Requested feature overview description.
Extending the tagging system to allow artist and/or character owners (in short: suppliers) optionally to define locked tags that can not be changed directly by the community. The community can suggest tag changes which have to be reviewed by the suppliers or e621 team if suppliers doesn't react after a long period. If a suggestion is not accepted it should locked permanently for further community suggestions.

Why would it be useful?
Suppliers have more control how their art work got tagged. Seeing a character got tagged with the wrong gender according to the supplier's lore might be unsatisfying for suppliers. It reduces tagging wars (especially at gender on art work with unclear character's gender) and unhappy suppliers.

Why wouldn't it be useful?
It can create strange combinations where the art work tags, like gender, doesn't match to the community suggested gender. It can actually break the TWYS rule. Trolling suppliers might lock tags which are not approved by the original artist and/or character owners.

What part(s) of the site page(s) are affected?
- TWYS rule
- tagging system

...so, you are suggesting a system that allows people to freely ignore site rules just because they dont like it... that ALSO creates a metric shitton of regular extra work for staff and inevitably would cause posts to be tagged against rules

post #990690

Lord_Eggplant said:
...so, you are suggesting a system that allows people to freely ignore site rules just because they dont like it... that ALSO creates a metric shitton of regular extra work for staff and inevitably would cause posts to be tagged against rules

e6 is a community driven platform, I'm suggesting this because I'm unsatisfied by the current TWYS rule.

Giving suppliers more rights on how their art work got tagged might result in more work of the staff. If you think about it, you'd realize it's a very fair system, for both, suppliers and the community.

You won't bite into the hand that feeds you, don't you?

This thread again?

ashnu said:
Giving suppliers more rights on how their art work got tagged might result in more work of the staff. If you think about it, you'd realize it's a very fair system, for both, suppliers and the community.

If I'm searching for adult furry male, I want to see characters that look like adult furry male. I do not want characters that look like underage human female, just because lore says they are thousand years old dragon male.

No. This would only result us licking foots of first party who is so insecure about their characters/work to point that referring them incorrectly makes them uncomfortable while fucking over everyone else in the process. TWYS is the foundadion of all everything for a good reason and this would severely fuck it up.

E: We have takedown form. If someone is really so triggered about how tagging system works, then the site is better of without them, when they can't disconnect objective system from their own ideals.

No, TWYS will not be compromised to satisfy you.

If you dislike our rules pack up your things and leave.

Mairo said:
This thread again?

If I'm searching for adult furry male, I want to see characters that look like adult furry male. I do not want characters that look like underage human female, just because lore says they are thousand years old dragon male.

No. This would only result us licking foots of first party who is so insecure about their characters/work to point that referring them incorrectly makes them uncomfortable while fucking over everyone else in the process. TWYS is the foundadion of all everything for a good reason and this would severely fuck it up.

It's artist freedom to say what your character is. I know that my feature request is not the ultimate solution for everything. I think it's a good way to start to discuss the TWYS rule and tagging system.

I'm a little bit upset that you get a little bit enraged by my feature request.

Mairo said:
E: We have takedown form. If someone is really so triggered about how tagging system works, then the site is better of without them, when they can't disconnect objective system from their own ideals.

I used the takedown requests regularly, but it's not worth it to delete art work imho. I scrap very nice art work away, only because its tags breaks the lore. If the TWYS rule is a little bit more fair to suppliers I might stop to request takedowns.

PS: I don't want to be the bad guy who requests takedowns.

How am I supposed to search for an image if tags are not representing on it?

Example : You tag apple with "orange", I want to fap to some apples but there aren't any because they are tagged as orange. Even though it looks like an apple, someone said it's an orange so it's tagged as orange.

There's a description, or hell, you can even write on an image whatever "lore" you want.
But when I want to fap, I fap to what I see on the image, not what's in someones mind.

NotMeNotYou said:
No, TWYS will not be compromised to satisfy you.

If you dislike our rules pack up your things and leave.

Is it forbidden to discuss it? I'm part of the e6 community, if I commission popular artists it's nearly guaranteed that it will be posted here, because e6 is an integral part of the furry fandom.

AoBird said:
There's a description, or hell, you can even write on an image whatever "lore" you want.
But when I want to fap, I fap to what I see on the image, not what's in someones mind.

Do you have seen how much red it get when you add the gender correct to the lore into the description? It's frustrating.

ashnu said:
It's artist freedom to say what your character is. I know that my feature request is not the ultimate solution for everything. I think it's a good way to start to discuss the TWYS rule and tagging system.

I'm a little bit upset that you get a little bit enraged by my feature request.

I used the takedown requests regularly, but it's not worth it to delete art work imho. I scrap very nice art work away, only because its tags breaks the lore. If the TWYS rule is a little bit more fair to suppliers I might stop to request takedowns.

Artists freedom to say what character is, is completely differend thing from tagging system and I hate everyone who cannot seperate these two things.

Tags used doesn't change what character is, tags are there only to make content itself easier to find and blacklist. These have objective usage and TWYS tries to make it as objective and functional as possible. For descriptions, there's description. For character bio, there's wiki.

TWYS isn't perfect, but so isn't any other tagging system. Right now this entire site is based on that, so changing this will mean changing tagging on every single one of 1543711 posts manually. There has been discussion about lore specific tags which would be completely seperate from regular tags, but right now they aren't a thing and there are feature request thread for this.

ashnu said:
Is it forbidden to discuss it? I'm part of the e6 community, if I commission popular artists it's nearly guaranteed that it's posted here, because e6 is an integral part of the furry fandom.

It's not forbidden to discuss this, but every time it's being discussed, there's single individual who refuses to listen to reason, because they were referred with wrong gender once and now system based on how computers handle data is sexist.

ashnu said:
Is it forbidden to discuss it? I'm part of the e6 community, if I commission popular artists it's nearly guaranteed that it will be posted here, because e6 is an integral part of the furry fandom.

The issue is you don't want change for the sake of the community, you want change to suit your own desires.

Case in point:

ashnu said:
[...] because I'm unsatisfied by the current TWYS rule.
[...]

This community is far bigger than you are, and the rules are carefully shaped to help the community at large. Compromising TWYS directly hurts the community.

Mairo said:
Artists freedom to say what character is, is completely differend thing from tagging system and I hate everyone who cannot seperate these two things.

Tags used doesn't change what character is, tags are there only to make content itself easier to find and blacklist. These have objective usage and TWYS tries to make it as objective and functional as possible. For descriptions, there's description. For character bio, there's wiki.

People mostly judge character's gender based on tags, embroil debates on character's gender. Tagging is a mixture of objectivity and subjectivity. e.g. FA's tagging system is too subjective, people can't suggest objective tags. e6's tagging system is too objective. IB's tagging system is a perfect mix of objectivity and subjectivity with suggestions. I suggested this tagging system as the optimal one.

Mairo said:
TWYS isn't perfect, but so isn't any other tagging system. Right now this entire site is based on that, so changing this will mean changing tagging on every single one of 1543711 posts manually. There has been discussion about lore specific tags which would be completely seperate from regular tags, but right now they aren't a thing and there are feature request thread for this.

It's not forbidden to discuss this, but every time it's being discussed, there's single individual who refuses to listen to reason, because they were referred with wrong gender once and now system based on how computers handle data is sexist.

You are right. But I ask myself why are lore specific tags not implemented yet. Are they not significant enough? Or does the team don't WANT to implement them? Is it programmatically not possible?

It has a significance, there are enough users which want to know what the suppliers want to express. It's maybe a small part of the community, but I thing it's important to give them a voice, debate objective on it.

Some guys left e6, hating the whole site because they are dissatisfied with the TWYS. I don't want to be forced into this ignorant group.

NotMeNotYou said:
The issue is you don't want change for the sake of the community, you want change to suit your own desires.

Case in point:

This community is far bigger than you are, and the rules are carefully shaped to help the community at large.

How did you know that I'm the only one, a single user? It's a common mistake to think that I'm alone with my thoughts. You can't know it, users tend to NOT express their thoughts when it comes to change the rules. This request is only open for around 3 hours.

I can't deny that's my desire to express my thoughts here. It's a point to start, not a complete solution.

NotMeNotYou said:
Compromising TWYS directly hurts the community.

Unsatisfied suppliers takedown their art work hurt the community too.

Obviously, you're not the only one, since this kind of thread appears often enough to be wearisome. But on the other hand, so far this thread is 5 vs. 1, against.

I remain 100% in favor of TWYSNWYK. As an end-user, I don't care that Natani identifies as male (though it's getting complicated ). To contrive an example, I cannot conceive of anyone ever searching for "male" and expecting to find post #1299468. Polluting the tagging system in that way would not be helpful, but meanwhile the superfans who know the lore will also know where the tags are "wrong" even though they're technically "right".

ashnu said:
How did you know that I'm the only one, a single user? It's a common mistake to think that I'm alone with my thoughts. You can't know it, users tend to NOT express their thoughts when it comes to change the rules. This request is only open for around 3 hours.

You're not the first person to bring up this subject, you won't be the last. So far every time this subject has come up; whether it's in my emails, dmails, journals on FA, comments on tagging wars, or takedowns; it's always just individuals being unhappy that they can't do a thing that only benefits them.

Your proposed change does not benefit most of our users, and instead would cause most users problems because we'd have to make our already complex rules even more complex. We'd also need to deal with users getting upset that things they search for return blatantly incorrect results.

ashnu said:

Unsatisfied suppliers takedown their art work hurt the community too.

Hurts our community much less than the alternative.

NotMeNotYou said:
You're not the first person to bring up this subject, you won't be the last. So far every time this subject has come up; whether it's in my emails, dmails, journals on FA, comments on tagging wars, or takedowns; it's always just individuals being unhappy that they can't do a thing that only benefits them.

Your proposed change does not benefit most of our users, and instead would cause most users problems because we'd have to make our already complex rules even more complex. We'd also need to deal with users getting upset that things they search for return blatantly incorrect results.

It sounds like you every time block the request and will block the request in the future for "sake of the community". Insignificance and ignorance are such bad things. It forces users to hate or ignore this image board. There is only a good and a bad side, no guys are allowed that want to improve the situation for a minority, getting creative, want to change something unfair. It's such a shame that individuals of a community can not change a system build on a their community that don't even listen to them. I hope that this don't end to a dead end. I hope that some time in the future the individuals got heard and not ignored.

It's frustrating that there is no alternative to ignoring and takedown requests.
Even when you put a disclaimer in the source's description, "do not post this to e621", it gets ignored and even the team ignore it. It's the greatest shame to not follow the etiquette. No means NO. It's like to promote that art piracy (or art theft) is a good thing.

Insignificance even blocks artists from the DNP list. There is no definition that an artist is. Purely subjective.

NotMeNotYou said:
If you dislike our rules pack up your things and leave.

It is probably the best thing, even if it's wrong. If it makes you happy "I give up and obey the rules!". Be prepared for more takedown requests. Even if you say "it's such a shame that you request the takedown". It's my view on it and shitty rules.

I feel like suggesting that a booru to not be a booru because you don't like how boorus operate is kind of absurd, I can understand not wanting your art or your characters here, but wanting the essence of a website to change because you dislike it and/or refuse to understand it...

ikdind said:
I remain 100% in favor of TWYSNWYK. As an end-user, I don't care that Natani identifies as male (though it's getting complicated ). To contrive an example, I cannot conceive of anyone ever searching for "male" and expecting to find post #1299468. Polluting the tagging system in that way would not be helpful, but meanwhile the superfans who know the lore will also know where the tags are "wrong" even though they're technically "right".

This is the best explanation that you'll get. Also, many people have said that you can use the description field to add the tags you think that apply according to outer sources (or 'lore'). For other to look up said tags there's description:abc (see Cheatsheet )

ashnu said:
People mostly judge character's gender based on tags, embroil debates on character's gender. Tagging is a mixture of objectivity and subjectivity. e.g. FA's tagging system is too subjective, people can't suggest objective tags. e6's tagging system is too objective. IB's tagging system is a perfect mix of objectivity and subjectivity with suggestions. I suggested this tagging system as the optimal one.

You are right. But I ask myself why are lore specific tags not implemented yet. Are they not significant enough? Or does the team don't WANT to implement them? Is it programmatically not possible?

It has a significance, there are enough users which want to know what the suppliers want to express. It's maybe a small part of the community, but I thing it's important to give them a voice, debate objective on it.

Some guys left e6, hating the whole site because they are dissatisfied with the TWYS. I don't want to be forced into this ignorant group.

Changes are that if I find something I needed on inkbunny, it was trough MD5 search rather than tags. I do like that inkbunny enforces some level of proper tagging, but their main goal still isn't so much of archival level, so if I do want to find specific things, they might not be tagged (really rarely see tags for alpha channel images, fur color or angle of the image - or something more common that is character standing or sitting or is male nude or clother and if nude, are they erect or flaccid) or alternatively first party is deliberately nuking relevant tags because they dislike them. Which in inkbunnys case is fine, because that's site where artists are having their personal galleries they maintain, which isn't what e621 is doing. Nuking tags here is againts the rules and so is tagging againts admins ruling.

FurryNetwork does have community tagging feature as well, the site that ads are constantly running on top of e621 pages as filler space. Because FurryNetwork and e621 have completely differend goals from each other and because of this, other can have more layback tags where other has everything enforced.

I'm pretty sure they aren't implemented for the same reason why it took a year to get webm thumbnails (thanks kira so much for this), it's not exactly crucial for working of the site, but it would rather be the feature for specifically those not liking the tagging system in place, so I can imagine something like that not being at the top of the todo list. However I'm not the one doing these things, so I'm not even sure if it's on the todo list to begin with yet and I would also imagine that after implementation that would also require someone to enforce these things or system to verify that only right persons can change these tags which brings even more work.

Again, there's description field and wiki, I still do not know what's the problem is with these features if you do want to inform things which cannot be informed with tags? And I do say to use it properly instead of passive aggressive way that the wiki article seemed to be written according to its history.

Also I deleted artwork not too many days ago, because character owner was sad that their upload got three downvotes. I don't deny that there have been people flipping the tables in rage because of our tagging system, but in comparison to all other reasons that people get their artwork out of here, it doesn't seem like massive portion of it. Also as NotMeNotYou is handling our takedowns, I'm pretty certain they are aware of majority reasons and opinions and act according to them.

ashnu said:
Unsatisfied suppliers takedown their art work hurt the community too.

For some reason I really dislike word "supplier", makes it sound that they are just providing us with a product that we need to make business, rather than something unique to host and mirror.

It's true that without artists, this would be pretty worthless site to check out. However there are situations where you have to evaluate between two bad choises and which one is worse. Breaking tagging system, searching and blacklisting for all users sounds like extreme measure to keep relatively low amount of content up.

Xch3l said:
This is the best explanation that you'll get. Also, many people have said that you can use the description field to add the tags you think that apply according to outer sources (or 'lore'). For other to look up said tags there's description:abc (see Cheatsheet )

We do also have sets which you can technically use as tag if you are willing to maintain the set yourself (set:actuallycuntboy for example) and because character names are always tagged, users with the knowledge that character is other gender in lore can just use the characters name tag to search.

I'm gonna just say I feel like the cuntboy tag would be a lot less problematic in general with TWYS if furry art wasn't a fantasy medium where whether a "body type" is considered masculine or feminine is nebulous and highly subjective.

As it is, cuntboy tagging standards just seem like a tug-of-war between people trying to get canonically-cuntboy characters tagged cuntboy, and people trying to keep flat-chested female characters tagged female.

MagnusEffect said:
I'm gonna just say I feel like the cuntboy tag would be a lot less problematic in general with TWYS if furry art wasn't a fantasy medium where whether a "body type" is considered masculine or feminine is nebulous and highly subjective.

As it is, cuntboy tagging standards just seem like a tug-of-war between people trying to get canonically-cuntboy characters tagged cuntboy, and people trying to get flat-chested female characters tagged female.

I'd wondered if this had something to do with intersex tags, but there's currently only one post tagged "ashnu" and its gender tagging is in agreement with the FA source, so I can only assume this relates to something else more historical.

ikdind said:
I'd wondered if this had something to do with intersex tags, but there's currently only one post tagged "ashnu" and its gender tagging is in agreement with the FA source, so I can only assume this relates to something else more historical.

If you look around his tag edits there are deleted posts where his character was tagged female or male, and if you go to those posts there are comments complaining about it.

As much as I personally dislike the gender tagging stuff, specifically the words used in some tags, it is what it is. It still bothers me but now that I know the description is an option it bothers me a little less.

This site has the most comprehensible tagging system I've ever seen. It's RIDICULOUSLY helpful in finding things, and in keeping things hidden via the blacklist.

ashnu said:
and/or character owners (in short: suppliers)

There is no definition that an artist is. Purely subjective.

Mairo said:
For some reason I really dislike word "supplier"

It fits with commissioners who prefer to be considered an icon within the world of furry art commissioning, rather than just a participant.

ashnu said:
PS: I don't want to be the bad guy who requests takedowns.

Be prepared for more takedown requests.

Even when you put a disclaimer in the source's description, "do not post this to e621", it gets ignored and even the team ignore it.

All this for one post, while you uploaded the rest yourself?

MagnusEffect said:
If you look around his tag edits there are deleted posts where his character was tagged female or male, and if you go to those posts there are comments complaining about it.

Oh, right, and also I'd forgotten that status:deleted was a thing. That can be searched. Which is one more reason that e621 is awesome and everywhere else feels like a step back into the freaking dark ages.

ashnu said:
It's such a shame that individuals of a community can not change a system build on a their community that don't even listen to them.

This is an image gallery, not a community.
I can guarantee that a lot of the regular users are so tired of this topic that they
won't even touch it. Heard it all before too many times, and you have absolutely nothing new to add to the discussion.

No, we're not going to tear down the foundation that the site is built on. Go make your own if you don't like it.

MagnusEffect said:
I'm gonna just say I feel like the cuntboy tag would be a lot less problematic in general with TWYS if furry art wasn't a fantasy medium where whether a "body type" is considered masculine or feminine is nebulous and highly subjective.

As it is, cuntboy tagging standards just seem like a tug-of-war between people trying to get canonically-cuntboy characters tagged cuntboy, and people trying to keep flat-chested female characters tagged female.

The character Mikhaila is the best example of a flat chested female got tagged as cuntboy, because she appears boyish.

In my case it is because my character is a cuntboy and got tagged highly subjective, male, cuntboy and female some times. He is girly, which confuses some guys.

ashnu said:
The character Mikhaila is the best example of a flat chested female got tagged as cuntboy, because she appears boyish.

In my case it is because my character is a cuntboy and got tagged highly subjective, male, cuntboy and female some times. He is girly, which confuses some guys.

So, you want an exemption because you believe your character is/was "mistagged"? Despite the ways around the TWYS system you were offered, from using descriptions to creating a wiki page and even using sets, you wish to continue this argument instead?

I mean, the system works for me: cuntboys are blacklisted, and I never see them. Images of characters argued cuntboys but otherwise tagged female aren't blacklisted, and I sometimes like and/or favorite them... there's no flaw here. It's precisely what I expect from an art gallery.

ashnu said:
The character Mikhaila is the best example of a flat chested female got tagged as cuntboy, because she appears boyish.

Well, I'll agree that Mikhaila is an example of how inconsistent the site can be about applying intersex tags, even when given full view of all primary and secondary sex characteristics that the character has. They almost seem purposefully designed to straddle the line between female and intersex/cuntboy. Also, there might be a tag cleanup project here.

ikdind said:
Well, I'll agree that Mikhaila is an example of how inconsistent the site can be about applying intersex tags, even when given full view of all primary and secondary sex characteristics that the character has. They almost seem purposefully designed to straddle the line between female and intersex/cuntboy. Also, there might be a tag cleanup project here.

The artist does indeed draw mik ambiguously, and doesn't care what the thing is tagged as.

ashnu said:
It sounds like you every time block the request and will block the request in the future for "sake of the community". Insignificance and ignorance are such bad things. It forces users to hate or ignore this image board. There is only a good and a bad side, no guys are allowed that want to improve the situation for a minority, getting creative, want to change something unfair. It's such a shame that individuals of a community can not change a system build on a their community that don't even listen to them. I hope that this don't end to a dead end. I hope that some time in the future the individuals got heard and not ignored.

Your proposed change isn't an improvement for the community, your proposal is a radical change of a quintessential part of our page. Our entire tagging system is made around the notion that there are no exceptions, that we treat our tags as objectively as humanly possible, and that nobody's opinion is worth more than that of another user.

Your proposal spits into the face of our entire rule structure by elevating a minority above all other users, and gives them the power to ignore our rules.

ashnu said:

It's frustrating that there is no alternative to ignoring and takedown requests.
Even when you put a disclaimer in the source's description, "do not post this to e621", it gets ignored and even the team ignore it. It's the greatest shame to not follow the etiquette. No means NO. It's like to promote that art piracy (or art theft) is a good thing.

Insignificance even blocks artists from the DNP list. There is no definition that an artist is. Purely subjective.

It is probably the best thing, even if it's wrong. If it makes you happy "I give up and obey the rules!". Be prepared for more takedown requests. Even if you say "it's such a shame that you request the takedown". It's my view on it and shitty rules.

As I've explained to you in our email exchange a couple weeks ago: Our rules are made this way on purpose. We fully know and acknowledge that rules may not suit everyone, but compromising them is not an acceptable solution. That is why we have our takedown system as streamlined and simple as it is.

ikdind said:
Well, I'll agree that Mikhaila is an example of how inconsistent the site can be about applying intersex tags, even when given full view of all primary and secondary sex characteristics that the character has. They almost seem purposefully designed to straddle the line between female and intersex/cuntboy. Also, there might be a tag cleanup project here.

Mikhaila is ambiguous on purpose, so it's natural that her gender will flop around depending on which parts are visible, or exaggerated. But that's also why we encourage to tag names, this way people can find all her art regardless of what gender she appears to be on any given image.
On the other hand our tagging system does allow to filter out specific poses and images that emphasize Mikhaila being something the viewer might not like.

My humble opinion may not be worth voicing, but, as you seem to be quite animated, and I've just recently been thinking about this issue, I'll throw my 2 cents on this into the ring. I mean, since we are making claims about “majority” opinion, it should not, theoretically, hurt to hear from as many random voices, as possible. I promise to keep it real short:

ashnu said:
It sounds like you every time block the request and will block the request in the future for "sake of the community". Insignificance and ignorance are such bad things. It forces users to hate or ignore this image board. There is only a good and a bad side, no guys are allowed that want to improve the situation for a minority, getting creative, want to change something unfair. It's such a shame that individuals of a community can not change a system build on a their community that don't even listen to them. I hope that this don't end to a dead end. I hope that some time in the future the individuals got heard and not ignored.

It's frustrating that there is no alternative to ignoring and takedown requests.
Even when you put a disclaimer in the source's description, "do not post this to e621", it gets ignored and even the team ignore it. It's the greatest shame to not follow the etiquette. No means NO. It's like to promote that art piracy (or art theft) is a good thing.

Insignificance even blocks artists from the DNP list. There is no definition that an artist is. Purely subjective.

It is probably the best thing, even if it's wrong. If it makes you happy "I give up and obey the rules!". Be prepared for more takedown requests. Even if you say "it's such a shame that you request the takedown". It's my view on it and shitty rules.

Pardon, but I am not sure I understand what you're trying to say, here, and no one seemed to answer, directly. You might want to try to restate that. For example, what do you mean when you say “Insignificance”? For the time being, I read it as part of your larger point, about accommodating artists like yourself within the larger scheme of things.

ashnu said:
You are right. But I ask myself why are lore specific tags not implemented yet. Are they not significant enough? Or does the team don't WANT to implement them? Is it programmatically not possible?

I was afraid this point got lost in the flow of the conversation, but then Mairo did essentially give you the answer you were looking for, I believe:

Mairo said:
Changes are that if I find something I needed on inkbunny, it was trough MD5 search rather than tags. I do like that inkbunny enforces some level of proper tagging, but their main goal still isn't so much of archival level, so if I do want to find specific things, they might not be tagged (really rarely see tags for alpha channel images, fur color or angle of the image - or something more common that is character standing or sitting or is male nude or clother and if nude, are they erect or flaccid) or alternatively first party is deliberately nuking relevant tags because they dislike them. Which in inkbunnys case is fine, because that's site where artists are having their personal galleries they maintain, which isn't what e621 is doing. Nuking tags here is againts the rules and so is tagging againts admins ruling.

FurryNetwork does have community tagging feature as well, the site that ads are constantly running on top of e621 pages as filler space. Because FurryNetwork and e621 have completely differend goals from each other and because of this, other can have more layback tags where other has everything enforced.

I'm pretty sure they aren't implemented for the same reason why it took a year to get webm thumbnails (thanks kira so much for this), it's not exactly crucial for working of the site, but it would rather be the feature for specifically those not liking the tagging system in place, so I can imagine something like that not being at the top of the todo list. However I'm not the one doing these things, so I'm not even sure if it's on the todo list to begin with yet and I would also imagine that after implementation that would also require someone to enforce these things or system to verify that only right persons can change these tags which brings even more work.

Again, there's description field and wiki, I still do not know what's the problem is with these features if you do want to inform things which cannot be informed with tags? And I do say to use it properly instead of passive aggressive way that the wiki article seemed to be written according to its history.

Also I deleted artwork not too many days ago, because character owner was sad that their upload got three downvotes. I don't deny that there have been people flipping the tables in rage because of our tagging system, but in comparison to all other reasons that people get their artwork out of here, it doesn't seem like massive portion of it. Also as NotMeNotYou is handling our takedowns, I'm pretty certain they are aware of majority reasons and opinions and act according to them.

For some reason I really dislike word "supplier", makes it sound that they are just providing us with a product that we need to make business, rather than something unique to host and mirror.

It's true that without artists, this would be pretty worthless site to check out. However there are situations where you have to evaluate between two bad choises and which one is worse. Breaking tagging system, searching and blacklisting for all users sounds like extreme measure to keep relatively low amount of content up.

We do also have sets which you can technically use as tag if you are willing to maintain the set yourself (set:actuallycuntboy for example) and because character names are always tagged, users with the knowledge that character is other gender in lore can just use the characters name tag to search.

Bottom line is that the most unassuming fixes to code can sometimes lead you on a wild goose chase down a rabbit hole from hell.
Until Kira or somebody else with superior knowledge confirms or clarifies, I think it's safe to assume this is not an easy fix, at all.

Since we're living in an imperfect world, we always are faced with having to make compromises and tough decisions. Put yourself in the shoes of other members of the community, and see if you can accept a temporary compromise that, while imperfect, actually kind of works for everyone. Or, at least, mostly works for most people, most of the time.

From personal experience, I can only say that I would have never considered searching for femboys were it not for TWYS. Now I think they're the greatest thing ever, lol! I don't know how cuntboys slipped by me, to this point… but maybe they didn't, lol... I'll check that. BTW, I must say: My sweet Lord, that Ashnu is an absolute beauty!!

So, I just thought I'd give you some food for thought from left field, and point out some parts of the thread that didn't seem to add up as nicely. Hope it helped.

Note to self: Never respond on a fast-moving thread like this, ever again. By the time I was done writing and editing this, I refresh the thread only to find several people had already replied. FML LOL. Anyway, I think you may still find value in this, Ashnu. Like I said, think about it from another angle. Sooner or later, you may find yourself agreeing with this line of thinking.

@Echo_Kitsune while this is slightly off-topic, to give advice over your edit: you can possibly use C&P (copy and paste) to solve the problem of missing out on what others may have said whilst you were writing. Just copy the text, refresh the page to view any new comments, and paste your text back into the empty comment field.

ashnu said:
The character Mikhaila is the best example of a flat chested female got tagged as cuntboy, because she appears boyish.

In my case it is because my character is a cuntboy and got tagged highly subjective, male, cuntboy and female some times. He is girly, which confuses some guys.

Your character got tagged male because without visible genitalia a masculine body type defaults to male. In a number of the posts I've looked at your character got tagged female due to a heap of feminine body traits, like prominent hip curves and in at least one case what looks like breast tissue. It's not because your character confuses people, it's because his appearance varies wildly from image to image.

I'm also trying to say cuntboy in general is a disaster of a tag because in this fantasy medium the lines between masculine and feminine are more blurred than in reality, which royally screws everyone's perceptions of TWYS once you get beyond the "no breasts" part of the howto:tag_genders flowcharts in the the "vagina->no breasts" section.

Personally I'd rather have a few cuntboy pictures disappear into female than the majority of flat_chested female disappearing into the often-blacklisted intersex tag.

I think this feature request can be closed as it can't be implemented and the thread moves to off topic.

As application developer I think that lore specific tags could be implemented without compromising the TWYS. I would suggest a new feature request when I have shaped out my ideas in detail.

We need a full rewrite of the page code before we'd even think about adding anything more that's just polish at the moment.

If you want to make a feature request like that wait until we actually know and have a time plan for a rewrite, but that will be a long way off.

ashnu said:
I think this feature request can be closed as it can't be implemented and the thread moves to off topic.

As application developer I think that lore specific tags could be implemented without compromising the TWYS. I would suggest a new feature request when I have shaped out my ideas in detail.

Do note that anything you suggest has probably been suggested and discussed multiple times before, and that it's probably better to just peace out and not waste your time arguing a losing battle.

MagnusEffect said:
I'm also trying to say cuntboy in general is a disaster of a tag because in this fantasy medium the lines between masculine and feminine are more blurred than in reality, which royally screws everyone's perceptions of TWYS once you get beyond the "no breasts" part of the howto:tag_genders flowcharts in the the "vagina->no breasts" section.

Personally I'd rather have a few cuntboy pictures disappear into female than the majority of flat_chested female disappearing into the often-blacklisted intersex tag.

*nods*
I mean, another way for Ashnu to look at the situation is that he might want to show some appreciation for the fine folks, such as yourselves, who wrack their brains and put so much effort into tagging images so incredibly objectively that characters -- the Ashnus, the Greys, the Mikhailas of the world -- are introduced to the widest possible audience. That's a service. That's adding value to the “product”, if you want to continue with the “supplier” analogy.

Siral_Exan said:
@Echo_Kitsune while this is slightly off-topic, to give advice over your edit: you can possibly use C&P (copy and paste) to solve the problem of missing out on what others may have said whilst you were writing. Just copy the text, refresh the page to view any new comments, and paste your text back into the empty comment field.

Thanks.

I'm actually already in the habit of doing this. On that occasion, however, it was late and I was tired, and looking forward to just doing my bit to see if I could help the discussion along -- compose, post, and adios. Bad idea, right? Don't try to help if you can't even take the necessary time. But I figured, “Hey, I never have that time, anyway,” and here's a guy -- looking at you, Ashnu; I hope you'll still be around -- Seemed like he just needed a bit of a different way of looking at the interplay of the relationships at work in the Fandom.

You longtime e6ers probably get enough of these people coming and going, and holding grudges, simply because of misunderstandings that somehow never get cleared up. And it must be tiresome. So, I figured, “I'm newer/fresher, so why don't I try to lend a hand”.

At any rate, I was about to post my reply, and then there were a number of others that got ahead of me. Skimming over the posts, it seemed like my draft hadn't yet become obsolete, so I posted. But I usually hate to reply to threads that haven't slowed to a complete crawl. Newbies like me should generally stand back and shut up, until they gain more understanding.

Anywho, I hope Ashnu stays/comes back and thinks about it. While we can certainly do without him, and any of that “disrespected” minority, it would better suit everyone to think about the situation dispassionately. Sure, everyone would be better served by a perfect system. But you can't just constantly complain and complain and complain about things. If only some people reinvested half the time and energy they spend complaining, take that and put it into learning to code…

NotMeNotYou said:
We need a full rewrite of the page code before we'd even think about adding anything more that's just polish at the moment.

If you want to make a feature request like that wait until we actually know and have a time plan for a rewrite, but that will be a long way off.

I am excited at the fact that this is something that is on the table as a possibility-- if in the far future.