That's not how cuckoldry works

sexygriffon said:
That's not how cuckoldry works

I'm not sure what you mean. o_o;

If you mean the lack of consent, according to the site's rules, it still counts. There's even a tag specifically for consensual cucking to make that type of scene easier to find. There should really be a "non-consensual cucking" tag so people who don't like the non-con side have something to blacklist, but at least there's a distinction between the two.

If you mean them doing things behind his back for a month, then yeah, he wasn't a cuckold until now. By definition, the person being cucked has to be present and aware of what their unfaithful partner's doing while not being allowed to participate, willingly or otherwise.

killah_zillah said:
...

The wiki page you linked for cuckold does not describe what is happening here. This is absolutely Infidelity. As far as I know, by the site's definition, the two tags are mutually exclusive. It says "Not to be confused with infidelity".

Cuckoldry doesn't involve secrecy. It's essentially a form of bdsm/roleplay, but for mental 'pain' instead of physical. "The male knows the partner is unfaithful", "to watch", "the male knows he just can't offer what others can". The fact that Fox is just now discovering this means it's not cuckoldry. A lot of people have a false impression of cuckoldry and think it's this, but it's not.

Infidelity, on the other hand, is what the site uses to describe "Cheating" (Because we use the cheat tag for things such as cheating in video games). "having sex in a way that violates an exclusive relationship", and the tag is aliased to "adultery" and "ntr". Setting up a cuckoldry relationship means it's no longer an exclusive relationship.

tl;dr this is infidelity (cheating), not cucking.

sexygriffon said:
The wiki page you linked for cuckold does not describe what is happening here. This is absolutely Infidelity. As far as I know, by the site's definition, the two tags are mutually exclusive. It says "Not to be confused with infidelity".

Cuckoldry doesn't involve secrecy. It's essentially a form of bdsm/roleplay, but for mental 'pain' instead of physical. "The male knows the partner is unfaithful", "to watch", "the male knows he just can't offer what others can". The fact that Fox is just now discovering this means it's not cuckoldry. A lot of people have a false impression of cuckoldry and think it's this, but it's not.

Infidelity, on the other hand, is what the site uses to describe "Cheating" (Because we use the cheat tag for things such as cheating in video games). "having sex in a way that violates an exclusive relationship", and the tag is aliased to "adultery" and "ntr". Setting up a cuckoldry relationship means it's no longer an exclusive relationship.

tl;dr this is infidelity (cheating), not cucking.

You're fighting a losing battle here, mate. Some tags on this site have a more strict or loose usage (unfortunately). Ya just gotta deal with it.

CuckMcCloud Very attached to reality

sexygriffon said:
Cuckoldry doesn't involve secrecy.

I agree that infidelity is about secrecy and cucking is about humiliation, but like I said earlier, they clearly aren't keeping it a secret anymore..! If forcing him to watch doesn't count as them letting the cat out of the bag, what does? XD

It's essentially a form of bdsm/roleplay, but for mental 'pain' instead of physical. "The male knows the partner is unfaithful", "to watch", "the male knows he just can't offer what others can". The fact that Fox is just now discovering this means it's not cuckoldry. A lot of people have a false impression of cuckoldry and think it's this, but it's not.

Miyu specifically said she wants him to watch them from now on, they just told him what they've been doing behind his back, he's in the same room and he's 100% lucid and aware while seeing Krystal stroke Miyu's dick. I agree that they weren't cucking him until this exact second. Now that he's awake and knows about their infidelity while watching his girlfriend touch penis - willing or otherwise - the scene apparently includes every part of the cucking description. If this took place a minute before he woke up, then I'd agree that it doesn't meet the description I linked to. This is his first time being cucked by the two of them but it still counts as being cucked, even if he's in denial about it!

... Wait, are you saying that Fox being in denial means it doesn't count yet? He's still being humiliated and called sexually inferior, even if he hasn't accepted that Krystal's doing it willingly. You say that mental pain is an important element; he's definitely not happy about it!

The wiki page you linked for cuckold does not describe what is happening here. This is absolutely Infidelity. As far as I know, by the site's definition, the two tags are mutually exclusive. It says "Not to be confused with infidelity".

I honestly agree with you about them being mutually exclusive, that's why I have cuckold minus'd out in my infidelity RSS feed and why I think the infidelity tag should be removed - it's not a secret anymore, honey bun! It WAS infidelity until they told him and made him watch, but now that he knows about it and he's watching them do it, it's not a secret anymore! Secrecy is the main ingredient of infidelity and it irks me something awful to see the tag here. >< People get them confused, thinking all netorare content counts as cuckolding or infidelity. I believe those phrases describe specific types of netorare - like how all tortoises are turtles but not all turtles are tortoises. But like Carnivore said, the definitions are blurred on e621 for the sake of making things easier to find or avoid. Despite agreeing with you about them being different, I think this is close enough to cucking and the exact opposite of infidelity! I mean, what else do you call a scene where someone watches their partner play with someone else's genitals while bragging about how much better they are? A lot of people don't want to see this sort of thing and broadening the description gives them something to blacklist. I don't like it when it's involuntary, but what can you do besides make a non-con cucking tag? -.-;

killah_zillah said:
...

You're working under the assumption that the infidelity tag can only apply when the partner doesn't know it's happening, but that's not what the tag's wiki page describes, nor is it how the word is defined. Again, as far as I'm aware of how these tags work on this site, infidelity is "cheating" (whether the original partner is aware of it or not), while "cuckold" is for the fetish, meaning the original partner is in on it willingly.

I asked for a mod to make a ruling, so we'll know soon enough.

sexygriffon said:
You're working under the assumption that the infidelity tag can only apply when the partner doesn't know it's happening, but that's not what the tag's wiki page describes, nor is it how the word is defined. Again, as far as I'm aware of how these tags work on this site, infidelity is "cheating" (whether the original partner is aware of it or not), while "cuckold" is for the fetish, meaning the original partner is in on it willingly.

That part of my message was me explaining why I haven't tried arguing that the infidelity tag should be removed, even though I think it doesn't belong. I was admitting to my own personal bias, saying that even though it irritates me, I know the definition is broadened on this site so my bias is irrelevant. It was my attempt at relating to how you might be feeling about this. There were no assumptions, I was being completely honest about why I'm not an authority on why a tag might or might not belong on e621. All I can do is point at the wiki and say what parts do and don't fit the definition. It's not a secret anymore and he's watching them do it, so it counts by the site's loose definition. I don't like it, I agree with you, but that's how it works here.

I fully admit that I'm biased to a fault about this. I can't speak for you, but I've done cucking stuff IRL specifically because my partner made it crystal clear that it's not the same thing as infidelity and that he sincerely wanted me to do it for him; that's why I can't stand the idea of these two things being the same and why I don't want to seem like I'm disagreeing with you. For all I know, the infidelity tag belongs because they told him about their previous infidelity, but being willing isn't found anywhere on the cuckolding tag's description. Since the pic includes everything else in the tag's description, the scene is close enough, so according to e6's rules it counts.

Again, I agree that being willing is what separates actual cucking from mere sadism, but I accept that the description is broadened for a good reason here.

If you want to keep talking about it, maybe we should do so in DMs? I'd rather not flood the comments section with this. -u-;

I asked for a mod to make a ruling, so we'll know soon enough.

Ok, cool! I didn't even know that were an option. I've tried talking to multiple mods for clarification before (on something else) and never got a reply so I hope they respond!

sexygriffon said:
The wiki page you linked for cuckold does not describe what is happening here. This is absolutely Infidelity. As far as I know, by the site's definition, the two tags are mutually exclusive. It says "Not to be confused with infidelity".

Cuckoldry doesn't involve secrecy. It's essentially a form of bdsm/roleplay, but for mental 'pain' instead of physical. "The male knows the partner is unfaithful", "to watch", "the male knows he just can't offer what others can". The fact that Fox is just now discovering this means it's not cuckoldry. A lot of people have a false impression of cuckoldry and think it's this, but it's not.

Infidelity, on the other hand, is what the site uses to describe "Cheating" (Because we use the cheat tag for things such as cheating in video games). "having sex in a way that violates an exclusive relationship", and the tag is aliased to "adultery" and "ntr". Setting up a cuckoldry relationship means it's no longer an exclusive relationship.

tl;dr this is infidelity (cheating), not cucking.

wait they aren't mutually exclusive

Cheating and cucking can happen simultaneously, the "Not to be confused with" note is just to ensure the user understands there's a difference between the tags. Both tags can be used here.

strikerman said:
wait they aren't mutually exclusive

Cheating and cucking can happen simultaneously, the "Not to be confused with" note is just to ensure the user understands there's a difference between the tags. Both tags can be used here.

yeah, this is definitely both.

infidelity is any case where a character is seen cheating on their romantic partner.

cuckold (or cuckquean) is for any post in which a character is watching their romantic partner fuck a third party, whether or not the "cuck" has consented to the situation.

dba_afish said:
yeah, this is definitely both.

infidelity is any case where a character is seen cheating on their romantic partner.

cuckold (or cuckquean) is for any post in which a character is watching their romantic partner fuck a third party, whether or not the "cuck" has consented to the situation.

strikerman said:
wait they aren't mutually exclusive

Cheating and cucking can happen simultaneously, the "Not to be confused with" note is just to ensure the user understands there's a difference between the tags. Both tags can be used here.

Apparently not, the tag's locked out now! Why doesn't it count anymore?? This is so damn confusing. ><

I'm gonna ask Slyroon what's missing from these pictures. I'll edit this reply if I get an answer back. Maybe the definition is getting updated soon to include something missing from it? Either way, hopefully this debate gets put to bed.

Man, what an arguement... this is clearly cuckold, why it is a locked tag makes no sense to me either? Cuckold is all about the partner knowing they are being cheated on.

killah_zillah said:
I'm not sure what you mean. o_o;

If you mean the lack of consent, according to the site's rules, it still counts. There's even a tag specifically for consensual cucking to make that type of scene easier to find. There should really be a "non-consensual cucking" tag so people who don't like the non-con side have something to blacklist, but at least there's a distinction between the two.

Well, consensual cuckold got aliased

I've asked slyroon in the discord a couple of days ago and the answer was:

Slyroon said:

The reason I locked that was primarily because of the tagging war. And why I locked it as I did, is because, to my understanding, cuckolding is defined as: A fetish that involves where one partner finds the idea of their significant other "cheating" arousing, and is likely to simply watch or masturbate. Often, there is also the aspect of humiliation where either the partner or the one they have sex with berates or humiliates the "cuck," much to the arousal of the participant.
The key here is consent. If your partner has sex without your agreement, it constitutes as cheating/infidelity.

I don't think it makes sense for tagging to define a single tag through multiple vectors like this, locking an act/situation tag to only applying when some other case is (not) satisfied is very odd.

we don't usually _(usually) treat tags like this.

snpthecat said:

Replies

I've asked slyroon in the discord a couple of days ago and the answer was:

Glad you were able to get an answer (I couldn't)! But that still leaves pictures like this - where every single other aspect of the tag are covered except for consent - in a limbo. What do you call a scene like this? It's a very specific type of scene, it's very very very close to the site's new definition still, and a lot of people don't want to see this sort of thing/would appreciate it being easier to find.

If the inverse used to be true, them maybe there can be an "unwilling_cuckold" tag so people who like seeing all netorare content have something to search and people who only want to see the traditional stuff don't ever have to see this sort of thing?

I really don't mind the definition changing or losing the argument (all I have to say about that is that I think the wiki should be updated to include the new consent requirement), but there's no longer a tag for this specific kind of abusive treatment that someone can blacklist. Considering how often people fight over characters being treated like this, I'm definitely not the only one who dislikes seeing heartbroken characters! Tags exist to benefit the user and there's a LOT of pictures like this one, so why not have a tag that both benefits people with a heartbreak kink and people who want to avoid it? x-x

dba_afish said:
I don't think it makes sense for tagging to define a single tag through multiple vectors like this, locking an act/situation tag to only applying when some other case is (not) satisfied is very odd.

we don't usually _(usually) treat tags like this.

I agree! The tags used to be broadly defined on purpose, or tags had subtags that were relevant enough to be associated with the main one, like "gynomorph -> intersex". There's no room for subtags now? People so often fight in the comments of pics like these that there really should be something to blacklist.

Honestly, I'm starting to feel nervous talking about this anymore, but I've tried getting answers on my own in DMs and that didn't work and I don't want to repeatedly hassle the admins over it. x-x

I really just hate this being extremely rude towards fox and plus I hate it just gonna blacklist this artist..