Oh shit.....oh shit!

OK THIS IS
IT'S
OH SHIT

So.. Is she a ghost?

*ahem*
YOOOOOOOOOOO

thunderer said:
So.. Is she a ghost?

I have a sneaking suspension that old Trace reanimated her with magic to use as a servant.

Spooky, Scary, Ghosty Wolf sends shivers down your spine

So Evil Trace did go Full Metal Alchemist on someone!

I was just wrong about who he did it to

Roselyn: 454-480

Hmmm...

post #2239433

thefoxwolf1 said:
Roselyn: 454-480

Hmmm...

post #2239433

So she's been "dead" for 2 years?!

thefoxwolf1 said:
Roselyn: 454-480

Hmmm...

post #2239433

i... uh...
MAGIC!

AND ALIENS!

Roses Are Red
Violets Are Blue
I'm So Scared
And So Are You

Ok either Rose is a ghost bound to the estate or old Trace at some point learned necromancy.

But we see her interacting with Trace and the others....possibly she doesn't know she's dead/ghost.....I'm totally confused now. How does this tie in with Maren being kidnapped by the house/whatever because she looks like Saria?

That last panel nearly made my heart pop out of my chest.....Oh, but I don't have a heart. YOHOHOHOHO!

cironnu said:
But we see her interacting with Trace and the others....possibly she doesn't know she's dead/ghost.....I'm totally confused now. How does this tie in with Maren being kidnapped by the house/whatever because she looks like Saria?

That is a damn good point.
Rose as we know her was a very nice person apart from her duty.

timmah said:
Ok either Rose is a ghost bound to the estate or old Trace at some point learned necromancy.

If it was necromancy, why didn't he try to revive Saria too?
Why does he need Maren?
And what is rose?
These are the biggest questions right now.

Hiding a picture containing a dangerous secret concerning a person's unnaturally long life? Nope, nothing comes to mind at all.

Masaka...!

My guess is still that Trace "captured" Rose's spirit and she only exists as part of a magical construct inside the mansion. That's why she seems to pop up out of nowhere all the time and why she has such delicate control over everything in the mansion. It's also why she said she'd be impressed if the guards managed to remove her from the mansion.

vis-7 said:
I have a sneaking suspension that old Trace reanimated her with magic to use as a servant.

That makes sense. This was an awesome twist though! Toms story writing is top tier!

timmah said:
Ok either Rose is a ghost bound to the estate or old Trace at some point learned necromancy.

https://e621.net/posts/1970822?q=twokinds+roselyn_%28twokinds%29 I think that she is the Necromancer. In most RPG's Necromancer use Green Fire or the Magic Summoning is in green. Maybe.

coredumperror said:
So she's been "dead" for 2 years?!

Well, she keeps herself well then :D

not_that_person said:
My guess is still that Trace "captured" Rose's spirit and she only exists as part of a magical construct inside the mansion. That's why she seems to pop up out of nowhere all the time and why she has such delicate control over everything in the mansion. It's also why she said she'd be impressed if the guards managed to remove her from the mansion.

It could be that Rose is immortal to a certain extent and is alive only because the estate is keeping her that way. My guess is that her pain in Saria's death warped her nature and that she is somehow responsible for Maren's kidnapping because she may believe she can transfer Saria's soul into her body. She must really have loved Saria for this to effect her so much. Whatever happened it seems Euchre knew about it if the things he said to Rose at the beginning of the return to the Manor is any indication.

I just hope Rose can be saved. She doesn't deserve to die again after all she's been through.

oh no, OH NO, OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Holy Hell. OO.

Still I have a question: we actually know what year is actually placed the comic? because the absolute terror faces of Trace and Flora are pretty evident that Roselyn have already much years "dead", but how much is "much" actually? if we dont even know the year we can't actually wonder about Roselyn, because she might be the same case of Euchre that actually have more years than the normal keidran lifespan

Yoooooo, hold the fuck up.
Two points I wanna make here.

First, all last page, Trace himself never said Rose’s name, it was all Flora. Wasn’t until HE said it that she showed up, which illustrates just how fucking deep that slavery runs, even after death.

Second, Trace never brought Maren to the mansion before, so what’s with this talk about “finding the body?” That makes me think that it isn’t Trace that is trying to use Maren to “resurrect” Saria, but ROSE is trying to bring her back.

adarjoor said:
It could be that Rose is immortal to a certain extent and is alive only because the estate is keeping her that way. My guess is that her pain in Saria's death warped her nature and that she is somehow responsible for Maren's kidnapping because she may believe she can transfer Saria's soul into her body. She must really have loved Saria for this to effect her so much. Whatever happened it seems Euchre knew about it if the things he said to Rose at the beginning of the return to the Manor is any indication.

I just hope Rose can be saved. She doesn't deserve to die again after all she's been through.

Only started to read the comments after I posted mine lmao, I’m glad to know I’m not the only one who thinks Rose is responsible for Maren’s involvement

alphavoid777 said:

Second, Trace never brought Maren to the mansion before, so what’s with this talk about “finding the body?” That makes me think that it isn’t Trace that is trying to use Maren to “resurrect” Saria, but ROSE is trying to bring her back.

FFS THATS TRUE! I've never thinked about it until you commented it. If he wanted to resurrect her by this way it would be a lot easier for him because he's (in that momment) actually the Grand Templar and duke of Edinmire, so beign Maren the Trace's GF she would like or be curious about where exactly lives this semi all-mighty man so he would have it gifted to take her to Edinmire and revive Saria before the comic started. And spicing a bit this theory, maybe Nora was the one who erased his memory in first place, because she was the most afraid of the Trace's powers getting stronger and stronger, and his mind corruptier (?) and corruptier, so she decided to vanquish all away and start from zero, leaving him in a human territory with no danger of beign damaged suddendly before or when awaken. Yeah the masks had something between that, but its not that clear at all, maybe the masks and Nora made an armistice to stop this dreadful tyrant and remove all his memories with the hopes and dreams of not suffering sorta tyranny again.... BUUUUUT then some stone-faced friend come and just f*cked up all the efforts of the other masks (more specific, Order the white one) so instead of having Trace wandering here or there, thy whanted to kill him but he forgeted 3 things:

1) Trace was and still IS the strongest mage that humanity conceived (HUMANITY, because there are Euchre from the keidrans, and maybe Isaac but he's already dead so f*ck it)

2) He possesed Flora and no other random peasant from the city, if thy wanted to defeat him more easely, just needed to use another random human and then unleash thy true powers (obviously destroying the actual body, but it's just a random peasant, nothing is going to happen from there)

and 3) the determination of a living beign (and NOT only Undertale, i mean it in general). Actually messing with the security of his friends and his couple not only given him the strength but also the reason WHY defeating him (because there might be someone really powerful but you have no reason why try to kill it in first place)

Yeah might have wandered a lot more than i should, but there is what i think. Like, dislike, suscribe and be- oh wait, wrong social media XDD

And other thing, patching something in the point 2: if Ephemural consumed Flora to use thy powers at 100%, then actually make awaken the tyrant once and for all, and this time will not stop until the world itself get doomed by the darkness (or that would be an scenario of it, who knows?)

I suspected Trace extended her life with magic, maybe even made her immortal when he bound her magically to the mansion. But I didn't expect she was dead.

Maybe this ties into Trace trying to bring Sarah back from the dead. Maybe he bound Rose's spirit to the mansion as a test for a similar spell to bind Sarah's spirit to another vessel. Say... someone who looked like her.

Rose may have even been unaware of the full extent of what he did until he removed her restrictions. Remember she seemed momentarily overwhelmed by the sudden influx of information, including recognizing why he forbid her from that specific floor. And then that chilling comment about how she still couldn't attack him directly, but with the power over the manor she now has, arranging his death would be "trivial."

neko-taro said:
Stuff

It's stated that she's 28 currently, but the painting says she passed away at 26. Roselyn's apparently been dead for 2 years so the year should be 482.

I'm not sure how long ago Trace lost his memory relative to the story, but it could mean that he had NOTHING to do with Roselyn still being alive.

omnicidal said:
It's stated that she's 28 currently, but the painting says she passed away at 26. Roselyn's apparently been dead for 2 years so the year should be 482.

I'm not sure how long ago Trace lost his memory relative to the story, but it could mean that he had NOTHING to do with Roselyn still being alive.

People shouldn't take character ref sheets as necessarily hard fact; especially when they're old.

Tom has done retcons before. IIRC Maddie's stated she was 12, but then a semi-recent page in the comic had her reveal ("cough*retcon*cough*) that she's really 17, but looks younger and pretends to be 12 for infiltration purposes.

I think it's because of the amount of Karen/Maddie shipping artwork coming out, even from Tom himself. It made it seem less creepy since Karen was also 17.

drakkenfyre said:
People shouldn't take character ref sheets as necessarily hard fact; especially when they're old.

Tom has done retcons before. IIRC Maddie's stated she was 12, but then a semi-recent page in the comic had her reveal ("cough*retcon*cough*) that she's really 17, but looks younger and pretends to be 12 for infiltration purposes.

I think it's because of the amount of Karen/Maddie shipping artwork coming out, even from Tom himself. It made it seem less creepy since Karen was also 17.

Roselyn's ref isnt that old, at the most she'd be 29 and would have been dead for 3 years instead of 2. But even still, that ref sheet came out when Rose started Raine's training, which was a very short time ago as the comic's concerned. So Rose is still canonically 28.

This the only time we get a confirmation for the date: 482. We can use this to map out the dates of other events, and get a time scale for the comic.

neko-taro said:
FFS THATS TRUE! I've never thinked about it until you commented it. If he wanted to resurrect her by this way it would be a lot easier for him because he's (in that momment) actually the Grand Templar and duke of Edinmire, so beign Maren the Trace's GF she would like or be curious about where exactly lives this semi all-mighty man so he would have it gifted to take her to Edinmire and revive Saria before the comic started. And spicing a bit this theory, maybe Nora was the one who erased his memory in first place, because she was the most afraid of the Trace's powers getting stronger and stronger, and his mind corruptier (?) and corruptier, so she decided to vanquish all away and start from zero, leaving him in a human territory with no danger of beign damaged suddendly before or when awaken. Yeah the masks had something between that, but its not that clear at all, maybe the masks and Nora made an armistice to stop this dreadful tyrant and remove all his memories with the hopes and dreams of not suffering sorta tyranny again.... BUUUUUT then some stone-faced friend come and just f*cked up all the efforts of the other masks (more specific, Order the white one) so instead of having Trace wandering here or there, thy whanted to kill him but he forgeted 3 things:

But Nora didn't steal his memories it was the Templar he woke up to find. The guy glat out yells him he did it when he commented how weak Trace was without his memories and even taunted him as he had Trace caught in that binding spell before Trace dark magiced free and Dragon Fire'd him into ash.

cironnu said:
But we see her interacting with Trace and the others....possibly she doesn't know she's dead/ghost.....I'm totally confused now. How does this tie in with Maren being kidnapped by the house/whatever because she looks like Saria?

Saria was a ghost and full well knew it. She met with Trace, the rando guard she sent to get him, and Flora overheard them talk. She even made Trace promise never to come back because she didn't want him to go through losing her all over again. If Rose is a ghost she is very much aware and either is ok with staying and pretending she's just an old wolf or she is enchanted there for some reason. Though since Trace gave her full control of the mansion she could probably move on unless there's some bonding item keeping her there she is unaware of. Though I did notice Rose said "master" instead of "Trace" so she very well could be undead or a ghost. Old Trace could revive people at least until he messed up with Saria and went crazy.

drakkenfyre said:
People shouldn't take character ref sheets as necessarily hard fact; especially when they're old.

Tom has done retcons before. IIRC Maddie's stated she was 12, but then a semi-recent page in the comic had her reveal ("cough*retcon*cough*) that she's really 17, but looks younger and pretends to be 12 for infiltration purposes.

I think it's because of the amount of Karen/Maddie shipping artwork coming out, even from Tom himself. It made it seem less creepy since Karen was also 17.

Didn't Maddie say she was 12 to avoid getting chucked overboard? Cause her bio on the website never specified her age and just stated she takes advantage of " her child-like appearance". Right off the bat she talks down to Karen which would be weird if she wasn't at least a mid-teen. Her lying to stay onboard then later stating her age isnt a retcon especally when her bio for years stated she uses her youthful appearance to manipulate people.

werewolfwill said:
Didn't Maddie say she was 12 to avoid getting chucked overboard? Cause her bio on the website never specified her age and just stated she takes advantage of " her child-like appearance". Right off the bat she talks down to Karen which would be weird if she wasn't at least a mid-teen. Her lying to stay onboard then later stating her age isnt a retcon especally when her bio for years stated she uses her youthful appearance to manipulate people.

You could be right. I did say IIRC.

omnicidal said:
Roselyn's ref isnt that old, at the most she'd be 29 and would have been dead for 3 years instead of 2. But even still, that ref sheet came out when Rose started Raine's training,

Man, I thought it came much longer ago than that.

Guys, guys, clearly Roselyn was killed by an impostor.
And that impostor is YOSHIKAGE KIRA!!

werewolfwill said:
Didn't Maddie say she was 12 to avoid getting chucked overboard? Cause her bio on the website never specified her age and just stated she takes advantage of " her child-like appearance". Right off the bat she talks down to Karen which would be weird if she wasn't at least a mid-teen. Her lying to stay onboard then later stating her age isnt a retcon especally when her bio for years stated she uses her youthful appearance to manipulate people.

I was going to say something of similar effect but you put it better.

Also as an author myself I kind of figure if he DID list her age it doesn't have to be a retcon. Sometimes the goof up isn't in the story but in the reference.

Not too mention this makes her place in Basitin society fit better, giving her a real purpose besides just being the daughter of King Adelaide.

Which is vital in a good story so characters are not one dimensional.

yugijak said:
retcon.

drakkenfyre said:
IIRC

What's all this stuff? i didn't notice of anything ;~;

vis-7 said:
I have a sneaking suspension that old Trace reanimated her with magic to use as a servant.

I figured something similar, though I remembered how she has control over the Mansion's magical defenses, so I figured Evil Trace did some dark magic on Rose's soul and turned her into the Mansion. She manages the house cause she literally is the house now.

If Rose is actually dead, and what we've been seeing is actually either her reanimated body or something, it's just odd that NO ONE notciced anything. Euchre and Trace are pretty powerful mages, and noticed nothing. Didn't Trace actually make physical contact with her when he was apologizing for "Old Trace", and noticed nothing? I hope Tom resolves this one soon, cause it's making me nuts.

neko-taro said:
Still I have a question: we actually know what year is actually placed the comic? because the absolute terror faces of Trace and Flora are pretty evident that Roselyn have already much years "dead", but how much is "much" actually? if we dont even know the year we can't actually wonder about Roselyn, because she might be the same case of Euchre that actually have more years than the normal keidran lifespan

Rose died 3 years after Saria's death at the age of 26, since here current age is 28 so the year should be 482

cironnu said:
If Rose is actually dead, and what we've been seeing is actually either her reanimated body or something, it's just odd that NO ONE notciced anything. Euchre and Trace are pretty powerful mages, and noticed nothing. Didn't Trace actually make physical contact with her when he was apologizing for "Old Trace", and noticed nothing? I hope Tom resolves this one soon, cause it's making me nuts.

I went back and looked at every page Rose never made physical contact with anyone at all

cironnu said:
If Rose is actually dead, and what we've been seeing is actually either her reanimated body or something, it's just odd that NO ONE notciced anything. Euchre and Trace are pretty powerful mages, and noticed nothing. Didn't Trace actually make physical contact with her when he was apologizing for "Old Trace", and noticed nothing? I hope Tom resolves this one soon, cause it's making me nuts.

That may itself be testament to just how powerful Trace was at his zenith. That he could somehow create a magical simulacrum of life SO perfect that even his future self couldn't tell the difference

kegubo said:
If it was necromancy, why didn't he try to revive Saria too?
Why does he need Maren?
And what is rose?
These are the biggest questions right now.

1) Perhaps he deemed Saria "too important" to try something like Necromancy on, in case it brought her back wrong, while Rose was "expendable" in his eyes.
2) He may have planned to use Maren's body to house Saria's soul/essence, or simply to remold her into Saria 2.0
3) Some form of ghost or revenant bound to the house, like as not.

Tom did you watched Los otros? AKA Les autres? De Alejandro Amenábar
Petit coquin !

vis-7 said:
I have a sneaking suspension that old Trace reanimated her with magic to use as a servant.

Me too.