born male or female (physically speaking, at least). That's important because each chromosome contains thousands of genes.
So we basically have two copies of every genetic information in our bodies. And we have those two copies because that is what we get from our parents: 23 chromosomes from the father, 23 from the mother.

Now all the information we get from our parents in the form of those genes in the end sum up to 'us'.
Though it depends if those genes have a dominant-recessive relationship or an intermediate one.

Dominant-recessive means that one gene (dominant) overrules the other (recessive).
For example: your dad has green eyes and your mom has blue ones. Your mom's blue eyes are bound to a recessive gene while your dad's green ones are bound to a dominant one, meaning that in the end, you get your dad's green eyes.

Intermediate means that the information of both genes get mixed:
For example: your dad has a darker skin tone and your mom has a lighter one. If the genes holding those pieces of information are intermediate, you will not end up with the same skin tone as either your mom or dad, but somewhere in between.

From what I found, damaged or mutated genes - the kind we were talking about in regard to inherited genetic diseases - are usually recessive, meaning that as long as you also inherit a healthy, dominant one you are fine.
So in case one of both parents has one of those 'faulty' recessive genes and one healthy, dominant one (remember, all those information comes in pairs), and the other one has two healthy, dominant ones, the chance of offspring inheriting the recessive one from the one parent is 50%, while it would always get a healthy one from the other parent. So the chance of developing a disease would be 0% since it would always get a healthy, dominant one from the other parent.
There would also be a 50% chance of getting the healthy one from the parent with one 'faulty' gene to end up with two healthy ones in total.

In case both parents have one of the 'faulty' recessive genes and one healthy, dominant one each, the chance of inheriting a recessive one would be 50% per parent.
So the chance - if I remember my stochastics properly - to get at least one recessive gene would be 50%, while the chance of getting both recessive or both dominant ones would be 25% each (50%+25%+25%=100% so I think that is at least correct XD ).

In case one parent would own two recessive 'faulty' genes and has developed a disorder while the other has one 'faulty' and one dominant, healthy one, the chance of offspring inheriting only one 'faulty' gene would be 50% (because it would always get one from the parent with two, but there is a 50% chance to get the healthy one from the other parent). Meaning there is a 50% chance of getting two 'faulty' genes as well.

So the math is a little bit different but with continuous incestuous inbreeding (that's redundant, isn't it?), there would be a subsequently higher chance in later generations that both parents hold one of those recessive genes to pass on, as compared to - uhm - 'fortifications' with partners further away from your own gene pool who could potentially bring in two healthy dominant genes.

But these comparatively higher chances that I mentioned would only be "important" if we are talking about something like a severe inherited genetic disorder like Down Syndrome.
For smaller, almost imperceivable mutations like... uuhhh... for example "the last segment of your pinky finger is a little shorter than it should be", the consequences wouldn't be as severe and would/could slowly build up over multiple generations when more and more of those smaller issues start adding up. So in that regard, the thing you mentioned about specific issues and increasing chances over multiple generations is correct-ish under certain circumstances.

And as always, take everything I say with a grain of salt. I'm working in the medical field, but I'm not a geneticist at all. Just learned some of that stuff many years ago and looked other things up the last couple of days XD
Also, I really hope this doesn't come across as condescending or anything like that. It's definitely not meant that way. It's just a very intriguing topic and I only want to try and find information about it and share it in case someone is interested, and I'm also often overly perfectionistic. I'm sorry if this came across negatively ^^"

All this talk about incest and mutant genes ... the twin's story is art ... ink on paper will not produce "mutant genes". Enjoy the story and appreciate the art.

ironhorse said:
All this talk about incest and mutant genes ... the twin's story is art ... ink on paper will not produce "mutant genes". Enjoy the story and appreciate the art.

I totally understand that and enjoy the story just fine the way it is. It needs no explanation, real-life analysis, or anything along the line. I get that and I absolutely love the comic, the characters, and the art as it is ♥♥♥
Still, an interesting topic and kinda fun to talk about it in the comments even if not related to what's actually going on in the story :-)
You are not interested in this topic? Ignore my comments instead of reading them, would be my advice ;-)
(still better than comments like: "Yay, first!" or bs like that XD )

neocat said:
Usually 1 generation isn't enough for significant genetic damage to become a real issue. Its after multiple generations of inbreeding abnormalities really start to show up.
Im not even sure its correct to call it damage or errors to begin with because its no different from non incestious reproduction. Baby gets an amalgam of dna based on parent a and parent b.
The issue i think stems from a lack of diversity in those genes. Resulting in genetic vulnerability’s of both parents being passed down to their kids.

Do remember that inbreeding is also done purposely in animal husbandry to "lock in" desirable features in new breeds.

Anyway, unless Keith and Beth were also siblings, this isn't very likely to be a significant issue, and the majority of the danger in the situation is from moral "authorities" giving them grief.
Especially since they're likely not planning for children anytime soon anyway. Keith should focus on teaching them safe sex and hoping they live themselves apart in the meantime.

And if they don't, make sure they know what the risks are and let them make their own decision. They could just decide not to have biological children, thus rendering any actual issues moot.

I'm just trying to jack to incest furry porn and I am faced with random arguments about genes

nobunagafirst said:
I totally understand that and enjoy the story just fine the way it is. It needs no explanation, real-life analysis, or anything along the line. I get that and I absolutely love the comic, the characters, and the art as it is ♥♥♥
Still, an interesting topic and kinda fun to talk about it in the comments even if not related to what's actually going on in the story :-)
You are not interested in this topic? Ignore my comments instead of reading them, would be my advice ;-)
(still better than comments like: "Yay, first!" or bs like that XD )

I appreciate the effort-post.