Topic: About the law trying to be passed in Arizona

Posted under General

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hiddenbird said:
They don't ever actually think these things out- they just come up with the most radically insane, overton window-shifting policies to "own da libz"- and then the dog catches the car, a majority of the country hates it, and now they're stuck with a bunch of angry/motivated voters on the other side while they have no actual plan/agenda.

see- dobbs

heck looking into it they even admitted to, even if trump wins, the extreme difficulty for them to do this. for one they would need complete control of the house and senate. as in practically no (like only 5%) liberal seats. and even trump is a little gun-shy of how ridiculous this 'project' is. and you know something is ridiculous when the orange idiot is balking.
So basically they'd need a super majority, destroy the constitution so all amendments are gone, and convince all republicans (which as loud as they seem most republicans arnt this crazy), convince the military to follow these crazy orders when its already been stated and proven they wouldnt side with this stuff.... in other words a almost impossibility. wont stop them from trying though.

Updated

silverswan12 said:
I hope this doesn’t pass. It was already passed in North Carolina.

It didn't, it was veto'd by the Governer, so the people earlier in the thread were quite correct!

Still wondering what the plans forward are for many states that this unfortunately did pass in, hopefully all the furries know about VPN's, at least Arizona is safe for now.

casmin7~ said:
It didn't, it was veto'd by the Governer, so the people earlier in the thread were quite correct!

Still wondering what the plans forward are for many states that this unfortunately did pass in, hopefully all the furries know about VPN's, at least Arizona is safe for now.

Looking it up lot of lawsuits are already being thrown about basically saying the invasion of privacy of one of these IDs and the blocking of porn itself is unconstitutional. Federal judges already killed some of these laws set in place (forget exactly where) Texas one should be killed by now on a federal level but the 5th Circuit basically went "no u" but its being pushed even further up the chain. Its gonna take a while but the general consensus is "government IDs for porn is unsafe and unconstitutional and we need to find a better way to protect minors without invading and endangering adults privacy". people are gonna try but its already looking like it wont be permanent. heck the one in Canada they are attempting? Pierre already said in a interview they are gonna rewrite it to remove the ID part (he said he really dislikes digital IDs) and such and change it to "better access to better parental controls and such"

honestly the past couple months made me far more aware about politics than I ever wanted!

iwasnthere said:
Probably either omnibus "a dozen popular things mixed in with the few unpopular things they actually want, take it all or leave it all" or rapid fire and hope it slips in through fatigue. Seen a few things up here in Canada work like that, but never really a popular look (Even though not unpopular enough to get the practice banned 🙄).

Arizona does not allow unrelated riders in legislation (all bills must be “single issue”). They’d have to bundle it with other reforms that will just as likely be less popular. The only thing they can do is pray for a supermajority and/or a friendly executive to pull this stunt again.

Just look at the fights over the state budget the last couple of years and the massive mental gymnastics the legislature attempted to somehow tie unrelated riders on the slimmest connection they could find.

Correction: While the single-subject rule technically exists, it has only been enforced once in recent history that I can find right now and that was over a spending bill with a fuckton of COVID-denial crap that was just a complete mess and very blatantly a violation of the rule.

Updated

binaryhedgehog said:
Arizona does not allow unrelated riders in legislation (all bills must be “single issue”). They’d have to bundle it with other reforms that will just as likely be less popular. The only thing they can do is pray for a supermajority and/or a friendly executive to pull this stunt again.

Just look at the fights over the state budget the last couple of years and the massive mental gymnastics the legislature attempted to somehow tie unrelated riders on the slimmest connection they could find.

Correction: While the single-subject rule technically exists, it has only been enforced once in recent history that I can find right now and that was over a spending bill with a fuckton of COVID-denial crap that was just a complete mess and very blatantly a violation of the rule.

that is if these things arnt stopped on a federal level and federal level all unanimously doesnt like digital IDs for porn. They learned from the Ashley Madison thing giving important info to porn companies is a BAD idea. already killed a couple, attempted with Texas but they said "no u" over there so its getting sent further up. it'll take time but looks like these things are getting cleaned up and tossed.

A porn law was introduced in my state. The difference is that the very right-leaning congregation hardly acknowledged it and it never got far.

Methinks they like their pornography too much. Glad that this found no life in Arizona.

hiddenbird said:
They don't ever actually think these things out- they just come up with the most radically insane, overton window-shifting policies to "own da libz"- and then the dog catches the car, a majority of the country hates it, and now they're stuck with a bunch of angry/motivated voters on the other side while they have no actual plan/agenda.

see- dobbs

So it's like a bait for people to talk about them or something?

kathyohneke said:
well for one VPNs wont get outlawed in the western world because businesses depend on them for safety to the point that they would be completely screwed over and some of the major VPNs are lobbyists. not to mentioned VPNs are reconized as a major component to online safety now along with firewalls and antivirus so VPNs wont become illegal anytime soon no need to worry about that.

They tried to force key escrow in the 1990's... and it get annihilated. But yeah, the stupidity keeps overflowing.

casmin7~ said:
Wait, why can they do that? Surely with this bill failing nothing can come of it now for at least half a decade or so or more?

Line items: Because FYTY, haha

flaminhotcheatoes said:
Unfortunately just like world peace, that might be impossible; like rest of the world, America had many people of that type for years and years and we will still have them now and in the future. I agree that the United States isn't currently "united" as we thought, making it quite ironic namewise but the best option is to let it ride out until November, vote for the right person and hope for the best depending on the results and the outcome of Project 2025.

The unity paradox. If everyone was the same, then they'd not really be so much united as forced into compliance.

kathyohneke said:
Looking it up lot of lawsuits are already being thrown about basically saying the invasion of privacy of one of these IDs and the blocking of porn itself is unconstitutional. Federal judges already killed some of these laws set in place (forget exactly where) Texas one should be killed by now on a federal level but the 5th Circuit basically went "no u" but its being pushed even further up the chain. Its gonna take a while but the general consensus is "government IDs for porn is unsafe and unconstitutional and we need to find a better way to protect minors without invading and endangering adults privacy". people are gonna try but its already looking like it wont be permanent. heck the one in Canada they are attempting? Pierre already said in a interview they are gonna rewrite it to remove the ID part (he said he really dislikes digital IDs) and such and change it to "better access to better parental controls and such"

honestly the past couple months made me far more aware about politics than I ever wanted!

Hmm, something that actually would be helpful is the opposite: You have a way to make sure NO adults are able to interact on a service.

BTW: We should probably steer clear of presidential election and stay on topic about the censorship bills? Meh, that ship's done sailed, nvm.

Updated

kathyohneke said:
its already been vetoed. :)

So we’ve won this battle, but the war against shit like this isn’t over yet, and it will probably never be until pornography isn’t so taboo, which could take decades if not centuries.
Until then we need to Normalize and protect sites like these

I guess I just want to put my two cents in here, at least to get the discussion going:

Even if this veto survives, this is a clear warning to E621 (and by extentsion, us) that works needs to start on a contingency plan here, because I think it's obvious that they're going to try again with this down the road.

What that plan looks like (updating the site, moving the servers to another state), I don't know. But we've just been given an advance weather report here, and it would be foolish to not start battening down the hatches for a possible storm.

alex_kl5 said:
I guess I just want to put my two cents in here, at least to get the discussion going:

Even if this veto survives, this is a clear warning to E621 (and by extentsion, us) that works needs to start on a contingency plan here, because I think it's obvious that they're going to try again with this down the road.

What that plan looks like (updating the site, moving the servers to another state), I don't know. But we've just been given an advance weather report here, and it would be foolish to not start battening down the hatches for a possible storm.

There's the obvious 'solutions' with advantages and disadvantages, but we'll have to see. The hilarious solution of just having (unofficial) torrents of older favorites is already being done, but doesn't help with general access to site features in general. I wonder if it might make sense to divorce the metadata from the content. Like, could you make a site that just has everything BUT the images? I'm thinking like e962 but where you can get the NSFW content from a separate host. Apparently, search engines are exempt from most such laws (because otherwise Google would toss a few billion dollars at the problem).

We had the same issue with E-H where people were worried that most everything would be lost. There are a few that host mirrors (50+ TB) on their own HDDs in case of fire, so even if it goes offline, there's still a historical archive. TBF, that site is infamous so not spelling out the name.

dba_afish said:
there pretty much aren't any around at this point, e6 is the only furry website that serves as wide of a selection of content. every other website restricts what type of content is allowed more than we do. and there are certainly no websites that are as well-maintained as we are.

that is to say, e6 needs to be protected at all costs.

Every alternative to e6 imposes draconian and often arbitrary rules. Sometimes this is because certain countries imposes laws restricting fictional content, other times it seems entirely random.

FA prohibits all cub and loli content because they are concerned it may be "harmful" to view. Meanwhile they host gore, death, and other extreme fetishes while their website doesn't have a blacklist feature. Inkbunny doesn't allow any humans in artwork. e6 really is the only place where you can find any content you like, block what you don't like, and have everything curated.

Good that this shit got vetoed. Would have set a horrible precedent for government overreach for the future of the internet, aside from making people publicly ID for wank material.

So given this whole situation in Arizona is resolved, I think we can conclude this topic, yeah?

votp said:
So given this whole situation in Arizona is resolved, I think we can conclude this topic, yeah?

As much as I can express my gratitude for Arizona, I can't say that I'm really lucky from where I live. I kept tracked of my state bill HB164 and I now discovered that it's 75% complete. While I'm aware that there's a chance that this will get challenged like all the other bills in other states, I should probably go ahead and let the cat out of the bag. I live in the same state that gained a lot of attention for passing the IVF bill, so there's a chance that this will pass uncontested.

Which means that I will have to consider getting a free VPN.

Right now I'm using Firefox and I know that they have their own VPN, but I don't know if it's something that I need to pay for or not.

So are there any free/trustworthy VPNs out there that I can use if this goes into affect?

literally i completely agree with hobbs decision to veto, the GOP's only goal as of now appears to be turning the USA into a dictatorship with no freedom of expression. Sure we can all agree E6 has some.......strange content. But at the end of the day doing a blanket ban on porn sites (effectively a ban as NOBODY is goin to do age verification because who trusts a porn site with their gov data?) is just not effective. People will find a way, VPN sales went insane in the sales that did do this bill, and the GOP got angry about it.

swear man.....what happened to politics in the last 12 years

oh yeah, you know what happened

cardboard_boxers said:
Every alternative to e6 imposes draconian and often arbitrary rules. Sometimes this is because certain countries imposes laws restricting fictional content, other times it seems entirely random.

FA prohibits all cub and loli content because they are concerned it may be "harmful" to view. Meanwhile they host gore, death, and other extreme fetishes while their website doesn't have a blacklist feature. Inkbunny doesn't allow any humans in artwork. e6 really is the only place where you can find any content you like, block what you don't like, and have everything curated.

FA and Inkbunny don't even count as potential replacements because they aren't boorus... The main benefit of a booru being that anyone can upload and tag artwork, even if they don't own it

Come to think of it, is NC the only state as we far as we know where E621 had to make a decision on blocking access? You would think with all these other states, especially Texas, they would be singled out in some capacity. Plus, I checked out the previous news logs to see if anything similar happened.

That could change obviously, but I imagine that particular prospect working in our favor.

That said, this is another example of the fundamental flaw surrounding the concept of the bill. If most of these sites can slip through the cracks without having anything to bypass it whatsoever, then this whole entire thing is completely ineffective.

smiledwarf said:
literally i completely agree with hobbs decision to veto, the GOP's only goal as of now appears to be turning the USA into a dictatorship with no freedom of expression. Sure we can all agree E6 has some.......strange content. But at the end of the day doing a blanket ban on porn sites (effectively a ban as NOBODY is goin to do age verification because who trusts a porn site with their gov data?) is just not effective. People will find a way, VPN sales went insane in the sales that did do this bill, and the GOP got angry about it.

swear man.....what happened to politics in the last 12 years

oh yeah, you know what happened

It goes further back then 2012.
It goes further back then 2008.
2001.
1992.
1980.
1975.

The core tenet of Leo Strauss' political theory is that "The Threat" does not have to be genuine. The town just has to be rallied to support it's sheriff, who is enough like a lawyer, he can work the folk (for their own good) against whatever will make them feel safe and grateful, once he guns down whatever he said was coming to get them.

I used to think it was not proper at all to imply a connection between neo-conservatives and national socialism, until the mechanism was explained to me.

Something does not have to be a threat, you simply have to accept it is coming for you and will kill you and will eat you, unless you fully love and fully embrace your savior, who you must never question, and is basically a crossover fanfic of Gunsmoke & Perry Mason that was written by a delusional college professor.

The Democrats use it just as much now as the Republicans btw.