The tag alias #59673 bat -> bat_(species) has been rejected.

Reason: Thread https://e621.net/forum_topics/36246 indicates that tags are being reconsolidated to support standard species names over zoological names in many common cases, including bats. It seems confusing to make this change but not have "bat" itself redirect and this may have just been an oversight, but it's evidently causing confusion for uploaders as I am already seeing a small subset of bat content show up in the "bat" tag.

Thanks!

EDIT: The tag alias bat -> bat_(species) (forum #351851) has been rejected by @Rainbow_Dash.

+1
I can imagine how while writing tags down, one may oversee the existence of the bat_(object) tag, specially when the bat tag is highlighted in orange.

Edit: Reconsidered my opinion.

Now I'm wondering if it might be best to flip it, and have just "bat" be the main tag. So far there doesn't seem to be any mistags

The reason for bat_(species) is because there's multiple different things bat can mean (baseball bat, cricket bat, etc). This alias would cause those uses to be mistagged as a species, so it would be better to disambiguate/invalidate it. And even if you want bat to be usable as the species tag, then there's no need for an alias to bat_(species) as the latter would be redundant.

strikerman said:
Now I'm wondering if it might be best to flip it, and have just "bat" be the main tag. So far there doesn't seem to be any mistags

I think aliasing bat -> bat_(species) would be good as a temporary measure, while the species tagging project is undergoing.
Then we could unalias bat from bat_(species) once it's all done, and create a tagging project to check for mistags ocassionaly. Although besides standarzation, I don't see why do that when the alias can save some work.

Or, when you said to "flip it", did you mean "alias bat_(object) -> bat"?

m3g4p0n1 said:
I think aliasing bat -> bat_(species) would be good as a temporary measure, while the species tagging project is undergoing.
Then we could unalias bat from bat_(species) once it's all done, and create a tagging project to check for mistags ocassionaly. Although besides standarzation, I don't see why do that when the alias can save some work.

Or, when you said to "flip it", did you mean "alias bat_(object) -> bat"?

The first one, bat (species) to bat

watsit said:
The reason for bat_(species) is because there's multiple different things bat can mean (baseball bat, cricket bat, etc). This alias would cause those uses to be mistagged as a species, so it would be better to disambiguate/invalidate it. And even if you want bat to be usable as the species tag, then there's no need for an alias to bat_(species) as the latter would be redundant.

If even Wikipedia, a site about everything, doesn't include an identifier, I'd like to think that the same could hold true for the furry website all about animals. Mistags are just really unlikely to happen, meanwhile I'd say a lot more people are going to accidentally add a disambiguation tag if bat is edited per your suggestion.

strikerman said:
If even Wikipedia, a site about everything, doesn't include an identifier, I'd like to think that the same could hold true for the furry website all about animals. Mistags are just really unlikely to happen, meanwhile I'd say a lot more people are going to accidentally add a disambiguation tag if bat is edited per your suggestion.

In which case, this should be reversed. But this request as it is, isn't good; if the clarification suffix _(species) is needed, then having bat aliased to it will cause mistags. If it's not needed, the suffix is redundant since the tag bat would be a species already.

watsit said:
In which case, this should be reversed. But this request as it is, isn't good; if the clarification suffix _(species) is needed, then having bat aliased to it will cause mistags. If it's not needed, the suffix is redundant since the tag bat would be a species already.

This. Regardless of where you stand on this specific issue, aliasing a base tag to a suffixed tag is literally never a good idea. See topic #35330 for an example where such a species alias did in fact cause significant numbers of mistags.

The bulk update request #3681 is active.

remove alias bat/mammal (0) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove alias chiroptera (0) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove alias bat_(animal) (0) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove alias bats (0) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove alias chiropteran (0) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication bat_(species) (0) -> mammal (3401584)
remove implication ambient_bat (537) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication nimbat (1612) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication pteropodid (9) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication succubat_(dragon_quest) (26) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication bat_humanoid (585) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication bat_taur (2) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication microbat (1460) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication werebat (145) -> bat_(species) (0)

Reason: Once more, with feeling. Per what others have said above.

EDIT: The bulk update request #3681 (forum #351881) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

strikerman said:
...

That got me thinking, what happens when a tag has been aliased to another, but that alias has been undone?
Aren't aliased tags permanently removed/replaced on posts upon update? Can BUR changes automatically be reversed upon approval?

I assume they can, because checking and retagging +39k bat_(species) tagged posts sounds like an impossible task, but doesn't hurt to ask.

Pretty sure I already dealt with a disambiguation like this one? Maybe that one was for bows? :/

bat_(disambiguation)

bat_(species)
baseball_bat
cricket_bat

urielfrys said:
bat_(disambiguation)

bat_(species)
baseball_bat
cricket_bat

That was my point above.

strikerman said:
If even Wikipedia, a site about everything, doesn't include an identifier, I'd like to think that the same could hold true for the furry website all about animals. Mistags are just really unlikely to happen, meanwhile I'd say a lot more people are going to accidentally add a disambiguation tag if bat is edited per your suggestion.

strikerman said:
If even Wikipedia, a site about everything, doesn't include an identifier, I'd like to think that the same could hold true for the furry website all about animals.

e621 cannot be directly compared to Wikipedia. Both sites have different purposes and work in different ways, and that has to be taken into account. How do other imageboards deal with similar issues?

gattonero2001 said:
e621 cannot be directly compared to Wikipedia. Both sites have different purposes and work in different ways, and that has to be taken into account. How do other imageboards deal with similar issues?

Other imageboards hardly compare either given this site's purpose of catering to furry art.

I think Wikipedia is actually a pretty reasonable comparison here. If Wikipedia decides that "bat" requires no disambiguation when referring to the animal, despite having articles for all these other things it could refer to, I'd say it's definitely safe for us to say the animal is the primary topic for the word "bat" on a website that primarily relates to animals.

We're never going to have a tag for "The Bat" rollercoaster that existed between 1981 and 1983 at Kings Island amusement park in Mason, Ohio.

strikerman said:
The bulk update request #3681 is active.

remove alias bat/mammal (0) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove alias chiroptera (0) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove alias bat_(animal) (0) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove alias bats (0) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove alias chiropteran (0) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication bat_(species) (0) -> mammal (3401584)
remove implication ambient_bat (537) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication nimbat (1612) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication pteropodid (9) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication succubat_(dragon_quest) (26) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication bat_humanoid (585) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication bat_taur (2) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication microbat (1460) -> bat_(species) (0)
remove implication werebat (145) -> bat_(species) (0)

Reason: Once more, with feeling. Per what others have said above.

Part 2

alias bat/mammal -> bat
alias chiroptera -> bat
alias bat_(animal) -> bat
alias bats -> bat
alias chiropteran -> bat

imply bat -> mammal

imply ambient_bat -> bat
imply nimbat -> bat
imply pteropodid -> bat
imply succubat_(dragon_quest) -> bat
imply bat_humanoid -> bat
imply bat_taur -> bat
imply microbat -> bat
imply werebat -> bat

excited for this to be finished so that I can return to searching “bat” and see all the beautiful bats

right now “bat” returns basically nothing. crying. dying.

thank you for working on this

faucet said:
We're never going to have a tag for "The Bat" rollercoaster that existed between 1981 and 1983 at Kings Island amusement park in Mason, Ohio.

I challenge all furry artists to produce as much art of furries riding this roller coaster as possible.

Ultimately I think that one of them needs to alias.

Either bat > bat_(species) or bat_(species) > bat

I just want this resolved, but I think "bat" should be the main tag because this is a furry website, and there are definitely way more pictures of bats the animal then there are going to be of baseball bats or whatever other object with the same name. This feels like grasping at straws.

Having "bat" not go anywhere feels like the most obnoxious solution possible for end users.

The bulk update request #3681 (forum #351881) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #3699 is active.

create alias bat_(species) (0) -> bat (58211)
create alias bat/mammal (0) -> bat (58211)
create alias chiroptera (0) -> bat (58211)
create alias bat_(animal) (0) -> bat (58211)
create alias bats (0) -> bat (58211)
create alias chiropteran (0) -> bat (58211)
create implication bat (58211) -> mammal (3401584)
create implication ambient_bat (537) -> bat (58211)
create implication nimbat (1612) -> bat (58211)
create implication pteropodid (9) -> bat (58211)
create implication succubat_(dragon_quest) (26) -> bat (58211)
create implication bat_humanoid (585) -> bat (58211)
create implication bat_taur (2) -> bat (58211)
create implication microbat (1460) -> bat (58211)
create implication werebat (145) -> bat (58211)

Reason: Part 2

EDIT: The bulk update request #3699 (forum #352065) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The tag alias bat -> bat_(species) (forum #351851) has been rejected by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #3699 (forum #352065) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.