Strap in folks as I have found another big tag fix project that needs attention. I didn't want to post this in the "Tagging Projects" thread due to its size and I feel like giving its own thread will bring more attention to it.

One acronym: MLP (No, don't leave!) We know that they are ponies, and some are unicorns, winged unicorns, and pegasi (pegasuses?). Pony implies horse but the others should not be tagged horse since they're mythical creatures (same logic behind why dragons aren't reptiles). An image with a solo winged_unicorn, unicorn, or pegasus should not be tagged with horse.

That said, many mlp characters have been mistagged as horses when many of them aren't.

Goal: Remove the horse tag from images that contain winged_unicorns/unicorns/pegasus and fix ALL the images! post #183923

This will take a while (maybe 5 to 6) and any help is appreciated (Note that the more help I have, the faster it will get fixed). But if you don't want to help then that's cool :I

Don't be discouraged by the size of the fix. If I can fix all the tagme images, then this should be a loaf of bread.

Here are the links:
Winged_unicorn (FIXED)
Unicorn (FIXED)
Pegasus (FIXED)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but then we will have to remove pony too right ?

Oh and I'm in.

Edit:

thatoneclarinetist said:
When TheHuskyK9 see's bad or stupid tagging...

You posted a dead link -.- .

Jatix said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but then we will have to remove pony too right ?

Oh and I'm in.

Yes sir

TheHuskyK9 said:
Yes sir

Great then I'll be starting with the Pegasi

I'll hit the winged unicorns!

post #352706

But first I'll go fix my TA's

Edit: Do these still keep the equine tag?

Edit 2: What about changelings?

Xch3l said:
Edit: Do these still keep the equine tag?

Yes, they're still equines but not horses/ponies

Xch3l said:
Edit 2: What about changelings?

This applies to them too

I guess i'll be aware and change them if I see any...

TheHuskyK9 said:
Yes, they're still equines but not horses/ponies

Got it!

This applies to them too

Sweet! I'll hit them too!

Jatix said:
Correct me if I'm wrong, but then we will have to remove pony too right ?

Oh and I'm in.

Edit: You posted a dead link -.- .

I was referring to this as the refrerance with his tagging face

post #155823

but I must have cut something off...

For people working on this, be careful since some of these images shouldn't even be tagged unicorn or pegasus to begin with. TWYS says that if you can't see wings or a horn, they're just a pony and there's a lot of violations I can see just by clicking those links.

It won't be as easy as just removing pony from all these posts, because some should actually be tagged pony and instead unicorn, pegasus, wings and horn will need removal.

Admin powers activate! Form of....an admin!

All of those should still have the horse tag.
A winged horse, aka pegasus, is still a horse, at least partly.
Since we tag hybrids with all relevant species then a creature that is horse + something still gets the horse tag.

Halite said:
All of those should still have the horse tag.
A winged horse, aka pegasus, is still a horse, at least partly.
Since we tag hybrids with all relevant species then a creature that is horse + something still gets the horse tag.

If the creature is legitimately a hybrid, then it should be tagged with the two parts that made it. If it is its own species that resembles another species, it should not be tagged as that other species- even if they were originally an offshoot of a larger species branch. Such is the case with pegasi and unicorns.

123easy said:
If the creature is legitimately a hybrid, then it should be tagged with the two parts that made it. If it is its own species that resembles another species, it should not be tagged as that other species- even if they were originally an offshoot of a larger species branch. Such is the case with pegasi and unicorns.

A pegasus is specifically a horse with wings, not tagging it as a horse is absurd.
Unicorns are a bit more complicated, since they aren't all horse-like mythologically speaking, but if it is the horse-like version, then it certainly ought to be tagged with horse as well.

Both get the equine tag, but pegasi shouldn't be tagged as horses and vice versa.

For the reasons already mentioned, and because that'd make it impossible to search for (fe.) horse x pegasus pairings.

Halite said:
A pegasus is specifically a horse with wings, not tagging it as a horse is absurd.
Unicorns are a bit more complicated, since they aren't all horse-like mythologically speaking, but if it is the horse-like version, then it certainly ought to be tagged with horse as well.

It's certainly an equine, but it is not a horse any more than a unicorn or centaur is.

123easy said:
It's certainly an equine, but it is not a horse any more than a unicorn or centaur is.

Centaur gets a horse tag.
Pegasus is a horse, it is by definition and lore, a horse.

Halite said:
Centaur gets a horse tag.

No, it does not. Centaur gets the equine tag.
They're often mistagged with horse, but that's just about as bad as tagging mermaids as fish.

Genjar said:
No, it does not. Centaur gets the equine tag.
They're often mistagged with horse, but that's just about as bad as tagging mermaids as fish.

So it doesn't get a human tag then?
Same thing.

Halite said:
So it doesn't get a human tag then?

Yep, looks like that implication got accepted recently.
I would've been against it, but missed the discussion. Must've been busy arguing about other tags. Ah well.

Never mind then, I guess that's the tagging policy now. Centaurs are humans and horses, mermaids are humans and fish, pegasi are horses, etc.

Halite said:
All of those should still have the horse tag.
A winged horse, aka pegasus, is still a horse, at least partly.
Since we tag hybrids with all relevant species then a creature that is horse + something still gets the horse tag.

No they shouldn't. They are all types of equines but they're not all horses except for pony because it is a smaller horse (that's why pony implies horse). If a new user wants to search up a regular horse and ends up with all these pegasi and unicorns everywhere, it would look bad on our part (especially since we're known for our good tagging system). A horse is basically a four-legged creature with hooves that neighs. Put a horn on that horse and it's no longer a horse, it's a unicorn. Add wings on a horse and it's no longer a horse, it's a pegasus. Add both horn and wings to a horse and it's no longer a horse, it's a winged unicorn. They may resemble a horse but that doesn't mean that they are horses.

Genjar said:
Yep, looks like that implication got accepted recently.
I would've been against it, but missed the discussion. Must've been busy arguing about other tags. Ah well.

Never mind then, I guess that's the tagging policy now. Centaurs are humans and horses, mermaids are humans and fish, pegasi are horses, etc.

Centaurs are the exception as they are human/horse hybrids. That doesn't mean that centaurs are themselves horses- That's what the hybrid tag is used to illustrate, which is the point I was getting at.

So, if we had a half horse, half bird hybrid, we'd tag that as horse, and bird.
But a Pegasus we don't tag as horse.
This doesn't seem contradictory to anyone else?

Halite said:
So, if we had a half horse, half bird hybrid, we'd tag that as horse, and bird.
But a Pegasus we don't tag as horse.
This doesn't seem contradictory to anyone else?

We are talking about mythical creatures, not random hybrids. If anything, how is a unicorn a hybrid? What is it mixed with? Same with pegasi and winged unicorns, what are they mixed with? Just because it has wings doesn't mean that it's half bird, many creatures have wings. The mentioning of hybrids should be irrelevant in this convo.

TheHuskyK9 said:
We are talking about mythical creatures, not random hybrids. If anything, how is a unicorn a hybrid? What is it mixed with? Same with pegasi and winged unicorns, what are they mixed with? Just because it has wings doesn't mean that it's half bird, many creatures have wings. The mentioning of hybrids should be irrelevant in this convo.

Let's talk about high breeds!

TheHuskyK9 said:
We are talking about mythical creatures, not random hybrids. If anything, how is a unicorn a hybrid? What is it mixed with? Same with pegasi and winged unicorns, what are they mixed with? Just because it has wings doesn't mean that it's half bird, many creatures have wings. The mentioning of hybrids should be irrelevant in this convo.

Except it's clearly part horse.

See the bigger reason why I am not against this is that this is the only way o accurately search for horse on pony action.

I consider pegasuses and unicorns to be horses. A horse with a horn is a unicorn, a horse with wings is a pegasus, by definition (like literally the definition for pegasus is winged horse and the definition for unicorn is creature resembling a horse with a horn)

That aside though I don't think we should tag them as they are the only thing separating ponies from horses and other similar creatures that would be impossible to distinguish otherwise

Halite said:
So, if we had a half horse, half bird hybrid, we'd tag that as horse, and bird.
But a Pegasus we don't tag as horse.
This doesn't seem contradictory to anyone else?

Except Pegasus was not half bird, he was a semi-divine being born of Medusa and Poseidon, of which the latter was a god directly and the former a divine being through heritage with Pontus. So, ipso facto, no, he's not a hybrid. Unicorns are the same, as though they have evolved through legend retelling to become equine, not only were they in fact caprine in origin when they were first detailed, but they never originated as a species of horse, but as a completely separate beast that shared only some minor physical characteristics with it- It even was savage and ate meat, for crying out loud. Even if we take the medieval era refurbishing of the myth, they are still a magical beast that merely resembles a horse, but is not actually one.

Rainbow_Dash said:
See the bigger reason why I am not against this is that this is the only way o accurately search for horse on pony action.

I consider pegasuses and unicorns to be horses. A horse with a horn is a unicorn, a horse with wings is a pegasus, by definition (like literally the definition for pegasus is winged horse and the definition for unicorn is creature resembling a horse with a horn)

That aside though I don't think we should tag them as they are the only thing separating ponies from horses and other similar creatures that would be impossible to distinguish otherwise

Actually, the literal definition for pegasus is rooted in the word pēgē, which translates to 'spring'; It was from him that the Hippocrene (A stream on the mountain of the muses) began to flow, as the story goes; Further, it was said that every time his hooves struck the earth, a new spring would leap forth from the earth. After retiring from service with Bellerophon, he moved on to serving as Zeus' steed, particularily in the task of carrying his lightning bolts for him, until the day he was turned into a constellation.

Additionally, the etymology for unicorn is in its name, much as with the unicycle- They share the same root word 'unus', meaning one, and it shares the later part, 'cornu', with the cornucopia- meaning horn.

Certainly a layperson when describing one (and this goes for the pegasus as well) can easily convey the idea of a unicorn or pegasus by stating "horse with wings" or "horse with a horn on its forehead", but this is only the shallowest of descriptions that doesn't convey the truth of these mythical beasts.

Rainbow_Dash said:
That aside though I don't think we should tag them as they are the only thing separating ponies from horses and other similar creatures that would be impossible to distinguish otherwise

Thank you.
From the search viewpoint, using too many species tags seems to be counterproductive. For instance, now that centaurs are implicated to humans, I have no idea how to search for centaur x human images.

Look everybody: ponies, unicorns, and pegasi are equine. But, they are sub-species of horses, so why not tag them as such? Or hey, maybe just equine. Or, just tag equine automatically for the tags Horse, Unicorn, Pegasi, Pony, Colt, Filly, Mare, Stallion, or othere horse-related tags?

AKBAR_THE_CORNCOB said:
Look everybody: ponies, unicorns, and pegasi are equine. But, they are sub-species of horses, so why not tag them as such? Or hey, maybe just equine. Or, just tag equine automatically for the tags Horse, Unicorn, Pegasi, Pony, Colt, Filly, Mare, Stallion, or othere horse-related tags?

They can't be subspecies of a subspecies. A horse is a type of equine, a unicorn, pegasus, and winged unicorn are types of equines. Unicorns, pegasi, and winged unicorns are not horses. They may look like one but they are not

TheHuskyK9 said:
They can't be subspecies of a subspecies. A horse is a type of equine, a unicorn, pegasus, and winged unicorn are types of equines. Unicorns, pegasi, and winged unicorns are not horses. They may look like one but they are not

Equine is the family, horse is the species, they can certainly be a subspecies of a species.
A pegasus is a horse.

Halite said:
Equine is the family, horse is the species, they can certainly be a subspecies of a species.
A pegasus is a horse.

A pegasus is not a horse

TheHuskyK9 said:
A pegasus is not a horse

If you search for "define pegasus" the top 5 results say "winged horse".
That's a horse.

Halite said:
If you search for "define pegasus" the top 5 results say "winged horse".
That's a horse.

Look up our rules on TWYS and you'll find that a pegasus is not a horse

TheHuskyK9 said:
Look up our rules on TWYS and you'll find that a pegasus is not a horse

TWYS has always had a moderate exemption to hybrid species tags.
There's no reason that should be different with something that is part horse with wings added.

TheHuskyK9 said:
A pegasus is not a horse

........ WHAT!? But, but... its a looks like a horse just with wings....

*sigh*
The whole point of having tags is to make things easier to find. Tagging pegasus as horse makes it more difficult, therefore it's not a good idea.

There's already a valid species tag for pegasi, and that's pegasus. If someone wants to see both pegasi and horses in the same search, they can either search for both tags or search for equine.

Genjar said:
Thank you.
From the search viewpoint, using too many species tags seems to be counterproductive. For instance, now that centaurs are implicated to humans, I have no idea how to search for centaur x human images.

Honestly, they breed true even when crossbred according to myth, so I don't see why we can't just remove that implication; Certainly that's their origin story, but they've evolved into their own species separate but interbreedable from humanity, much like mules from donkeys and horses are acknowledged as a separate species.

Guess, remember... when it comes to tags, its function over form. The whole purpose is that someone looking for the kind of art they are into will likely know nothing about any huge debates to define what is what. If the common mythos of Pegasi is a winged horse, go with it because that's what others are going to think as well.

Even though you may be right as to the true origins of the Pegasus, it's about people finding images of a Pegasus. We're not a historical archive on Greek mythology, so we don't have to be accurate.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
Guess, remember... when it comes to tags, its function over form. The whole purpose is that someone looking for the kind of art they are into will likely know nothing about any huge debates to define what is what. If the common mythos of Pegasi is a winged horse, go with it because that's what others are going to think as well.

Even though you may be right as to the true origins of the Pegasus, it's about people finding images of a Pegasus. We're not a historical archive on Greek mythology, so we don't have to be accurate.

Hang this on your wall and reference it often. I use a simple dictionary to find my definitions even though they are not 100% accurate, they are what most people are going to search for and that's how it should be tagged. The dictionary that everyone references says a pegasus is a winged horse. Everyone will now use that information to tag them as winged horses because they are common people and not historians. Same goes for unicorns as the dictionary defies it as a horse like creature with a horn.

however

In this case, I do not feel we should tag pegasuses and unicorns as horses because that eliminates the option to search for regular horses in the same post as pegasuses and unicorns. I think we should tag them as equine to have an umbrella tag and then the individual species.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
Guess, remember... when it comes to tags, its function over form. The whole purpose is that someone looking for the kind of art they are into will likely know nothing about any huge debates to define what is what. If the common mythos of Pegasi is a winged horse, go with it because that's what others are going to think as well.

Even though you may be right as to the true origins of the Pegasus, it's about people finding images of a Pegasus. We're not a historical archive on Greek mythology, so we don't have to be accurate.

But there's a problem with just leaving it as it is. As I already stated, when users search for 'horse', they are going to get a bunch of pegasi, unicorns, and winged unicorns aka not what they wanted. This will fix that problem and avoid confusion.

EDFDarkAngel1 said:
Guess, remember... when it comes to tags, its function over form. The whole purpose is that someone looking for the kind of art they are into will likely know nothing about any huge debates to define what is what. If the common mythos of Pegasi is a winged horse, go with it because that's what others are going to think as well.

Even though you may be right as to the true origins of the Pegasus, it's about people finding images of a Pegasus. We're not a historical archive on Greek mythology, so we don't have to be accurate.

And if they want to find images of a pegasus, they'll search pegasus, not horse. Yes, they are horse-LIKE creatures, but they are not horses. This is why they get the tag equine.

I don't want to have to search horse -pegasus -unicorn -centaur -winged_unicorn every time I want to see just a horse.

With all those, I can't even search for solo females because I hit the tag limit otherwise.

Dave's advice is good for most tags, but this one has an exception because it covers multiple creatures that would be otherwise indistinguishable from typing horse

Any input from my statement up there?

Quick question. Should a "mammal" tag be added to a post if it's a winged_unicorn, unicorn, or Pegasus?

Never mind. Someone's already doing it.

Rainbow_Dash said:
Dave's advice is good for most tags, but this one has an exception because it covers multiple creatures that would be otherwise indistinguishable from typing horse

Any input from my statement up there?

We ALREADY use Equine as the umbrella tag, I honestly don't see why this is still a topic to discuss when that's exactly how it should be done, not just because "winged horse is how pegasus are defined but we need to keep them separate" but because they aren't winged horses but they are equines. Bleh.

Killersweet said:
Quick question. Should a "mammal" tag be added to a post if it's a winged_unicorn, unicorn, or Pegasus?

It gets added automatically, because all of those are implicated to equine, which in turn is implicated to mammal.

It's usually not necessary to add either of those two manually. You can just tag the base species and let the implications do the rest of the work. It saves some time while tagging.

Genjar said:
It gets added automatically, because all of those are implicated to equine, which in turn is implicated to mammal.

It's usually not necessary to add either of those two manually. You can just tag the base species and let the implications do the rest of the work. It saves some time while tagging.

Oooooh...that's convenient. I'm still new at this. Thanks for pointing that out for me though.

Saffron said:
I don't want to have to search horse -pegasus -unicorn -centaur -winged_unicorn every time I want to see just a horse.

With all those, I can't even search for solo females because I hit the tag limit otherwise.

They ought to have a hybrid tag that you could use instead.
Or a "mythological_animal" tag.

123easy said:
We ALREADY use Equine as the umbrella tag, I honestly don't see why this is still a topic to discuss when that's exactly how it should be done, not just because "winged horse is how pegasus are defined but we need to keep them separate" but because they aren't winged horses but they are equines. Bleh.

Except equine covers a lot more than just horses, and mythological creatures that are part horse.
Using the equine tag instead has as valid a problem because of that.

Halite said:
They ought to have a hybrid tag that you could use instead.
Or a "mythological_animal" tag.

Dude no. Why do we need to create a whole new tag for something that is easily fixable? Your making things more complicated than it should be.

Halite said:
Except equine covers a lot more than just horses, and mythological creatures that are part horse.
Using the equine tag instead has as valid a problem because of that.

You are not understanding why those "mythical creatures" are not horses in terms of TWYS.

TheHuskyK9 said:
Dude no. Why do we need to create a whole new tag for something that is easily fixable? Your making things more complicated than it should be.

You are not understanding why those "mythical creatures" are not horses in terms of TWYS.

TWYS does not apply strictly when hybrid species tags are concerned.
It is one of the few exceptions to TWYS.
The question at hand is if a part horse mytholgical creature is considered a hybrid and is therefor exempt.
Personally I don't see why it shouldn't be, since they're clearly part horse, even mostly horse.

TheHuskyK9 said:

You are not understanding why those "mythical creatures" are not horses in terms of TWYS.

post #449827

I see a horse. With wings.

Why should we not tag it with horse?

What about this?

post #120235

:3

Halite said:
TWYS does not apply strictly when hybrid species tags are concerned.
It is one of the few exceptions to TWYS.
The question at hand is if a part horse mytholgical creature is considered a hybrid and is therefor exempt.
Personally I don't see why it shouldn't be, since they're clearly part horse, even mostly horse.

They aren't hybrids, and they are not horses. I'm tired of repeating myself so believe what you what to believe, the tags are still getting fixed nonetheless

SirAntagonist said:
post #449827

I see a horse. With wings.

Why should we not tag it with horse?

A horse doesn't have wings, that's what defines a horse. What you see is a pegasus, not the same thing

TheHuskyK9 said:
A horse doesn't have wings, that's what defines a horse. What you see is a pegasus, not the same thing

post #428945

Wolfs don't have wings either. But we still tag this with wolf because it's CLEARLY a wolf that just has wings.

SirAntagonist said:
post #428945

Wolfs don't have wings either. But we still tag this with wolf because it's CLEARLY a wolf that just has wings.

A wolf with wings is not a mythical creature like a pegasus. A wolf with wings is just a wolf with wings

TheHuskyK9 said:
A wolf with wings is not a mythical creature like a pegasus. A wolf with wings is just a wolf with wings

Must've had red bull. For what it's worth, I classify pegassi(?) as equines, but not horses. When my neighbors horse sprouts wings, I'll consider changing my stance.

TheHuskyK9 said:
A wolf with wings is not a mythical creature like a pegasus. A wolf with wings is just a wolf with wings

So, just because a Pegasus is an established mythological character, it is automatically it's own species, and not at all a horse, even though it's just a horse with wings.

Does that mean we should remove the bull tag from all the Minotaurs? or the Lion tag from the gryphons?

SirAntagonist said:
So, just because a Pegasus is an established mythological character, it is automatically it's own species, and not at all a horse, even though it's just a horse with wings.

Does that mean we should remove the bull tag from all the Minotaurs? or the Lion tag from the gryphons?

Frankly I think so. You wouldn't tag a platypus with duck. What is the difference between a species and a myth creature but the existence of the creature in reality?

SirAntagonist said:
So, just because a Pegasus is an established mythological character, it is automatically it's own species, and not at all a horse, even though it's just a horse with wings.

It's not a horse with wings, it's a type of equine. A horse doesn't have wings, a horse can't fly, a horse is not mythical.

Does that mean we should remove the bull tag from all the Minotaurs? or the Lion tag from the gryphons?

Actually no because we know that both are hybrids of something.
Human + Bull = Minotaur
Eagle + Lion = Gryphon
Horse + ??? = Pegasus? Does not compute

Hybrids are a mixture between species. We don't know where a unicorn got its horn from so it's not a hybrid but a species of equine. Same with pegasi and winged unicorns

anon_X said:
What is the difference between a species and a myth creature but the existence of the creature in reality?

...The fact that a mythological creature isn't real
That's terrible logic.

TheHuskyK9 said:
It's not a horse with wings, it's a type of equine. A horse doesn't have wings, a horse can't fly, a horse is not mythical.

A wolf doesn't have wings. A wolf can't fly. An eagle doesn't have 1/2 of a lion's body.

TheHuskyK9 said:

Human + Bull = Minotaur
Eagle + Lion = Gryphon
Horse + Avian = Pegasus

Fixed that for you.

SirAntagonist said:
Fixed that for you.

Forgive me for going after the straw man, but an avian is a type of animal; a bull or lion is a specific species. Doesn't quite line up. You could basically use that logic to call a human a hybrid of a monkey and mammal.

SirAntagonist said:
A wolf doesn't have wings. A wolf can't fly. An eagle doesn't have 1/2 of a lion's body.

But guess what, a wolf with wings and a gryphon are hybrids, a pegasus is not.

SirAntagonist said:
Fixed that for you.

Actually that didn't help at all. Avian is the umbrella of many species. Hybrids are combined with specific species, not an entire class of species. Last time I checked, not all pegasi have bird-like wings either
post #433488

TheHuskyK9 said:
Last time I checked, not all pegasi have bird-like wings either
post #433488

That's a bat pony hybrid

Personally I agree with Halite and SirAntagonist in all this.

Fluttershy said:
That's a bat pony hybrid

Technically, it's a pegasus/bat hybrid. Has the equine shape with bat features and wings.

EDIT: In other news, I've finished fixing the winged unicorns. Up next, the regular unicorns

SirAntagonist said:
So, just because a Pegasus is an established mythological character, it is automatically it's own species, and not at all a horse, even though it's just a horse with wings.

Yes, precisely. It's a pegasus, and everyone knows what it is called. Tagging it as another species is counterproductive and makes it harder to search for, as I've already explained.

Does that mean we should remove the bull tag from all the Minotaurs? or the Lion tag from the gryphons?

I'd prefer that, yes. Minotaurs should be tagged as minotaur and bovine, gryphons should be tagged as gryphon and... possibly feline. But if I want to see gryphons, I search for gryphon. And if I want to see lions, I search for lion.

Wherever possible, we should try to only have one main species tag per creature. Unless it's a hybrid that doesn't have any commonly known other names.

Genjar said:
-snip-
Wherever possible, we should try to only have one main species tag per creature. Unless it's a hybrid that doesn't have any commonly known other names.

While this is a good idea for searchability, I mourn the loss of accuracy for the hybrid tag... On the other hand, it's very well known that centaurs, minotaurs, gryphons, hippogriffs and the like are all hybrid species, so why tag the components when they aren't actually there- that breaks TWYS, since we see a minotaur, not a bull and a human, for example. Bad tagging should go, and I think we've hit a sore spot that we've been sweeping under the rug for awhile.

TheHuskyK9 said:
They aren't hybrids, and they are not horses. I'm tired of repeating myself so believe what you what to believe, the tags are still getting fixed nonetheless

So are you going to fix them back if the final decision doesn't go your way then?

Halite said:
So are you going to fix them back if the final decision doesn't go your way then?

You're the only one arguing for the backasswards method.