The bulk update request #5971 (forum #383378) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #6785 is active.

mass update rubber_boots -> latex_boots

Reason: Rubber boots got used for the fetish, so this part one is to shift the bulk over. Part 2 will shift rain boots to rubber boots. Manual cleanup needed after.

EDIT: The bulk update request #6785 (forum #392649) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #6785 (forum #392649) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #6786 is active.

mass update rain_boots -> rubber_boots

Reason: Rubber boots got used for the fetish, so this part 2 is to shift the bulk of rain boots back to it. Manual cleanup needed after.

EDIT: The bulk update request #6786 (forum #392651) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

The bulk update request #6786 (forum #392651) has been approved by @Rainbow_Dash.

Welcome back to another list of mine. You know the drill by now. Without further ado, let’s get into the madness - I mean latex:

1. rubber_boots/latex_boots Manual sorting after the rubber_boots/latex_boots clean up. The mass updates saved us a lot of time and I already did the retagging. Maybe someone could look over the latex_boots if I missed something?
Also, do we wanna bring back rain_boots or leave them among the rubber_boots? The tag was used during one of the mass updates and is currently empty. If we were to reimplement it an implication from rain_boots to rubber_boots would be appropriate.

2. living_latex Recently a BUR got approved that changed the general tag to a species tag. I highly disagree with that, but said BUR also took care of the implications for latex_transformation, so not a total loss. I’ve already talked about living_latex in the context of latex_creature above, so I won’t repeat that. I just want to add a thought I had about this: A puddle of latex that moves on its own gets tagged as living_latex, currently a species tag, while tentacles… don’t get tagged as a species. Only if they show to have a body, then they get the tentacle_creature tag. Now apply the same logic to living_latex and latex_creature.
I suggest we change the category of living_latex back to general.

3. latex_neckwear A small tag I stumbled upon when we went through the latex tags. Yes, it is valid. The tagged objects don’t fit anywhere else. So far so simple. Then, I found a more recent BUR talking about the types of neckwear and I started looking if we have anything latex-related that could imply latex_neckwear or neckgear like an older thread suggested .
There were only 2 tags in this list that might interest us.
First, we have “collar”. I know, we don’t have a latex_collar tag. One of latex’s characteristics is its thinness, turning any collar-shaped piece of it into a choker (I’ll get to them as well). If the object is thicker… we wouldn’t recognize that as a latex collar. The only exception is the inflatable_collar and I can’t think of another one. An implication from inflatable_collar to latex_collar would be redundant due to both tags showing the exact same.

The second tag that caught my attention was necklace, because I know that choker implies it. latex_choker is a valid tag, but it doesn’t need an implication to latex_necklace, because there isn’t any other type of latex_necklace, so that would also be redundant. Also, continuing the implications from choker to necklace there is also an implication from necklace to jewelry. Would we copy this chain 1:1 we had latex_choker, latex_necklace and latex_jewelry all showing the exact same.

So, yes, that is a lot of text about tags we actually don’t need to imply. Why? I spent way too much time musing over this topic, so might as well write it down. There is also the possibility I went mad during the research for my lists. Anyway…

4. latex_suit I have noticed this one in the past, but didn’t pay it much attention, due to only being used 4 times. As of writing this text the number went up to 24 and I say we alias it away to latex_skinsuit like rubber_suit before this tag turns into a problem. Same reasoning for the alias as for rubber_suit. *_suit tags need a clean up in general, but that is not our focus. (EDIT 2/29/2024: Someone cleared out the latex_suit tag, but my point still stands.)

5. latex_choker/latex_harness I suggest we put a warning in the description of these two to apply them only if you are ABSOLUTELY sure it is actually latex being depicted. Chokers are thin by nature like latex, thus I suspect people might be too eager to tag them as latex_choker if they aren’t fully attentive. Same for latex_harness.

6. dark_latex At first I thought that this was just an unnecessary tag referring to the latex’s color, but then I noticed it is a species tag and actually has a (very short) description. dark_latex is actually the canon name of a type of latex creature from the videogame Changed, the best example being best boy Puro.
So, yeah, canon name. Should stay, but definitely needs a suffix to make it more clear what it actually is. dark_latex_(changed) probably.
I then thought a bit more about this tag and that it is drastically underutilized, despite Puro alone being a dark latex and having more than 1500 posts. With that being the canon name of his species we would need to apply this tag to all these posts (excluding alternate_species of course).
By the way, yes, light latex does exist as well in the game (not yet on e6), so if we are thorough we might as well implement that one as well.
To the implications: Initially, I hoped we could create an implication from dark_latex_(changed) to latex_creature, because that is basically what they are, but here on e6 we tag latex_cratures only as such if they are visibly out of latex (an exception to the TWYK normally associated with species tags).
Staying on the example of Puro, many posts show him as a canine creature without any trace of latex. Tagging his canon species would be absolutely right even in those cases, but latex_creature would be wrong. The only implication we can make is from dark_latex_(changed) to changed_(video_game) and then add latex_creature under related tags of the wiki entry.

7. latex_hood/hood in general First of all, rubber_hood still needs an alias to latex_hood. We somehow missed that one.
Second, we need to deal with some ambiguity of the term ‘hood’. e621’s definition to this tag is "A garment worn to cover the head of a character, usually attached to a cloak or hoodie." While it directly refers to cloaks and hoodies the “covers the head of a character'' part along with the fact that “hood” is a common term used for fetish masks resulted in latex_hood being almost exclusively being tagged on posts with latex/gimp masks. The example pictures of hood make it even more obvious that this isn’t what the tag is meant for, but in this case the solution is rather simple: For starters, more clear definitions for hood and latex_hood, directly excluding masks. DiligentDragon’s wiki entries are very good, so I trust them on this matter. The fetishwear can easily be sorted into the latex_mask tag. The fetish “hood” is a type of mask after all. Plan changed. Watsit made a good explanation to this point below. New plan is to first remove implications from the tag and then alias latex_hood and rubber_hood to latex_mask.

8. latex_bikini Do we need latex_bikini_top and latex_bikini_bottom or would just latex_bikini be enough? latex_bikini is very small as it is and these two tags would be even smaller without adding much. If the bikini top in the picture is made of latex, tagging it as just as bikini_top and latex_bikini instead of bikini_top, latex_bikini_top and latex_bikini still gets the point across.

9. latex_leggings Needs a clean up. Lots of stockings and thigh highs mistagged as leggings. EDIT 04/10/24: Done.

10. vinyl Was brought up in the past. All posts currently tagged as vinyl show latex. If I remember correctly we tried to preemptively alias away multiple vinyl_* tags, but that was seen as too much and we took it out of the BUR.
Personally, I would be in for a mass update from vinyl to latex. While yes it often refers to a latex-like material, I always associate vinyl records with this term. Emptying the tag with a mass update might be enough to discourage the use of it.

11. silicone I have heard this one being talked about alongside vinyl, but looking into the tagged pictures it’s obvious that different kinds of silicone are meant. Most of them refer to dildos, some to latex and a few to breast_implants (the one I expected to see from something tagged as silicone). We should probably clean this one completely out. EDIT 3/29/24: Done.

12. living_inflatable Should living_inflatable implicate latex_creature? I’m indecisive on this one for some reason despite all living inflatables I have seen so far fitting to latex_creature.

13. latex_gloves Another clean up. With the utility/fetishwear split medical_gloves already got removed from the latex_gloves tag, but I think gloves used for cleaning for example were missed, due to not having an own tag. I suggest the creation of the tag cleaning_gloves so that they can be sorted into that. Currently, they are mentioned in the wiki of work_gloves, but in my opinion cleaning_gloves are distinct enough to be their own thing and I also associate work_gloves with more industrial/sturdier looking gloves and not those used when washing dishes.

14. rubber_clothing Alias to latex_clothing. Somehow managed to overlook that one until now.

And I hope this is all. I spent several days just writing this list down. I hope I didn’t miss something.
After these are all done, there are only the implications among the latex tags left. If I had questions about one I already implemented it into the list above.

demonthedarkhound said:
2. living_latex Recently a BUR got approved that changed the general tag to a species tag. I highly disagree with that, but said BUR also took care of the implications for latex_transformation, so not a total loss. I’ve already talked about living_latex in the context of latex_creature above, so I won’t repeat that. I just want to add a thought I had about this: A puddle of latex that moves on its own gets tagged as living_latex, currently a species tag, while tentacles… don’t get tagged as a species. Only if they show to have a body, then they get the tentacle_creature tag. Now apply the same logic to living_latex and latex_creature.
I suggest we change the category of living_latex back to general.

Sounds like the two should probably be aliased together. A "tentacle" is best thought of as a kind of limb or appendage, like an arm or hair, not a creature in itself. A tentacle creature is a creature either made completely of tentacles, or some kind of nondescript blob from which a bunch of tentacles are connected to it. In contrast, living_latex sounds like it is a living thing made out of latex, that it is the creature itself rather than some latex appendage of a creature. So living_latex is a latex_creature, which is living_latex.

demonthedarkhound said:
7. latex_hood/hood in general First of all, rubber_hood still needs an alias to latex_hood. We somehow missed that one.
Second, we need to deal with some ambiguity of the term ‘hood’. e621’s definition to this tag is A garment worn to cover the head of a character, usually attached to a cloak or hoodie. While it directly refers to cloaks and hoodies the “covers the head of a character'' part along with the fact that “hood” is a common term used for fetish masks resulted in latex_hood being almost exclusively being tagged on posts with latex/gimp masks. The example pictures of hood make it even more obvious that this isn’t what the tag is meant for, but in this case the solution is rather simple: For starters, more clear definitions for hood and latex_hood, directly excluding masks. DiligentDragon’s wiki entries are very good, so I trust them on this matter. The fetishwear can easily be sorted into the latex_mask tag. The fetish “hood” is a type of mask after all.

[...]

14. rubber_clothing Alias to latex_clothing. Somehow managed to overlook that one until now.

If the idea is to have latex=fetishwear and rubber=non-fetishwear, then rubber_hood and rubber_clothing shouldn't be aliased to latex_hood and latex_clothing. Some types of raincoats are made out of rubber and include a rubber hood. There are also types of rubber pants that are used to wade through knee- or waist-high water.

It's also worth considering how people will tend to use tags. If some tag is misused due to a difference in context (e.g. an everyday term that means one thing in normal speech, but has a different meaning within a fetish scene, and the two uses are regularly mixed up), simply writing clearer wiki definitions won't stop people from using the tag based on how they see the term. It's better to come up with clearer tag names than to hope clearer wikis will change people's understanding of words.

watsit said:
Sounds like the two should probably be aliased together. A "tentacle" is best thought of as a kind of limb or appendage, like an arm or hair, not a creature in itself. A tentacle creature is a creature either made completely of tentacles, or some kind of nondescript blob from which a bunch of tentacles are connected to it. In contrast, living_latex sounds like it is a living thing made out of latex, that it is the creature itself rather than some latex appendage of a creature. So living_latex is a latex_creature, which is living_latex.

I still see a difference between latex_creature and living_latex. Especially in the context of encasement . Here are also a few examples where I would tag subject as living_latex, but not latex_creature:
post #3971753 post #4353197 post #4587371

Staying on the tentacle_creature/tentacles comparison: A point we wanted to overtake for latex_creature/living_latex is that a latex_creature has a body and thus can be counted and affect the number of characters in the picture (just like tentacle_creature). I also wouldn’t alias latex_creature and living_latex together for the same logical reason I wouldn’t alias tentacle_creature and tentacles together. I’m sure there are more situations I haven’t even thought about where the latter applies, but not the former.

If the idea is to have latex=fetishwear and rubber=non-fetishwear, then rubber_hood and rubber_clothing shouldn't be aliased to latex_hood and latex_clothing. Some types of raincoats are made out of rubber and include a rubber hood. There are also types of rubber pants that are used to wade through knee- or waist-high water.

It's also worth considering how people will tend to use tags. If some tag is misused due to a difference in context (e.g. an everyday term that means one thing in normal speech, but has a different meaning within a fetish scene, and the two uses are regularly mixed up), simply writing clearer wiki definitions won't stop people from using the tag based on how they see the term. It's better to come up with clearer tag names than to hope clearer wikis will change people's understanding of words.

No, the idea isn’t rubber = non-fetishwear. The majority of rubber* tags were already aliased away to their latex counterparts at this point. The only real exception is rubber_boots. The term is just too common to be aliased or replaced (This decision was made together with admin Rainbow_Dash, so I’m fairly confident on this one)
The idea is to use latex for fetishwear and fashion, suitable replacement tags for the non-fetish/utility stuff. So far, the replacements were only really necessary for the gloves (medical_gloves, work_gloves and possibly cleaning_gloves in the future). Raincoats would simply not be tagged as latex/rubber despite them possibly being of said material or a similar one. From the clean-ups so far I remember that raincoat was barely ever tagged as latex (or latex_clothing). It also doesn't necessarily need to look like latex, so an implication also wouldn't make sense.

Anyway, you are right on the latex_hood one. The hood has a distinct meaning in the context of the fetish scene that differs a lot from the normal hood.
Taking into account that there are over 11k pictures tagged as hood compared to around 200 ones with the “incorrect” latex_hood it would probably be best to change the latter tag.
In this case I would instead suggest to alias latex_hood to latex_mask and for the instances where the normal hood, but made of rubber/latex appears to simply tag them as hood. latex_hoodie would then imply hood instead of latex_hood and I can live with that. At least I have no better idea about this.

demonthedarkhound said:
Staying on the tentacle_creature/tentacles comparison: A point we wanted to overtake for latex_creature/living_latex is that a latex_creature has a body and thus can be counted and affect the number of characters in the picture (just like tentacle_creature). I also wouldn’t alias latex_creature and living_latex together for the same logical reason I wouldn’t alias tentacle_creature and tentacles together. I’m sure there are more situations I haven’t even thought about where the latter applies, but not the former.

I don't think "has a body" is good criteria for counting something as a creature/character. Various depictions of slimes and ghosts don't have bodies, or limbs, but are still creatures and characters. The distinction between tentacle and tentacle_creature is that a tentacle isn't the creature, a tentacle is a limb or appendage of a creature (e.g. a dragon character can have a tentacle in place of an arm; it's still the one dragon character, just with an abnormal limb). I wouldn't consider living_latex to be comparable, as latex isn't something that's part of a character, rather it's the material a character/creature is made out of. Living latex would be a living thing that's made of latex, that may or may not be attached to another character.

watsit said:
I don't think "has a body" is good criteria for counting something as a creature/character. Various depictions of slimes and ghosts don't have bodies, or limbs, but are still creatures and characters. The distinction between tentacle and tentacle_creature is that a tentacle isn't the creature, a tentacle is a limb or appendage of a creature (e.g. a dragon character can have a tentacle in place of an arm; it's still the one dragon character, just with an abnormal limb). I wouldn't consider living_latex to be comparable, as latex isn't something that's part of a character, rather it's the material a character/creature is made out of. Living latex would be a living thing that's made of latex, that may or may not be attached to another character.

Okay... I see your arguments, but something about this is still bugging me (And I never realized my tentacle comparison was this lacking). Calling living_latex a species in some depictions just feels wrong. I mean... Would you really tag the latex in the following pictures as a species?
post #4587371 post #4244032 post #4180320 post #3717023 post #3196089

The bulk update request #7602 is pending approval.

remove implication latex_hood (292) -> hood (13403)
remove implication latex_hood (292) -> latex_clothing (27102)
remove implication latex_hood (292) -> latex_headwear (307)
create implication latex_hoodie (11) -> hoodie (51050)
create implication latex_hoodie (11) -> latex_topwear (1150)
create implication hoodie_bodysuit (22) -> bodysuit (15919)
create implication hoodie_bodysuit (22) -> hood (13403)
create implication hoodie_leotard (48) -> leotard (15419)
create implication hoodie_leotard (48) -> hood (13403)
create alias latex_suit (120) -> latex_skinsuit (12484)
mass update vinyl -> latex

Reason: DiligentDragon decided to take a (possibly permanent) break from e6 which leaves me with taking care of the latex tags.
For detailed explanations of my reasoning for the following aliases/implications take a look at my last list above. I’ll only repeat the shortened versions here.

latex_hood (7. in the list) has a different meaning than the actual hood. It refers exclusively to a type of latex masks and like Watsit pointed out above changing the wiki description wouldn’t be enough, due to a “hood” being something completely different in the context of fetishwear than a “hood” that is part of a hoodie or cloak. The implication from hoodie to hood is already pending: https://e621.net/forum_topics/37057
So, first removing the implications, then a clean up to sort out the actual hoods/hoodies and finally an alias to latex_mask in a later BUR. Also, some hood-related implications I found so far. Implications from hoodie_leotard and hoodie_bodysuit directly to hood and not hoodie, because a hoodie is only a kind of topwear and these two cover more than just the top.

latex_suit has the same reason to be aliased away as rubber_suit. (4. above)
Took rubber_clothing -> latex_clothing out of the BUR. The request is already pending .

For vinyl (10. in the list) I opted for a mass update. On one hand we have the latex-like material vinyl, on the other we have vinyl_records, which are a completely different subject. I choose against an alias from vinyl to latex so that one of the first results you get when typing vinyl is vinyl_records. That could be enough to avoid further mistagging in that regard.

The tag latex_handware seems to be the result of a typo in a previous BUR . So, first removing the implication and later alias latex_handware to latex_handwear. EDIT: A different BUR already fixed the problem.

I still require some feedback on my list above. I’ve already done some of the clean ups I mentioned and Watsit’s feedback did also help me (Thanks by the way), but there are still some points open: 1, 2 (to a degree), 6, 8, 12 and 13 (Not the clean up. I can handle that part myself.) EDIT: Depending on how https://e621.net/forum_topics/44079 is solved point 2 from my list might be answered and my previous argumentation against it was pointless.
So, if anyone wants to voice their opinion on these, please do so.

The bulk update request #8040 is pending approval.

remove alias living_rubber (3) -> living_latex (2860)
remove implication living_latex (2860) -> latex (58182)
remove implication latex_creature (1277) -> living_latex (2860)

Reason: With the alias of living_shadow to shadow_creature being approved living_latex is also going to be aliased to latex_creature. But first we need to get rid of other aliases/implications for this alias to work.
living_latex and living_rubber will then be aliased to latex_creature in the next BUR.

demonthedarkhound said:
The bulk update request #8040 is pending approval.

remove alias living_rubber (3) -> living_latex (2860)
remove implication living_latex (2860) -> latex (58182)
remove implication latex_creature (1277) -> living_latex (2860)

Reason: With the alias of living_shadow to shadow_creature being approved living_latex is also going to be aliased to latex_creature. But first we need to get rid of other aliases/implications for this alias to work.
living_latex and living_rubber will then be aliased to latex_creature in the next BUR.

Meh, that specific alias being approved doesn't really tip the needle towards aliasing in one direction or another
If you're talking about having both *_creature and living_*, latex is the only place where this occurs, but that was true from the start

snpthecat said:
Meh, that specific alias being approved doesn't really tip the needle towards aliasing in one direction or another
If you're talking about having both *_creature and living_*, latex is the only place where this occurs, but that was true from the start

I opted for the alias, because Watsit already brought it up above and we don't need both latex_creature and living_latex if both cover the same.