hey, here are some tags that might be bad to use:

hate_art, arty_crop, and edgy look like subjective tagging

artistic_nudity seems redundant per casual_nudity

artist_name and artist_signature can be merged into signature or watermark unless benefit is earned from the designation of specifically an artist putting their name into the piece

amateur_artist and artistic looks opinionated

giftart, fanfic_art, and vga_fanart looks like they violate tag-what-you-see

what_has_art_done looks like what_has_science_done w/ 7 posts

can art_pack be merged to cover_art? most of this tag belongs in sets and the rest look like advertisements

what's the deal with generic_cartoon_animorph?

trying to clean up tag_group:art right now and looking for new additions while cleaning out the bad. could add in more tags but they're not related to the group. will add thread to group if it's useful.

opinions requested.

EDIT: The bulk update request #5046 (forum #) has been rejected by @Cloudpie.

Of those arty_crop seems to be the least subjective- it seems to be cropping of an image that isn't either a standard portrait crop or typical fetish-specific crop (like a close-up of only genitals or only a foot). It could be renamed and redefined to sound less derisive and get rid of the implication of 'intending to appear more artistic than it is' though, maybe 'unusual' crop/focus/portrait?

Plus one to everything. Good work.

fewrahuxo said:
giftart, fanfic_art, and vga_fanart looks like they violate tag-what-you-see

Also worthless for searches. Giftart especially so.

Note that some tags listed in tag_group:art may not be valid. Users have been adding everything they could find on that list, regardless of validity or usefulness. Dark_colors is one such tag. That should be merged into dark_theme instead.

First off, great stuff here...'preciate ya.

fewrahuxo said:
artistic_nudity seems redundant per casual_nudity

I feel like casual_nudity needs other characters to be present in an image in order to work...how do we know that the nudity is casual unless other characters are present who are treating it casually? I don't think there's a crossover...artistic_nudity should just be aliased to invalid_tag because it gets into the area of "what is art?" and that's too subjective.

fewrahuxo said:
artist_name and artist_signature can be merged into signature or watermark

To me the difference between artist_name and signature is that a signature doesn't really have to be legible whereas artist_name does. However I admit that's fairly trivial and most people probably don't care about it. I would be for merging artist_name and artist_signature into simply signature.

fewrahuxo said:
can art_pack be merged to cover_art? most of this tag belongs in sets and the rest look like advertisements

Sounds good...except I noticed that sometimes people are misusing the art_pack tag to mean "this image is part of an art pack"...those images would have to be cleaned out before putting this alias into effect as they don't qualify as cover_art.

All the rest I haven't mentioned I either agree with you or I don't have an opinion on...

fewrahuxo said:
artistic_nudity seems redundant per casual_nudity

I think artistic_nudity is another term for tasteful_nudity. There have been talks before about changing both casual_nudity and tasteful_nudity to something like nonsexual_nudity.

I'm not a fan of merging the nudity tags. I'd rather distinguish them properly. Probably merge tasteful_nudity over to artistic_nudity and use it for poses, and have casual_nudity for just going about your business in the buff.

Snowy said:
I'm not a fan of merging the nudity tags. I'd rather distinguish them properly. Probably merge tasteful_nudity over to artistic_nudity and use it for poses, and have casual_nudity for just going about your business in the buff.

I prefer a clearer distinction too, but there are many images where it's hard to tell what it should be. Nude pinups get mixed up in this as well. An umbrella tag for nonsexual nudity (or sexual nudity, which might be easier to define and manage) couldn't hurt, with casual and tasteful being more specific terms.

I like the idea of an umbrella tag, just not merging everything into one umbrella tag.

BlueDingo said:
I think artistic_nudity is another term for tasteful_nudity. There have been talks before about changing both casual_nudity and tasteful_nudity to something like nonsexual_nudity.

In addition, artistic_nude is already aliased to tasteful_nudity, so that may affect which tag artistic_nudity could be aliased to.

I'm not sure if other forum posts have been made regarding changing the tasteful_nudity and casual_nudity tags, but I remember some discussions like what you're describing on forum #209348

Huh, Did not even know "hate_art" was a thing till now.
Hmm =T Looks like there are still radically polarizing views on mlp.
It's just a show about talking cartoon ponies.
Why is this
post #207799
a thing.

Freedom of expression and I am no way saying you can't draw this. I just saying I don't get why peeps would take the show 'That' seriously to make something so...gory X_x;)
But I should hush up, Having an opinion on the net seems dangerous T w T)

fewrahuxo said:
hey, here are some tags that might be bad to use:

hate_art, arty_crop, and edgy look like subjective tagging

artistic_nudity seems redundant per casual_nudity

artist_name and artist_signature can be merged into signature or watermark unless benefit is earned from the designation of specifically an artist putting their name into the piece

amateur_artist and artistic looks opinionated

giftart, fanfic_art, and vga_fanart looks like they violate tag-what-you-see

what_has_art_done looks like what_has_science_done w/ 7 posts

can art_pack be merged to cover_art? most of this tag belongs in sets and the rest look like advertisements

what's the deal with generic_cartoon_animorph?

trying to clean up tag_group:art right now and looking for new additions while cleaning out the bad. could add in more tags but they're not related to the group. will add thread to group if it's useful.

opinions requested.

Dood, I've made the same points before a few times before and the answers I've gotten back is that it manly falls under technicality. Heck about 1 outta 3 tags you'll find on the site will fall under this lolz ◠‿◠)

Like for "artistic_nudity" and "casual_nudity"

"artistic_nudity"
post #1016423
falls under something like this
Where the art peep makes them being naked the vocal point of the whole piece.

Were "casual_nudity"
post #354994
falls under the art peep makes them being naked less of a vocal point as the naked peep is usually see doing other thing that would be normal to do.

It's pretty much the same thing but not really ya know? ╹‿╹)

One difference I've noticed is casual nudity hardly ever contains posing while tasteful/artistic usually does so if the nude character is posing, it's not exactly casual... unless it's flexing or a superhero pose or something.

Notkastar said:
Were "casual_nudity"
post #354994
falls under the art peep makes them being naked less of a vocal point as the naked peep is usually see doing other thing that would be normal to do.

Actually, the nudity can be the focal point of a casual nudity image.

post #843310

what i've done so far:

• removed all posts from edgy (except 3 because of tag limit), fanfic_art, vga_fanart, amateur_artist, artistic, and hate_art.

not by me:

• generic cartoon animorph had its posts removed

i would like more opinions on the artistic_nudity, casual_nudity, and tasteful_nudity theoretical merge

fewrahuxo said:
i would like more opinions on the artistic_nudity, casual_nudity, and tasteful_nudity theoretical merge

Personally, I think casual_nudity should be implicated to tasteful_nudity, but not aliased. tasteful_nudity should be implicated, but not aliased to, artistic_nudity.

This is because tasteful_nudity isn't always just someone who happens to be nude, and artistic_nudity can be sexual in nature even if it isn't necessarily pornographic, but the flipped version of the implication is basically saying that tasteful_nudity is just artistic_nudity that isn't sexual.

Keep casual_nudity for posts where someone is acting casual while nude, and invalidate tasteful_nudity. Because the latter way too subjective to keep. Users have vastly different views on what counts as pornographic.

Here's some examples of posts that have been tagged as tasteful_nudity:
post #216088 post #139022 post #828077
post #920329 post #1040341 post #64572

And that's discounting the posts that have been cleaned out.
Seems to me that half of the users want it tagged for -rating:explicit female pinup, while the other half is tagging it by their personal standards of 'tasteful'.

Invalidation might be going a bit far. Alias to nude instead?

BlueDingo said:
Invalidation might be going a bit far. Alias to nude instead?

i support the alias; tasteful_nudity already implies nude so an alias makes sense

currently i'm going through all posts with tasteful_nudity, removing the tasteful_nudity tag from them, and seeing which ones can be put back into casual_nudity.

edit: per below reply, i no longer support the alias.

The implication was a mistake. Tasteful_nudity tends to get tagged for posts where the characters aren't fully nude, and posts like these have the nude tag because of that:
post #1071289 post #1097357 post #1011303
post #991872 post #969085 post #969082
post #921281 post #920323 post #920203

If it's aliased, those'll be far harder to find and fix.

Genjar said:
The implication was a mistake. Tasteful_nudity tends to get tagged for posts where the characters aren't fully nude, and posts like these have the nude tag because of that:
post #1071289 post #1097357

If it's aliased, those'll be even harder to spot and fix.

I cleared up a whole bunch of those some time ago. There used to be heaps of topless, bottomless and even upskirt shots like this one with the tag:

post #1024144

Search tasteful_nudity clothed for more examples.

BlueDingo said:
I cleared up a whole bunch of those some time ago.

Yep, and so have others. Any implication that requires that much cleanup is a bad one.

is it now safe to update the tasteful_nudity wiki page to disavow its use?

Also what about artistic_nudity? Should it be kept -- and if so should the alias for artistic_nude be switched to artistic_nudity --, and how could the wiki article be drafted to avoid the subjective tagging that's gone on with tasteful_nudity?

It sounds like tasteful_nudity as a tag is largely unrecoverable at this point, so it may be a good idea to update the wiki. If the tag's too subjective to use and if aliasing it to another tag will just cause more problems then maybe it should be invalidated.

I think artistic_nudity can be salvaged. The narrow and entirely objective version would be nude models where the artist(s) (or at least the art) is depicted:
post #1043820 post #1016423 and even post #694786 would be examples.

The broader and more subjective version would include characters that appear to be modeling for nude art. That would include most of draw_me_like_one_of_your_french_girls, for example. Since suggestive poses and signs of arousal are generally frowned upon, such images should probably not get the tag unless there is a direct indication (such as dialogue) in the image (e.g. post #828080). If we go with nonsexual_nudity as an umbrella tag then images such as post #828080 would need to be excluded.

Snowy said:
I think artistic_nudity can be salvaged. The narrow and entirely objective version would be nude models where the artist(s) (or at least the art) is depicted:
post #1043820 post #1016423 and even post #694786 would be examples.

The broader and more subjective version would include characters that appear to be modeling for nude art. That would include most of draw_me_like_one_of_your_french_girls, for example. Since suggestive poses and signs of arousal are generally frowned upon, such images should probably not get the tag unless there is a direct indication (such as dialogue) in the image (e.g. post #828080). If we go with nonsexual_nudity as an umbrella tag then images such as post #828080 would need to be excluded.

i agree with the draw_me* tag being limited to the meme reference.

artistic_nudity appears okay if it's useful for searching, but then why not search "nude drawing" or "nude artist"?

fewrahuxo said:
i agree with the draw_me* tag being limited to the meme reference.

artistic_nudity appears okay if it's useful for searching, but then why not search "nude drawing" or "nude artist"?

Since not all art is drawn, searching for "nude drawing" would exclude some posts:

post #1139221 post #820238 post #524578 post #192494

On the other hand simply searching "nude artist" or "nude model" could work too. But I guess this would exclude stuff with only the model (for "nude artist"), only the work of art (both "nude artist" and "nude model), or where the artist is also the model (possibly?):

post #694786 post #70435 post #756641 post #9671 post #160963

From the way it looks, I guess artistic_nudity can work as a tag and be useful when searching. But if it's gonna be used, should a broader or narrower definition be used for the tag? Additionally, should posts that are more sexually suggestive be included too?

post #828080 post #1026436 post #866828 post #364056

D.D.M. said:

[...]

on the whole, not having an artistic_nudity would create extremely niche series of tag searches. one wonder whether it would be of any benefit to create an artistic_nudity tag, what rules would apply to its application to posts, and if it will result in the same broad subjectivity as tasteful_nudity

Would nude_modeling work for those? ^{_{(It'd definitely need an alias with nude_modelling, because both spellings are valid.)[/sup]}}

If they were all tagged right, ~nude ~mostly_nude pose artist and ~nude ~mostly_nude pose creating_artshould find the majority of them.

i've finished removing all posts from tasteful_nudity, edgy, hate_art, and what_has_art_done.

i have some doubts about the objective quality of adding in an artistic_nudity tag in the face of other searches being used to find the same things. perhaps the nude_modelling tag would provide an objective alternative.

two things: is it time to invalidate some of the above tags? and is it possible to salvage arty_crop?

Genjar said:
Would nude_modeling work for those? ^{_{(It'd definitely need an alias with nude_modelling, because both spellings are valid.)[/sup]}}

That sounds a lot better as a tag than artistic_nudity. And it'd be a lot simpler in terms of the wiki description: when a character is modeling nude.

i have gotten rid of all posts under the artistic_nudity tag, and have transferred several over to nude_modelling (and not nude_modeling).

all said the only things left in this thread are artist_name, artist_signature, and arty_crop. the first two appear uncontroversial merges and the last one seems subjective.

Artist_signature should just be aliased to signature. Since it'll probably get used again even if cleaned.

Edit: ...submitted the alias.

Genjar said:
Artist_signature should just be aliased to signature. Since it'll probably get used again even if cleaned.

Edit: ...submitted the alias.

Thread for that (Artist_signature) alias at https://e621.net/forum/show/230896

Could edgy just be aliased to invalid_tag? Someone is using it again.

peacethroughpower said:
Could edgy just be aliased to invalid_tag? Someone is using it again.

Please create an actual request instead of necroing a 6 year old inactive topic

https://e621.net/tag_alias_request/new

The bulk update request #5046 (forum #) has been rejected by @Cloudpie.