Strikerman said:
The guy accusing everyone of being Nazis and SJWs was being serious?

Apparently so. We also apparently banned cub porn, changed the dickgirl and cuntboy tags, and did other things while I didn't look.

NotMeNotYou said:
Apparently so. We also apparently banned cub porn, changed the dickgirl and cuntboy tags, and did other things while I didn't look.

You should look away more often. Apparently when you do, we're far more productive.

Shit geeze wow I pushed for over 7 months for rhat to change and all it took was the complete collapse of society, dogs and cats living together in peace and general mass hysteria. All because paid content is DNP? Geeze I wish Id thought of suggesting that earlier.

People are still going to pirate. That wont change jack.

Its just how they do it.

My question is how this effects doujinshi which are extremely hard to get a hold of when their print cycle stops and most JP artists do not sell via digital.
(See Ameyamai or Mayoineko's old stuff)

Demesejha said:
My question is how this effects doujinshi which are extremely hard to get a hold of when their print cycle stops and most JP artists do not sell via digital.
(See Ameyamai or Mayoineko's old stuff)

I never got the impression that e621 hosts many doujins compared to other sites (only comparing the relevant furry and monster ones). Am I wrong?

PlüschTiger said:

Are you sure? For me it looks more like an opinion and anger. Even if you do not want to read it, it is unfortunately partly correct, even if I have only a part of it understood. The part of which is also nonsense, I do not dispute. You should not just look at what he writes but also pay attention to what he says.

Unfortunately, Admin is really a part of the problem and I myself have felt at 2. You make something wrong and get a warning, you want to enlighten it = No interest. The worst is yet to link the rules to your offense. But the rule against which you have disowned does not exist. This is so, do not interest the Admin, the Neutral Record with the warning remains. I'm sorry but if admins act as if arbitrariness would be for them nothing bad, then e621 must not be surprised about trolls and störer. With us in Germany there is a suitable saying for it: "It sounds from the forest as you call in", or something like that. If one is offended or attacked by an admin, he does not have to wonder if the user is fighting, and must suffer the other user under it. Trolls are often self-made.

The tags are another topic where he is right. The latest change, Renamon etc. is the best example. You make changes due to the fact that the user disrupts it when they find fantasy characters in the search, in usern which figures in a search do not want to have only appear as a figure or picture is exactly this reason incidentally. Why is it important at one thing and the other side thing?

Point 6 is at least in two cases, I also noticed. Admittedly, not 100% in the context. Cuntboy thread, Cub porn ban on other pages thread. Instead of moderating, you just closed it.

I like to make my contribution to the community. Since I can only be punished for it and I am still ashamed because of my language, this has changed. I have for some understanding, but also mine and the tolerance of other users has bordered and there is no one I can complain here on e621 officially.

German - Deutsch

Bist du dir da sicher? Für mich sieht das eher nach einer Meinung aus und verärgerung. Auch wenn du es vielleicht nicht lesen möchtest, es ist leider zum teil Richtig, auch wenn ich nur ein teil davon verstanden habe. Das ein Teil dessen auch unsinn ist streite ich nicht ab. Du solltest nicht nur darauf sehen was er schreibt sondern auch darauf achten was er sagt.

Leider sind Admin wirklich ein Teil des problemes und ich selbst habe das bei 2 zu spüren bekommen. Du machst was falsch und bekommst eine verwarnung, willst du es aufklären = Kein Interesse. Das schlimmste noch man verlinkt dir die Regeln zu deinem Vergehen. Doch die Regel gegen die du verstoßen hast gibt es nicht. Das dies so ist, interessiert jenem Admin nicht, der Neutrale Record mit der Verwarnung bleibt. Tut mir leid aber wenn Admins agieren als wäre willkür für sie nichts schlimmes, dann muss e621 sich über Trolle und störer nicht wundern. Bei uns in Deutschland gibt es ein passendes Sprichwort dafür: "Es schallt aus dem Wald wie du hinein rufst.", oder so ähnlich. Wenn man von einem Admin beleidigt oder angegriffen wird, muss er sich nicht wundern wenn der User sich wehrt, und leiden müssen die anderen user darunter. Trolle sind nicht selten selbst gemacht.

Die Tags sind ein Weiteres Thema wo er recht hat. Die neuste Änderung, Renamon etc. betreffend ist das beste Beispiel. Man macht Änderungen aufgrund der Tatsache das Usern es stören tut wenn sie Fantasie Figuren bei der Suche finden, bei usern welche Figuren bei einer Suche nicht haben wollen welche nur als Figur oder Bild erscheinen ist genau dieser Grund nebensächlich. Wieso ist es bei einem bedeutend und bei dem anderen Nebensache?

Punkt 6 ist zumindest in 2 Fällen, auch mir aufgefallen. Zugegeben, nicht 100% in dem Zusammenhang. Cuntboy thread, Cub porn ban auf anderen Seiten thread. Statt zu moderieren habt ihr sie einfach geschlossen.

Ich habe mal gern meinen Beitrag, zur Community, geleistet. Da ich mich dafür nur bestrafen lassen kann und ich mich wegen meiner Sprache noch schämen muss, hat sich das geändert. Ich habe für einiges Verständnis, aber auch meine und die Toleranz anderer User hat grenzen und es gibt keinen bei dem ich mich hier auf e621 offiziell beschweren kann.

No, I did read it but the dude lost any sort of credibility after the third sentence. If you want to be taken seriously and get people to listen, post a mature response. Calling admins "SJW Nazis" and accusing me of being an advocate for black supremacy will get you nowhere.

Lance_Armstrong said:
I never got the impression that e621 hosts many doujins compared to other sites (only comparing the relevant furry and monster ones). Am I wrong?

Perhaps, but there's a few on here which were not elsewhere or places I'd rather not visit.

It's too bad they never get sold online in digital after print has been out of stock, or outside of events. Even if you go to those events you aren't guaranteed to get one from the more popular artists as they sell out.

TheHuskyK9 said:
The best clickable poof to ever poof

Do poofs go click
when you ... click them?

2 years is old as hell im pretty sure that after 2 years nobody is buying anymore anyway

N0B0 said:
2 years is old as hell im pretty sure that after 2 years nobody is buying anymore anyway

What about those who didn't know the product existed until after that first two year period? Two years isn't very long considering there's things that are over twenty years old and still selling. It's not like artwork has a use by date or anything.

N0B0 said:
2 years is old as hell im pretty sure that after 2 years nobody is buying anymore anyway

they aren't buying because we gave it away for free, removing the possibility. now that was fixed

i have a few things to say about this change, and honestly i'm more against it then for it personally, EVEN THOUGH, legally this is the 'right' thing to do, but i don't think this was the right way to go about doing it.

on one hand i think purging all existing content without warning was about the worst way to go about this, i genuinely think without warning this sort of mass removal is something you need to let your community know about this, for the community to archive or comment, and for the artists to comment about it as well

and to add onto that WITHOUT WARNING!!!!???, why, when before, when has any drastic rule change without warning been accepted????

and the whole "stop piracy" thing, BULLSHIT and ignorance, i can only speak on my own behalf here, but seeing a page or two of paid content here has got me to go out and buy something, by removing ALL PAID CONTENT REGARDLESS OF TIME, you're cutting people off from seeing content that they'd pay for. now people like myself may be missing out on 'premium' content because we'll never see it in any form

and FOREVER, SERIOUSLY?, why not just 5 year?, like pretty much all 'art' from books to video games, sales will dropoff DRASTICALLY over time, and after a year or two with some exceptions sales will DROP FASTER THEN A BLOCK OF LEAD WITH ROCKS TAPED TO IT FALLING INTO JUPITER having paid content here only helps the artists so long as it's not 'new' when sales are affected (see previous paragraph)

BUT, legally this is the right way to go, this is an archival site, put it bluntly, but if it takes jettisoning a somewhat significant part of content (more then 10%,) to ensure that the site isn't taken down permanently, yeah, this is the right thing to do, if you have to sever a finger or two to save the whole arm and body, so be it

profpotato said:
on one hand i think purging all existing content without warning was about the worst way to go about this, i genuinely think without warning this sort of mass removal is something you need to let your community know about this, for the community to archive or comment, and for the artists to comment about it as well

and to add onto that WITHOUT WARNING!!!!???, why, when before, when has any drastic rule change without warning been accepted????

They deleted it without warning to prevent people from mass-downloading it before deletion.

SerpyLover~8841 said:
#E621ISOVERPARTY

1-YOU have changed the "cuntboy dickgirl" tags anti this retarded buzz words.
2-YOU have deleted art posts because of YOUR Bullshit TWYS rules that just keep posts YOU like.
3-YOU Have Also deleted art because of YOUR bullshit "quality standards" rule.
4-YOU have deleted art because it was """""politically incorract"""""" but kept other PRO-SJW art like that dumb pokesona anti-trump trigger fest.
5-YOU have banned or given neg records to users who were simple stating FACTS (like Treos) and gave positave recs and elevated states to PRO-SJWs for YOUR pro-sjw agenda.
6-YOU have locked threads for stating FACTS (like the "what makes you angry" thread) but kept drama filled SJW fest threads.
7-YOUR rules for this site encourages censorship and anti-male, anti-white, anti-christian, anti-twogender, anti alt right sentiment, and encourages VIOLENCE against said groups. It makes this site an orwellian safespace.
8-The admins have abuse their power to do everthing i just listed to gain tyrant poweres to cause drama and to DESTROY the furry community.
9-"""Husky""" has been pushing a black supremacy agenda and is leading the art posts and comments drama i've listed above.
10-"""Ratte""" has been pushing a Female supremacy agenda and is leading the thread and user records and bans drama i've also listed. She even admitted to not being a furry and says she hates the community! Absolutely disgusting she's even an admin here.
11-"""NotMeNotYou""" along with the other """admins""" have been pushing an SJW agenda and leading the rules and financial drama iv'e listed as well. He actually thinks he's some kind of "superior god" and has thin skin.

1.) just, what?, when have they changed it, you can look up "dickgirl" and get images including a girl with male genitals but no female genitals, same with cuntboy.

2.) prove it, if your gonna claim stuff that's an instance of "corruption" you need to prove it and cite your examples.

3.) again you have to prove it, and cite examples for these accusations

4.) see my response to 2 and 3

5. - 8.) see 2-4 for the response there

9.) WHAT!!??? husky is just a synonym for 'chubby', not for black supremacy, that's like saying "fat" is a tag that's pushing for white gluttony propaganda, it makes no sense

10.) THAT'S A WHOLE OTHER ISSUE, you can be a complete asshole but be hired because you still have the skill for that position, the important thing is that the person keep personal and professional thing separate.

11.) citation please, and if that's a serious, serious issue, you need to get users together in a calm and civil way, shit slinging things like "you suck", "you're SJW trash" isn't gonna get anything done

as for the "#e621isover" WOW, i thought this arrogance and panic was only on the youtube sphere, if i had a dollar for every "X is over" decry, i'd be richer then bill gates two fold, now, will this change affect e621, yes undoubtedly, but to say it's over is bullshit.

BlueDingo said:
They deleted it without warning to prevent people from mass-downloading it before deletion.

i still think that's the wrong way to go about it, because if it was up here once people will mass download for any number of reasons, including archival, giving a heads up by at least 3 days would let people who are DLing it for archival reasons get into high gear and archive these things. but yes people will abusive it, anyone can abuse anything

profpotato said:
(Feeding the troll)

It's a troll rant. Ignore it.

BlueDingo said:
It's a troll rant. Ignore it.

profpotato said:
(Feeding the troll)

when did i say that?

profpotato said:
profpotato said:
(Feeding the troll)

when did i say that?

You didn't. I wrote what you were doing instead of quoting the entire post for the sake of brevity.

BlueDingo said:
You didn't. I wrote what you were doing instead of quoting the entire post for the sake of brevity.

uuhhh, ok then, though this day and age, it seems nigh impossible to tell if they were trolling because there are people i've interacted with who have that mindset, and are like that, the lines blur after a while

profpotato said:
uuhhh, ok then, though this day and age, it seems nigh impossible to tell if they were trolling because there are people i've interacted with who have that mindset, and are like that, the lines blur after a while

Lance_Armstrong said:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poe%27s_law

profpotato said:
uuhhh, ok then, though this day and age, it seems nigh impossible to tell if they were trolling because there are people i've interacted with who have that mindset, and are like that, the lines blur after a while

Yeah, but it's a lot more obvious when they go off like a volcano.

BlueDingo said:
Yeah, but it's a lot more obvious when they go off like a volcano.

again, something that's becoming less and less easy to tell, i can only speak for myself here when i say that i have met people who have gone on rants like that over small issues. people going berserk like that is a lot more commenplace now that the whole "SJW and special snowflake" thing has gotten so ludicrously out of hand.

but enough on that

Sharp_Coyote said:
Do poofs go click
when you ... click them?

Certain ones do. Some just go pomf

Strikerman said:
The guy accusing everyone of being Nazis and SJWs was being serious?

Welcome to the world of a German. As a German you are born as a Nazi, no matter whether you are one or not. See Greece or Turkey, as soon as Germany decides something or does what does not like someone then we are Nazis. Apart from this, the question arises to me why just foreign comments are getting down votes. Racism?

TheHuskyK9 said:
No, I did read it but the dude lost any sort of credibility after the third sentence. If you want to be taken seriously and get people to listen, post a mature response. Calling admins "SJW Nazis" and accusing me of being an advocate for black supremacy will get you nowhere.

I'll give you that right. But! If someone acts like this, he either wants to have a fight or he has had to put in a lot. Yes, maybe it's just a troll, but maybe not and trolls are created when users are treated unfairly. I have explained it to you and I have of own experiences with 2 Admin reported and asked a question in the room. (Who can I ask for help?) Reaction? No, just justifying your opinion. What do you think, as users have problems with the actions of admins and do not get help, feel? No matter whether you are looking for the public or directly. It would have been expected that you or someone else, me on the senior admin pointing, which itself says that he for such events there is. Unfortunately in my case no solution. I need a person who stands above this.

In the past, I used to turn to the Admins, what did it bring me? Not much. Sometimes you were only noticed when you made a tiny mistake one time. See my profile. I wanted to answer answers, came partly only "In doubt, leave it" instead of an explanation. Rules were broken and reported, nothing happened. I have in a thread, which you also had seen and commented, reasonably expressed my opinion and had to let me be half-offended by an Admin, several times and what happened? Nothing.

Husky, if Admin act unbelievably, or act as if they think they are here God, then conflicts are pre-programmed. I have experiences on different websites, not just furry and it's often the same. Important things are dealt with incidentally, and trifles or egoisms are advanced with high pressure, whether they ruin the side. Admittedly, that has to do with not only with Admin, but also the operators of the website. Husky, I know your job is not easy, but if you talk problems, or ignore them will not be better. The better users are treated, the less problems they make !!!!

profpotato said:
i still think that's the wrong way to go about it, because if it was up here once people will mass download for any number of reasons, including archival, giving a heads up by at least 3 days would let people who are DLing it for archival reasons get into high gear and archive these things. but yes people will abusive it, anyone can abuse anything

This does not play a big role, because there are several sites where you can find far more than before was already forbidden here. In this way, the immediate deletion really does not matter.

SJW?

profpotato said:
and FOREVER, SERIOUSLY?, why not just 5 year?

Because of a thing called LAW. It's not your job to decide.

We artist make something putting lot of hard work into it - it's our work, our property. You are not entitled to it. If we decide to make it available for free, that's a privilege not a right.

And we would like to eat too, you know. It's already hard enough to make a living with art, people stealing out stuff because they feel entitled to it doesn't help.

Feel free to contact artists and try to convince them to make their paid stuff available after 2 years, but it's their decision, not yours, or of anybody else.

Also: Until now artists might have requested to be put on the Do Not Post list simply because they were sick of people stealing their stuff, now that stolen stuff is not allowed they may not feel the need for being on that list, and let people upload whatever they are making publicly available.

Storm-Engineer said:
Because of a thing called LAW. It's not your job to decide.

If the (copyright) law were to be taken seriously, Internet as we know it now would not have existed. There are good reasons to respect artist's will, but conventional law is not among them.

I mean, I get your anger, but please don't be surprised to have people who put their work into this nice thing called 'net that you use spit in your face.

The only meaning of "steal" with respect to art that works on the net, is claiming you made a piece of art when in fact it was some other person. It's not easy to pull off on e6, and if discovered it's a bannable offence (tagging vandalism). Pushing that other meaning you use is better know as "enforcing DRM" and it carries intrinsic consequences that reach far beyond web art and web artists.

hslugs said:
If the (copyright) law were to be taken seriously, Internet as we know it now would not have existed. There are good reasons to respect artist's will, but conventional law is not among them.

I mean, I get your anger, but please don't be surprised to have people who put their work into this nice thing called 'net that you use spit in your face.

The only meaning of "steal" with respect to art that works on the net, is claiming you made a piece of art when in fact it was some other person. It's not easy to pull off on e6, and if discovered it's a bannable offence (tagging vandalism). Pushing that other meaning you use is better know as "enforcing DRM" and it carries intrinsic consequences that reach far beyond web art and web artists.

yup, i fully agree with you, because the copyright law we currently have is not suited for the internet, i mean, how long has it been since anyone has tried to change US copyright law to account for the internet, and like you said "if copyright law was enforced" the internet would be almost nothing but sales sites, and discussion forums, because everything else would be punished by the copyright law.

also like you said the definition of "Steal" becomes really weird and vague when your talking about data, like digital art, say you DL an image, 'how are you stealing it?' because there's no physical thing being stolen, only copied. but that's a story better suited for a lawyer to outline, because i'm just some hobby writer who's a furry, i'm no lawyer.

NotMeNotYou said:
When the brony fad started Hasbro tried to dmca us for all r34 pony artworks and we told them to fuck off. We still host that stuff and will continue doing so.

I don't think I've seen this expanded upon further down the thread. What is the reason for DNP-ing Paddington Bear porn on Paddington and co./Surelock's request but giving a middle finger to Hasbro for trying to DNP MLP porn? Was it because it wasn't worth the hassle to fight for a small amount of pics but losing MLP would've been a huge loss of site's content?

This site will eventually be superseded because of this flaw. In no way am I going to "Follow me on patreon!" for over 15 users and pay ten dollars to each of them. Likewise will I not be paying 25 dollars for 10 jpgs of smut or 75 dollars for a single commission.

LoyalPony said:
This site will eventually be superseded because of this flaw. In no way am I going to "Follow me on patreon!" for over 15 users and pay ten dollars to each of them.

You are aware that in most cases e621 still have lower res versions of pics from people who are on patreon, right?

Likewise will I not be paying 25 dollars for 10 jpgs of smut

Yeah, it's totally how much it costs, no lies detected.

wow.. a lot of complaining from both sides.. basically you have just done wat the usa tried to ban on free internet furry sharing some time last yr, only in a smaller scale.
and this site petitioned not to let it happen

as of art an why some don't pay, I don't even know there are decent artist I don't troll patron or other FA as some hold malware as well, artist I have found on here I have enjoyed like ripli (who cant post as her country is restricted on internet, comics like ''its a hard life'' good luck trying to search new comics outside sites like this as many are real crap

Why not just extend the time to much longer, like 10 or 15 years? Locking it forever flies in the face of any kind of archival purpose this site could claim to have, and it's just pointless anyway, as no one is paying for something that old. 2 years is way too short, certainly, but that doesn't mean that it should be made to never be there. Besides, like the original post said, what will happen to the media that could be lost on those CDs? Are they just gone forever now? 15 years seems long enough for this medium; if money was to be made off of it, it was almost certainly going to happen far sooner.

LoyalPony said:
This site will eventually be superseded because of this flaw. In no way am I going to "Follow me on patreon!" for over 15 users and pay ten dollars to each of them. Likewise will I not be paying 25 dollars for 10 jpgs of smut or 75 dollars for a single commission.

If you don't want to pay for the art then you don't get to have it. If you don't feel like paying for a DVD then you don't get the right to steal it. You want to leave e6 because the admins decided this place won't host pirated images? Then leave. No one's stopping your pathetic self-entitled ass from going elsewhere. But of course, you won't, because you'd rather whinge about it and let everyone know how much you don't care about the artists who put time and effort into their art. Get over it honey buns.

lol well at lest there other places XD

On Patreon
*sigh* And I just got over with bitching over their new logo, and how in the world coral and navy ever work.

Now THIS!

And I'm worrying that some posts might not be granfathered by this new policy unlike the "no solo humans after 2015" policy.

I could respect that it's for the artists, but I can agree a bit that the new policy seems too flawed.

Hypothetically, what if I as an artist would post my own paid content here?

BlackLicorice said:
If you don't want to pay for the art then you don't get to have it. If you don't feel like paying for a DVD then you don't get the right to steal it. You want to leave e6 because the admins decided this place won't host pirated images? Then leave. No one's stopping your pathetic self-entitled ass from going elsewhere. But of course, you won't, because you'd rather whinge about it and let everyone know how much you don't care about the artists who put time and effort into their art. Get over it honey buns.

Please don't be so abrasive.

Then again, there's the maxim where you don't ask an artist for free art.

NotMeNotYou said:
Please don't be so abrasive.

He does need to work on his phrasing.
If he'd said "you're not worth wiping my ass with" it would've been ok.

Munkelzahn said:
He does need to work on his phrasing.
If he'd said "you're not worth wiping my ass with" it would've been ok.

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/313/098/c88.jpg

The more I click on this thread, the more I understand. To say "I'm neutral about it," is kinda vague. The watcher side in me kinda disagrees a bit on the DNP content, still fearing that some stuff especially from old CD packs might not be grandfathered, and the artist side in me also kinda respects that a bit.

TheTundraTerror said:
Bold mine. Sorry, but in the real world, things only have value if other people think so. I can inject paint into my rectum, assblast all over a canvas, and say it's worth $50.

Paint the canvas all white, and it'll be worth 2 million.

JoeX said:
Meh, whatever. It’s only 2500 posts, and e621 is full of plenty of quality porn and artwork. I’m a little bit sad that these posts have been removed, but it’s not that bad. Too many people here are overreacting to a simple rule change.

Basically me a couple of months ago when Patreon changed their logo to a coral and navy line and circle.

LoyalPony said:
This site will eventually be superseded because of this flaw. In no way am I going to "Follow me on patreon!" for over 15 users and pay ten dollars to each of them. Likewise will I not be paying 25 dollars for 10 jpgs of smut or 75 dollars for a single commission.

So, let's break this down. Someone who pledges for ~$50 monthly to artists, websites, youtubers, etc. creators it's easier to give some feedback from this front.

It's easy to be angery if you generilize things to nth degree. This also highlights the difference in viewpoint of avarage user and artist: avarage user might see that they are required to pay hundreds of dollars to get everything while individual artist could be asking for $1 a month. I still believe that the service works the best when patrons are helping to create content for everyone for free which hasn't been too much the case with furry artists, but this isn't rule set in stone either. Many artists I have seen have tier starting from $1 which is access to the content, giving $10 is usually tier to have PSD files (which are usually of no use unless you want to actually do something to the image) and access to some raffles and such, so 15 users and pledging $1 a month is $15/month instead of $150 and of course you can quit at any point.

Patreon is pretty much like any other site. Artists have put their VCL, Furaffinity, Twitter, etc. links on their images since the beginning of time. Only big difference is that instead of just going into your settings and enabling mature content, creators have to put explicit content behing pledge count and have ability to put everything behind pledges. However there are also patreons where majority of the content is completely free, biggest example being Thomas Fischbach, having 454 free posts and 54 requiring pledge. For some, patreon is only monthly tipjar, so they don't even post anything in there at all and there's at least couple artists who have given us direct permission to host their content even if it cannot be found elsewhere than their patreon, because of patreons rule requiring them to require pledge on those.

If we think this from e621 perspective though, up to this point majority of artists who are running patreon with explicit artwork, there have been two main distribution methods: timed exclusivity, restricted resolution or sometimes both. Majority of this artwork has been posted here once the timed exclusivity ends as artists really rarely keep this up to two years and HD and PSD versions are usually kept for patrons only. Patrons are paying more to have access to those. As some artists use so large resolutions now, it can become problematic as people could easily produce physical goods out of them themselves and sell them forward in that form along with other possible issues.

There could be argument made here that those HD versions are the ones that we should have here and for someone who is constantly bitching to users who post downscales from furaffinity (why is it that everyone posts compressed content from there, but suddenly we still have to have everything as HD as possible) this would be ideal from archival standpoint (altough I have many files which would hit the filesize and resolution limit here), however we already have one takedown from artist as there was HD versions of their artwork being posted here - and it wasn't even from patreon, it was the content they had been leaking for long time themselves. So artists could still easily takedown stuff they have in here for that kind of reasons and as long as the SD version weren't made for ants, majority of users are allright with this exchange. Somehow, we have still managed by this on this website and nobody has bat an eye.

But lastly we can come down to the most basic level of conclusion: nobody is forcing you to pay. Just like with any other good you have to exchange money for, you always have choise not to. If someone really is asking for $25 to have access to 10 JPG files and you feel that's way too high, then don't pay. Everyone showing interest on the product and just pirating it, makes creator just raise the price as they see the demand and possible lost sales due to piracy. I would almost say that there's no lack of content and most of it is still absolutely free to consume, were it because someone with too much extra cash paid for it to be created or if artists simply likes creating content for others to enjoy.

AlexYorim said:
Paint the canvas all white, and it'll be worth 2 million.

Then burn the canvas, put glue on a new canvas, and sprinkle the old one's ashes onto the glue.
Bonus points if you somehow turn this into a statement about Trump.
e.g. "Trump loves coal, coal burns to ashes"

AlexYorim said:
Paint the canvas all white, and it'll be worth 2 million.

A painting called Spiegel, blutrot (Blood Red Mirror) sold for over $1.1 million. It's a mirror painted entirely red.

This is what it looks like.

BlueDingo said:
A painting called Spiegel, blutrot (Blood Red Mirror) sold for over $1.1 million. It's a mirror painted entirely red.

This is what it looks like.

there's also an almost entirely blue painting that was sold for nearly 44 million dollars called Onement VI, and this is what it looks like. Sorry for the poor quality, I can't seem to find a noticeably bigger photo of it...

Coffey25 said:
there's also an almost entirely blue painting that was sold for nearly 44 million dollars called Onement VI, and this is what it looks like. Sorry for the poor quality, I can't seem to find a noticeably bigger photo of it...

That is one expensive white line. I wonder... If you add a second white line to that piece, would its value double or halve?

Well, that was quite an interesting trip. Remove some tiny % of posts and watch as it brings the hatred out of some people, mainly two or three that I've witnessed, not to mention the stunning mental gymastics displayed by them to justify disrespecting the staff and the artists original wishes to have it and keep it removed.

BlueDingo said:
A painting called Spiegel, blutrot (Blood Red Mirror) sold for over $1.1 million. It's a mirror painted entirely red.

This is what it looks like.

Coffey25 said:
there's also an almost entirely blue painting that was sold for nearly 44 million dollars called Onement VI, and this is what it looks like. Sorry for the poor quality, I can't seem to find a noticeably bigger photo of it...

This art style is called Color Field painting, and it has existed for over 60 years now.

Some artists just want to mess around with colors instead of painting humans/animals/panoramas.

Volphied said:
This art style is called Color Field painting, and it has existed for over 60 years now.

Some artists just want to mess around with colors instead of painting humans/animals/panoramas.

But is a white line on a blue background worth $44 million, or in any way artistic? Just about anyone could make that themselves for next to nothing. At least put it on a car or something so it looks cool.

BlueDingo said:
But is a white line on a blue background worth $44 million, or in any way artistic? Just about anyone could make that themselves for next to nothing. At least put it on a car or something so it looks cool.

Sigh. Yes. Anyone can draw a white line in Photoshop or whatever program you prefer.

But you have to remember that these artworks are valuable because these colors are real, not digital. Seeing them in person is a completely different experience than you just looking at a photo of them on the internet.

https://www.quora.com/Artwork-What-is-so-special-about-the-Onement-VI-canvas-that-it-sold-for-44-million-at-a-Sothebys-auction

"One thing you have to understand about paintings like these is that seeing them live is completely different from seeing pictures of them on Google. The most striking thing is how big these kinds of paintings are. This makes them, surprisingly, pretty immersive, and for some, they can evoke some kinds of feelings. As such, it's not really surprising to me that some of these artists got famous, and art critics praised their work. This, of course, led to people deeming paintings like Onement VI valuable, leading them to being valued so highly by collectors."

Am I the only one who feels like complaints about modern art have gotten to the "so what's the deal with airline food anyway?" level?

I feel like people who complain about this sort of art don't actually want to understand why it sold for such a high price, or why it is regarded highly, they just want to feel smug for not liking it. It's not really an attitude I can respect.

Art is one of those things that has a lot of value based on who the creator is. Creators who have been recognized as having a significant impact on the art world, and who's paintings are considered to have made some kind of statement, naturally fetch a higher price at auction.

Really it isn't that different from someone who would pay a substantial amount for some other item with historical significance. The more significance, the more value.

Presumably if the original document for Fart Proudly went up at auction, it would sell for significantly more than some modern teenagers fetish porn story. Same basic principle applies here.

Volphied said:
Sigh. Yes. Anyone can draw a white line in Photoshop or whatever program you prefer.

But you have to remember that these artworks are valuable because these colors are real, not digital. Seeing them in person is a completely different experience than you just looking at a photo of them on the internet.

https://www.quora.com/Artwork-What-is-so-special-about-the-Onement-VI-canvas-that-it-sold-for-44-million-at-a-Sothebys-auction

"One thing you have to understand about paintings like these is that seeing them live is completely different from seeing pictures of them on Google. The most striking thing is how big these kinds of paintings are. This makes them, surprisingly, pretty immersive, and for some, they can evoke some kinds of feelings. As such, it's not really surprising to me that some of these artists got famous, and art critics praised their work. This, of course, led to people deeming paintings like Onement VI valuable, leading them to being valued so highly by collectors."

Most people (in the west, at least) have access to suitable art supplies and have enough skill to paint a line on a background.

No matter how you look at it, it's a 8.5'x10' blue rectangle with a straight line on it. If you wanna impress me with color, paint this on an 8.5'x10' canvas. I'd pay top dollar for that.

BlueDingo said:
If you wanna impress me with color, paint this on an 8.5'x10' canvas. I'd pay top dollar for that.

lol kitsch
almost as good as "three wolf moon"

Well, this is an idiotic decision. Much like most people said, things fade in to obscurity real quick on the internet. By the time two years pass, work has either been forgotten, or it has been so widely distributed it doesn't matter if it appears here. I'd be surprised if artists make even 10 bucks every few months from stuff that's old.

e621 was a "grey" site for a very, very long time, and now you decide to go on the righteous "PIRACY IS THE WORST THING EVER" crusade. Yeah, okay, you're "right" from a legal standpoint, but let's be real, the view on piracy is so fucking outdated and ass-backwards. This is not how the internet works.

Clawdragons said:
Am I the only one who feels like complaints about modern art have gotten to the "so what's the deal with airline food anyway?" level?

I feel like people who complain about this sort of art don't actually want to understand why it sold for such a high price, or why it is regarded highly, they just want to feel smug for not liking it. It's not really an attitude I can respect.

Art is one of those things that has a lot of value based on who the creator is. Creators who have been recognized as having a significant impact on the art world, and who's paintings are considered to have made some kind of statement, naturally fetch a higher price at auction.

This. All of this. In fact, they're the only one that consistently increase in value.

http://www.galleryintell.com/barnett-newmans-onement-vi-sets-records-at-sothebys/

Onement VI – the single panel electric blue 8.5 foot by 10.5 foot canvas completed in 1953 and featuring Newman’s signature vertical zip, was consigned to Sotheby’s by Paul Allen, the billionaire co-founder of Microsoft. Allen acquired the painting in 2000 from a private collector for an unnamed sum. It’s rare that an artist sees such dramatic price ascension in such a short time, but less than a sign of market confidence, the final result can be seen as a potential return to speculation on a specific art historical segment. Abstract Expressionism has been the most stable market segment seeing consistent price increases and interest from buyers. Since this is a finite market with a pre-determined number of A level works, buyers are more likely to make an investment into a work by Mark Rothko, Richard Diebenkorn, Barnett Newman, Franz Kline and others than in any other segment and feel a certain sense of confidence in their ROI.

So yeah.

Munkelzahn said:
lol kitsch
almost as good as "three wolf moon"

It's really dreadful isn't it? Which tells me everything I need to know about his opinion on art.

BlueDingo said:
If you wanna impress me with color, paint this on an 8.5'x10' canvas. I'd pay top dollar for that.

Looking at that image, I'm forcibly reminded of this Oglaf comic.

Kaik said:
e621 was a "grey" site for a very, very long time, and now you decide to go on the righteous "PIRACY IS THE WORST THING EVER" crusade.

Uh, no? e621 has been accepting DMCA requests for a very long time now.

Waba said:
That's not how it works. You can open a store and get people in it, but if no one's buying anything, there's no income. Perfect example is Wikipedia. They've been begging for donations for years to prevent putting ads on their site yet everyone visits that site daily for whatever reason.

I didn't say no one's buying anything, I said no site ads. As long as there is site traffic, creative marketers can find a way to make money.

There are plenty of sites on the internet that make money without displaying ads.

I agree with this change. From what I know, there are a lot of artists that could really use the cash flow from Patreon and other places.

If people post paid content, no one will want to support the artist, because they can get whatever they put out on here. It nullifies the reward system on Patreon.

Furthermore, it's not up to consumers if they can post or not - it is the artist's work and decisions, anything other is piracy and screwing the artist over.

"Name recognition" doesn't pay bills or fund the next project. How many people on here have spare cash around that they want to donate to artists? People will see the work, yes, but hardly anyone will go and support the artist.

hslugs said:
If the (copyright) law were to be taken seriously, Internet as we know it now would not have existed.

and

profpotato said:
yup, i fully agree with you, because the copyright law we currently have is not suited for the internet

In one hand these arguments don't make any sense. You state copyright law doesn't matter because in your opinion it doesn't fit the Internet, or because others violate it which justifies that you violate it too (it doesn't.)

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/no-true-scotsman
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/bandwagon

In the other hand, you still ignore the fact that art doesn't grow on trees, but is created by people, through hard work and effort, and after spending much more hard work to even learn how to do that. An artwork is the creator's intellectual property. If I paint something it's mine - not yours, not anyone else's. Now, while I agree that art should be accessible to the masses - which is why I release my art with a Creative Commons license - it is still my unique work, a part of me, and I care about who uses it for what and how.

The fact is that thousands if creators are getting ripped off every day by people making money by taking these artists' work and reselling it, making products with it, or putting it on their website they earn ad revenue from, while the actual creator often struggles to pay their bills.

Pirating a game without paying is stealing. Pirating a movie or music without paying is stealing. So why should visual art be magically OK to pirate?

The answer is: it shouldn't.

The copyright law is bad indeed - it is bad because it barely protects artists. It's bad because if you steal my design and make bank with it I have to go through a complicated process to have it taken down, and I still won't get the damages caused back. In the meanwhile if you download a single MP3, the music industry sends the whole fucking FBI on you to hunt you down (obviously exaggerating) but nobody gives a fuck about visual artists like me.

First of all:
I haven't read everything here...

Second:
A statistic in the EU has shown, that piracy doesn't hurt the sales. Statistically. That particular study has been kept a secret for ~2 years...

Third:
I actually don't give a damn. If I want some smut from e.g. Fortuna (Full DNP here) I go to her FA. If I want someone else's smut, I try to find it online and don't force sites like e621 to host it because it was publicly accessible once...

Why is there such a enormous rage is some people over this?

(Sorry for any mistakes, sent from phone)

Anonymous3355 said:
First of all:
I haven't read everything here...

Second:
A statistic in the EU has shown, that piracy doesn't hurt the sales. Statistically. That particular study has been kept a secret for ~2 years...

Third:
I actually don't give a damn. If I want some smut from e.g. Fortuna (Full DNP here) I go to her FA. If I want someone else's smut, I try to find it online and don't force sites like e621 to host it because it was publicly accessible once...

Why is there such a enormous rage is some people over this?

(Sorry for any mistakes, sent from phone)

I wish everyone had maintained this tone of civility. It is refreshing to see.

I think I might have realized why this thread has been so hostile though.

There is an effect wherein if someone feels that they are being criticized morally, they react defensively, even if no such criticism has actually taken place. This happens a lot with, as an example, vegetarianism, where one person learning that another is vegetarian may react with hostility and aggressiveness, as if they were being judged (even when that may not be the case).

I wonder if that same thing happened here? A subconscious train of thought something like this:

"This site has stopped hosting pirated work because they say it's the right thing to do. But I pirate things. Are they suggesting that I am doing something wrong? I'm not a bad person, of course I'm not doing something wrong. How dare they criticize my actions! Activate anger module, prepare for posting!"

Clawdragons said:
There is an effect wherein if someone feels that they are being criticized morally, they react defensively, even if no such criticism has actually taken place. This happens a lot with, as an example, vegetarianism, where one person learning that another is vegetarian may react with hostility and aggressiveness, as if they were being judged (even when that may not be the case).

I wonder if that same thing happened here? A subconscious train of thought something like this:

"This site has stopped hosting pirated work because they say it's the right thing to do. But I pirate things. Are they suggesting that I am doing something wrong? I'm not a bad person, of course I'm not doing something wrong. How dare they criticize my actions! Activate anger module, prepare for posting!"

It's kinda like when the mere mention of pedophilia causes a whole bunch of people to start posting 4 page arguments about it or when fanboys completely lose their shit after someone criticizes an image containing something they're a fan of, even if the thing they're a fan of wasn't even mentioned.

Yeah, that's probably what's happening here.

Acolyte said:
I didn't say no one's buying anything, I said no site ads. As long as there is site traffic, creative marketers can find a way to make money.

There are plenty of sites on the internet that make money without displaying ads.

And those ways don't exist if there is nothing to sell. We can keep doing this but you will lose every time.

BlueDingo said:
It's kinda like when the mere mention of pedophilia causes a whole bunch of people to start posting 4 page arguments about it or when fanboys completely lose their shit after someone criticizes an image containing something they're a fan of, even if the thing they're a fan of wasn't even mentioned.

Yeah, that's probably what's happening here.

I'm not sure if the pedophilia thing is the same.

There might be some aspect that is the same. Because a lot of people do find people under the age of consent to be attractive, there is some defensiveness about "I'm not a pedophile! I'm not abnormal!", but I think with that particular topic there is a whole lot else going on.

Though, that said, I think if we're talking about, say, cub porn, or even loli/shota artwork, then you're right, this would be a major factor.

The fandom rage example is also a good one. In that case it's less a defensiveness brought on by a perceived moral judgement, but there is still the fear of judgement all the same. "They think this show is dumb? But I like it. I'm not dumb!"

Volphied said:
Uh, no? e621 has been accepting DMCA requests for a very long time now.

I can't help remembering post #21555, from 8 years ago.

I wonder if it predates the user account of the person you were replying to. With a 5-digit ID, it's a fairly old post.

Clawdragons said:
I wonder if that same thing happened here? A subconscious train of thought something like this:

"This site has stopped hosting pirated work because they say it's the right thing to do. But I pirate things. Are they suggesting that I am doing something wrong? I'm not a bad person, of course I'm not doing something wrong. How dare they criticize my actions! Activate anger module, prepare for posting!"

It probably is something along these lines. It's easy to convince yourself, when piracy is so easy to do and so hard to enforce, that nobody actually cares and that it is simply acceptable to pirate content. Especially if you're, say, in college or otherwise have no disposable income to put towards supporting content creators anyways.

I can't wait for that dragon dick manufacturer and that furry dating scam to drop their advertising agreement with this site because it doesn't get any traffic anymore.

Regret109 said:
I can't wait for that dragon dick manufacturer and that furry dating scam to drop their advertising agreement with this site because it doesn't get any traffic anymore.

That dragon dick manufacturer owns this site.

They don't "pay" to have their advertising here.

Regret109 said:
I can't wait for that dragon dick manufacturer and that furry dating scam to drop their advertising agreement with this site because it doesn't get any traffic anymore.

"Oh no, the traffic on my own website is down a negligible amount because we deleted less than one fifth of one percent of the images we host. It will take a whole three days to replace all those images, the horror! I better stop advertising my own products for free there. The agreement I made with myself is definitely off."

Regret109 said:
I can't wait for that dragon dick manufacturer and that furry dating scam to drop their advertising agreement with this site because it doesn't get any traffic anymore.

Because clearly all of our traffic is because of that 0.2% and no one is here for the remaining 99.8% that's still available and still free.

*glances thru*
So if I understand detractors correctly, forexposure_txt should actually be taken seriously, and making art sexual makes the artist's time and talent less valuable, somehow.
It's 'smut' ergo it's disposable. It's us leering creeps, not those who take the time to study & practice anatomy, composition, perspective and what have you to decide what is given out for free when. If I am understanding the detractors against the new rule correctly, I cannot agree.

It's like a certain subset of toxic gamers who somehow feel superior to the people who actually made the games they play (and suffered the crunch time and job insecurity that now comes with working in that field) because of how quickly these game fans can 'git-gud.'

The removal of this "Two year rule" is incredibly predatory and only serves to inflate the sense of self-righteousness of this site's staff. This hurts both the users, and the artists who rely on this, the biggest furry smut database, for visibility. Everything about this rule change is unreasonable. To the users and staff that think otherwise, behold;

I. The two year rule was perfectly sensible.
Two years, in internet time, is a long time. And the people who view paid content on here still aren't getting the raw files, selectivity through polls, or timely delivery that those who directly support the artist gets. Two years is also just plainly a long time. It's very hard to visualize how much time is encompassed in two years. Two years of artistic improvement, two years of trends changing, and two years of an artist's standards changing means most artists have either given up on monetizing their work from two years ago, or think the value is no longer monetary.
It's unreasonable to think that digital images of foxes getting boned will hold their value after two years.

II. The price of furry porn is too damn high.
"Pay for the content you want to see." Ok. It's not unusual to see an artist charging upwards of $10, sometimes $15 dollars a month for full resolution versions of their images and videos. Admittedly, most charge around $5. If you supported every artist who's content you are interested in seeing, than you'd be paying hundreds of dollars every month. Waiting two years to view furry porn for free is a fine trade-off to paying for it, and seeing now.
It's unreasonable to expect anyone besides an Arabian oil prince to afford all the furry content they want to see.

III. This hurts an artist's ability to build their audience, and reach potential costumers.
Nearly everyone who likes an artist, band, or any media developer for that matter, has viewed that content without paying for it, or seeing or hearing ads distributed throughout it. This site is the biggest out there for what it does, so it has an obligation to artists and it's users to provide the widest gamut of art that it can, even art that was once pay to view. Artists cannot rely on just their patreon or digital storefront alone to showcase what their paid content is like, especially ones who only post paid content.
It's unreasonable to expect this site's users to find the fine work of artists they want to support without the "Two year rule".

IV. The e621 staff is a self-serving, self-obsorbed, and self-righteous entity, that is not concerned with the best interest of it's artists, or it's users.
E621 has been slowly stigmatizing itself from the furry community for a while now. From poor user moderating, to artists getting so frustrated that their paid content is being posted, that they opt to DNP themselves altogether. Did e621 reach out it's users, the party most concerned with a massive change like this, to crowd-source a better alternative? No. Did they reach out to the vast, vast number of artists who couldn't care less about the monetization of their work that is over two years old? No. Did they give the handful artists who do care even the option to opt out of the "Two year rule?" No. Did they agree to compromise between themselves, the artists and the users by posting the content after two years but at a resolution, say, >1280×720 px? Of course not. Instead they made a decision that's an absolute, and absolute decisions are nearly always the wrong one. This is also a decision that directly attacks it's users, a group that I suspect the e621 staff has come to resent. The bios of some administrators and moderators are totally saturated with toxicity to the user, and some staff in this thread have done nothing but shame it's users for "pirating". There are also accounts online of admins abusing their power for either no discernible reason, or because they just don't like the user. But those are anecdotal statements, and I can't possibly verify that information unless more people come forward inb4 I get perma banned. I know you guys don't get paid, and this job isn't easy, but come on.
It's unreasonable to expect the e621 staff, notorious for incompetence and poor reasoning, to make a decision that doesn't hurt nearly every party involved.

I hope the morality boner you got from this is worth throwing every artist, user, and shred of common sense you have under the proverbial "I think pirating is bad because I'm very narrow-minded" bus. I know this wont change your mind, as you've already, foolishly, put your hobbled together plan into action. This and the initial post above are merely the articles that highlight why users will start migrating to other, less oppressively restrictive websites. I can only hope that artists will periodically post their art for free after a few years on their own terms and accord. Which may be better, who knows. Things are always better when left in the hands of the individual, rather than an administration, furry porn or otherwise.

Also,

TheGreatWolfgang said:
That dragon dick manufacturer owns this site.

They don't "pay" to have their advertising here.

You learn more every day, thanks.
And;

Clawdragons said:
"Oh no, the traffic on my own website is down a negligible amount because we deleted less than one fifth of one percent of the images we host. It will take a whole three days to replace all those images, the horror! I better stop advertising my own products for free there. The agreement I made with myself is definitely off."

E621 isn't capitalizing on it's status by charging it's advertisers? or is it just the world's premier horse dildo store? Either way, fewer users isn't in the best interest of any site.

BlueDingo said:
Because clearly all of our traffic is because of that 0.2% and no one is here for the remaining 99.8% that's still available and still free.

Not what I meant; By virtue of Viral Darwinism, this site will get less traffic if it keeps making demonstrably poor decisions that screw over users and artists, thus alienating them from the site. I'd love to see an alternative that can square up to e621. In the meantime, I'm gonna kick, piss, and write essays all over myself until e621 improves it's own website, or someone else takes the initiave to takes it's place. Also, with the rise of Patreon, it's been easier for artists to monetize their content. Which is a good thing, but that also means that a lot more content is behind a paywall. Content that would be on this site in two years if not for the rule change. The share of content that people who are not made out of money or resourceful enough to use u18chan will miss out on is larger than you think.

Holy fuck, Regret, please use the \

formatting. That is a massive wall of text, and I think other people would appreciate the shortening of it too.

despite what fewrahuxo and NotMeNotYou, NotMeNotYou's argument works for copyright whether we like it or not by law, but fewra's argument works if the artist simply has not put on a copyright on their work, whether they choose to have it as a paid artwork or not is irrelevant. If it's not copyrighted and on the internet, it's public domain by definition

also, nice job in kicking fewrahuxo for simply having a different viewpoint here which apparently makes him 'harassing' and 'trolling' which got him banned some time in the last 10 days. If what you say is right and what the website is going with, why did you silence fewrahuxo? Seems suspicious if you ask me