Posted under Tag Alias and Implication Suggestions
The tag alias #61964 disabled_comments -> invalid_tag has been approved.
Reason: Posts with disabled comments are intentionally hard to find.
EDIT: The tag alias disabled_comments -> invalid_tag (forum #362588) has been approved by @bitWolfy.
Updated by auto moderator
If I'm gonna vote in support of this then give me a better reason why I should vote in favor.
Be mindful that this tag could be used in the blacklist which would prove useful to remove posts so offensive they had to have their comment section disabled (which is so rare I didn't know, before your post, that this was a real feature of e6)
If we assume, hypothetically, that there are people on the website who're actively looking for these posts, what are they gonna do about them? Complain in the comment section?
The few things that could be annoying to the administrators that these folks could do would be to falsely report and flag these posts which could cost their account + I have not seen that yet or spam the forums which I have not seen yet either.
wolfmanfur said:
Be mindful that this tag could be used in the blacklist
Tags generally do not exist specifically for blacklisting.
wolfmanfur said:
what are they gonna do about? Complain?
Yes. This is the exact reason the flag doesn't have a meta search tag, and isn't included in the posts export. Rating locking for instance has ratinglocked:true, and is included in the posts export.
Even if there were some merit to blacklisting these posts, there are currently only 5 active posts with comments disabled.
The active posts:
post #3990972 post #3341785 post #3336554 post #3331589 post #2903993
wolfmanfur said:
which would prove useful to remove posts so offensive they had to have their comment section disabled
None of these are more offensive than anything else you'd find on the site.
If I recall correctly, those Martha Speaks posts had comments locked because trolls kept posting comments related to the Buffalo Tops supermarket mass shooting. The lock could probably be removed now that that moment has passed.
jfrankparnell said:
If I recall correctly, those Martha Speaks posts had comments locked because trolls kept posting comments related to the Buffalo Tops supermarket mass shooting. The lock could probably be removed now that that moment has passed.
This also brings up that most times comments are disabled, it's temporary, to let things calm down. Most things that currently have or have had their comments locked aren't anything most people wouldn't want to see.
Updated
donovan_dmc said:
Tags generally do not exist specifically for blacklisting.
Straight-up wrong : not_furry and young exist solely for blacklisting. If somebody is looking for porn of young characters they ususlly go for loli, shota, cub, baby, toddler, infant or teenager. Even if you disagree with my position on young, I don't see in what world I, or anybody else using the site, would be including 'no_furry' in their search queries.
Yes. This is the exact reason the flag doesn't have a meta search tag, and isn't included in the posts export. Rating locking for instance has ratinglocked:true, and is included in the posts export.
That's irrelevant to the point here. There is a tag dedicated to silly stuff like funny_post_number and lol_comments, I don't see how this differs in any way from either of those two.
Even if there were some merit to blacklisting these posts, there are currently only 5 active posts with comments disabled.
The active posts:
post #3990972 post #3341785 post #3336554 post #3331589 post #2903993
I have already seen the first one since I was curious why the tag you were trying to alias away had 0 post attached to it [you nuked the tag from all posts that have had it], and the first post is pretty obvious why it was locked. It is a highly political post that caused a lot of fuss in the comment section. I have no idea why those Martha posts are disabled, but JFrankParnell answered that question, and given that I agree their respective comment sections should be re-enabled.
None of these are more offensive than anything else you'd find on the site.
The first post says otherwise, and is rotten fruit to flies, the flies being the ultrapartisan leftists, liberals and conservatives who all were presumably fighting under that post.
If somebody doesn't want to see posts that attracted trolls or pundits, they are perfectly within their right to blacklist all of it and this tag would be a perfect catch-alln kind of deal.
wolfmanfur said:
Straight-up wrong : not_furry and young exist solely for blacklisting. If somebody is looking for porn of young characters they ususlly go for loli, shota, cub, baby, toddler, infant or teenager. Even if you disagree my position on young, I don't see in what world I, or anybody else using the site, would be including 'no_furry' in the query.
Who says those exist for blacklisting? What if someone wants to look for any young characters? It's a blanket tag, just as fur, tail, intersex, and all the others like it are.
wolfmanfur said:
The first post says otherwise, and is rotten fruit to flies, the flies being the ultrapartisan leftists, liberals and conservatives who all were presumably fighting under that post.If somebody doesn't want to see posts that attracted trolls or pundits, they are perfectly within their right to blacklist all of it and this tag would be a perfect catch-alln kind of deal.
There's a single "offensive" post within the disabled comments camp. There are thousands between political_cartoon, Zoophilia, Nazis, and anything else the layman might find offensive.
donovan_dmc said:
Who says those exist for blacklisting? What if someone wants to look for any young characters? It's a blanket tag, just as fur, tail, intersex, and all the others like it are.
You are positing this question on a furry site where half the users hate seeing humans in art. On that same note, blanket tags are so useless I never use them and I do not think anybody else does. It is surprising in and of itself that fur wasn't made invalid like skin did.
donovan_dmc said:
There's a single "offensive" post within the disabled comments camp. There are thousands between political_cartoon, Zoophilia, Nazis, and anything else the layman might find offensive.
Probably because those other posts weren't offensive enough and flamewarring enough to have their comment section stripped away.
This particular post has the best recipe for disaster:
[*] Implying the annoying libertarians are Nazis
[*] A very aggressive tone in the text and characters
The other posts with more downvotes would never contribute to nearly as extensive flamewars and arguments as this.
Updated
This sort of information should instead be handled with a metatag instead of just having a tag that people have to actually add to images manually and actually remember to remove it if the lock gets removed. Adding a comment_disabled:true metatag would be quite trivial so I'm going to assume that the lack of the metatag is a sign that it's not searchable on purpose and we shouldn't be bypassing that by making a tag for it.
I don't really believe in the blacklist argument, it's such a tiny number of posts that are currently locked and the only trend between any of them right now is a cartoon dog. People looking to avoid controversial topics would be much better off blacklisting tags like politics, racism, whatever else could probably be offensive. Pair this with something like score:<40 if you want to only filter the really unpopular opinions.
faucet said:
This sort of information should instead be handled with a metatag instead of just having a tag that people have to actually add to images manually and actually remember to remove it if the lock gets removed. Adding a comment_disabled:true metatag would be quite trivial so I'm going to assume that the lack of the metatag is a sign that it's not searchable on purpose and we shouldn't be bypassing that by making a tag for it.I don't really believe in the blacklist argument, it's such a tiny number of posts that are currently locked and the only trend between any of them right now is a cartoon dog. People looking to avoid controversial topics would be much better off blacklisting tags like politics, racism, whatever else could probably be offensive. Pair this with something like score:<40 if you want to only filter the really unpopular opinions.
I do agree with that being a metatag. It would be better than to individually tag images, but at the same time, there are the tags hi_res and long_playtime that exist simultaneously with their respective metatag. So, is this a good argument?
if the admins don't want anybody to search a set of posts for any given reason then it needs to be said because aliasing away a tag for no reason and especially a tag that can potentially be useful is by all means egregious. This has hapened before.
The point was that if there are more comment sections closed down because they attract trolls/sycophants then the post linked to these comment sections might have something to do with it. This tag would weed out this content without having to blanket blacklist politics or racism.
Personally speaking, I would use it if more posts are added to it because political content don't bother me, racist content don't bother me either, any of the lgbt flags don't bother me (I'm probably gay anyway), the Nazi swastika don't bother me either again, but this one post that had its comment section disabled actually bothers me (I don't really care about Martha and I still hope to see this decision to disable that comment section reversed).
faucet said:
the lack of the metatag is a sign that it's not searchable on purpose and we shouldn't be bypassing that by making a tag for it.
Kira has said specifically that it isn't in the posts export because, and I quote "I don't see value in it other than inviting people to search for drama.". This presumably goes the same way for a metatag.
You can read the message here.
In the 11 months that this feature has existed, 15 posts total have had their comments disabled. Those posts, and my best guess of what happened there:
post #2903993 (martha speaks)
post #3337200 (deleted) (martha speaks)
post #3336554 (martha speaks)
post #2410202 (deleted) (martha speaks)
post #3331589 (martha speaks)
post #3341785 (martha speaks)
post #3343765 (deleted) (martha speaks)
post #3504344 (deleted) (hate? nft?)
post #3628698 (deleted) (hate? politics?)
post #3628689 (deleted) (nazis?)
post #3433290 (deleted, unlocked) (style? (https://inkbunny.net/s/2758870))
post #3461983 (deleted, unlocked, replaced: post #3653705) (style?)
post #3508821 (unlocked) (style?)
post #3767346 (deleted, unlocked, replaced: post #3737072) (shitshow of a comments section, nothing to do with the post)
post #3990972 (political shit)
Of these, 4 have presumably had to do with the post containing "offensive" content. 3/4 of them are deleted. Blacklisting this tag would hide ONE post. Keep in mind this is over the span of a year, so that's hardly going to increase.
donovan_dmc said:
Kira has said specifically that it isn't in the posts export because, and I quote "I don't see value in it other than inviting people to search for drama.". This presumably goes the same way for a metatag.
You can read the message here.In the 11 months that this feature has existed, 15 posts total have had their comments disabled. Those posts, and my best guess of what happened there:
post #2903993 (martha speaks)
post #3337200 (deleted) (martha speaks)
post #3336554 (martha speaks)
post #2410202 (deleted) (martha speaks)
post #3331589 (martha speaks)
post #3341785 (martha speaks)
post #3343765 (deleted) (martha speaks)
post #3504344 (deleted) (hate? nft?)
post #3628698 (deleted) (hate? politics?)
post #3628689 (deleted) (nazis?)
post #3433290 (deleted, unlocked) (style? (https://inkbunny.net/s/2758870))
post #3461983 (deleted, unlocked, replaced: post #3653705) (style?)
post #3508821 (unlocked) (style?)
post #3767346 (deleted, unlocked, replaced: post #3737072) (shitshow of a comments section, nothing to do with the post)
post #3990972 (political shit)Of these, 4 have presumably had to do with the post containing "offensive" content. 3/4 of them are deleted. Blacklisting this tag would hide ONE post. Keep in mind this is over the span of a year, so that's hardly going to increase.
That seems fair, all right fine.
If two thirds of all posts that ever got this tag inevitably get removed then it ain't ever gonna go anywhere; at this pace anyway.
wolfmanfur said:
If I'm gonna vote in support of this then give me a better reason why I should vote in favor.
Be mindful that this tag could be used in the blacklist which would prove useful to remove posts so offensive they had to have their comment section disabled (which is so rare I didn't know, before your post, that this was a real feature of e6)If we assume, hypothetically, that there are people on the website who're actively looking for these posts, what are they gonna do about them? Complain in the comment section?
The few things that could be annoying to the administrators that these folks could do would be to falsely report and flag these posts which could cost their account + I have not seen that yet or spam the forums which I have not seen yet either.
Only reason I voted against it, actually. I'll have to review other replies but seems the vote's going for instead of against.
alphamule said:
Only reason I voted against it, actually. I'll have to review other replies but seems the vote's going for instead of against.
I don't see how there's an validity to the blacklisting argument when there is a single "offensive" post with disabled comments, and it was added 3 days ago. The other hateful posts that were locked were deleted for not meeting the uploading guidelines for one reason or another.
donovan_dmc said:
I don't see how there's an validity to the blacklisting argument when there is a single "offensive" post with disabled comments, and it was added 3 days ago. The other hateful posts that were locked were deleted for not meeting the uploading guidelines for one reason or another.
One could say the same about trying to prevent people finding the one surviving post. XD
donovan_dmc said:
Kira has said specifically that it isn't in the posts export because, and I quote "I don't see value in it other than inviting people to search for drama.". This presumably goes the same way for a metatag.
You can read the message here.In the 11 months that this feature has existed, 15 posts total have had their comments disabled. Those posts, and my best guess of what happened there:
post #2903993 (martha speaks)
post #3337200 (deleted) (martha speaks)
post #3336554 (martha speaks)
post #2410202 (deleted) (martha speaks)
post #3331589 (martha speaks)
post #3341785 (martha speaks)
post #3343765 (deleted) (martha speaks)
post #3504344 (deleted) (hate? nft?)
post #3628698 (deleted) (hate? politics?)
post #3628689 (deleted) (nazis?)
post #3433290 (deleted, unlocked) (style? (https://inkbunny.net/s/2758870))
post #3461983 (deleted, unlocked, replaced: post #3653705) (style?)
post #3508821 (unlocked) (style?)
post #3767346 (deleted, unlocked, replaced: post #3737072) (shitshow of a comments section, nothing to do with the post)
post #3990972 (political shit)Of these, 4 have presumably had to do with the post containing "offensive" content. 3/4 of them are deleted. Blacklisting this tag would hide ONE post. Keep in mind this is over the span of a year, so that's hardly going to increase.
The most recent example I know of is this post: https://e621.net/posts/2995330
Its a real shame as the section was genuinely one of the funniest things on this website. A big drama happened with BitWolfy when a user replied to a joke that went along the lines of "Discord mods won't like this" and they said "Neither will the e621 mods". BitWolfy warned him and had a fit at a silly joke, acting like it was directed at him specifically.
My best guess is that the comment section was disabled on behalf of BitWolfy as he looked really silly. Either that or the drama that happened. But there's still plenty of drama-ridden comment sections that are still up (mostly cub, bestiality or gore) so I don't know.
I do wish that comment sections would be locked instead of being hidden by everyone except (presumedly) staff. That way nobody can post, but they can still view the previous comments.
I am quite curious about a lot of these comment sections. I always like cooking some popcorn and laughing at people argue with each other online.
P.S: Can someone enlighten me about Martha Speaks? (EDIT: I did some searching and apparently a Martha Speaks post was one of the last things the Buffalo Tops shooter looked at before committing the shooting. My guess is that trolls and daft commenters referenced the shooting, along with the usual comments on such posts.)
Updated
coolmintyfreshness said:
The most recent example I know of is this post: https://e621.net/posts/2995330Its a real shame as the section was genuinely one of the funniest things on this website. A big drama happened with BitWolfy when a user replied to a joke that went along the lines of "Discord mods won't like this" and they said "Neither will the e621 mods". BitWolfy warned him and had a fit at a silly joke, acting like it was directed at him specifically.
My best guess is that the comment section was disabled on behalf of BitWolfy as he looked really silly. Either that or the drama that happened. But there's still plenty of drama-ridden comment sections that are still up (mostly cub, bestiality or gore) so I don't know.
I do wish that comment sections would be locked instead of being hidden by everyone except (presumedly) staff. That way nobody can post, but they can still view the previous comments.
I am quite curious about a lot of these comment sections. I always like cooking some popcorn and laughing at people argue with each other online.
P.S: Can someone enlighten me about Martha Speaks? (EDIT: I did some searching and apparently a Martha Speaks post was one of the last things the Buffalo Tops shooter looked at before committing the shooting. My guess is that trolls and daft commenters referenced the shooting, along with the usual comments on such posts.)
I don't remember downvoting that post, but apparently, I did. Now, I wish I had a way to blacklist this and the other post without having to add their ids to my blacklist. If more comment sections are gonna be closed down because of their awful associated post then that might be a tag worth keeping after all.
Having a tag like this blatantly defeats the purpose of things which have been put in place to hide as much information as possible about which posts have disabled comments. It's now an even more manual process, thanks to a pull request which was merged last week.
Every action points to this information being VERY intentionally hidden.
Updated
The tag alias disabled_comments -> invalid_tag (forum #362588) has been approved by @bitWolfy.
Unintended consequences but probably worth it - why it got approved.
