This forum concerns mostly feral characters in relation to sex identification ONLY

go here for GENERAL feral anatomy discussion

Forum link:
forum #190431 - Tagging Policy Discussion: Feral anatomy and tagging genders: (Apr. 2016)

Moved discussion from forum #140749 to here.

See this page and later for relevant posts about this topic, especially concerning:

• gential_slit
• tagging male genital_slit and/or female pussy on a single post

• cloaca
• tagging pussy and/or cloaca on the same post

for ambiguous cases where it's not 'obvious' what the gender is, but ambiguous_gender is not applicable

Related Discussion [incomplete]

forum #208162 - cloaca (Sep. 2016)

forum #199251 - Antelope/Gazelle/Deer tagging confusion (Jul. 2016)

forum #186509 - Female hyenas and TWYS (Mar. 2016)

forum #180728 - New animal_penis and animal_pussy tags, thoughts on deprecating anatomically_correct_* tags, and a tagging project (Jan. 2016)

-
forum #169276 - Cloaca vs. Genital slit vs. "It's a girl now" PSA (Aug. 2015)

Other Macroforums

Go here to discuss Specific articles:

forum #191799 - Wiki Discussion: Specific articles: Edits, questions, concerns, etc. (Apr. 2016)

Go here to discuss Feral articles:

forum #204964 - Feral-specific tag/wiki discussion:[..] (Aug. 2016)

Go here to discuss birds:

forum #204948 - Avian Megathread (Aug. 2016)

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Discussion: Open

I'll add more relevant content soonish

Semi-related: Is there any reason not to alias slit to genital_slit? (ignoring mistags like "slit eyes", etc. for the moment)

parasprite said:
Semi-related: Is there any reason not to alias slit to genital_slit? (ignoring mistags like "slit eyes", etc. for the moment)

Mistags are a pretty big reason.
I don't how common it is nowadays, but pussies used to be (and still are) tagged as slit:

post #84965 post #83565 post #298280

Whereas genital_slit is similar to sheath.

Slit is also tagged for ambiguous slits that might be either genital slits or pussies. So those don't belong under genital_slit tag either.

Added to OP:

• forum #169276 - Cloaca vs. Genital slit vs. "It's a girl now" PSA (Aug. 2015)

titanmelon said:

• gential_slit
• tagging male genital_slit and/or female pussy on a single post

About slit:

I propose a new tag ambiguous_slit, and a new tagging method ambiguous_gender ambiguous_slit as a fallback when the slit could be tagged as either genital_slit or pussy. It is not sensible to determine a character's gender when they are clearly ambiguous enough.

Also, I would like this method could be added to howto:tag genders. So could prevent dealing with male/female/cuntboy tag war. The main purpose is to make sure no more taggers get confusions over this, as well as getting rid of any informal tagging rule about this.

After all, there is already a set of slit tags can be used for any gender with a slit. If I don't mind whatever a character's gender be ambiguous/male/female/cuntboy, I could always search slit.

• Suggestion: Making slit as an umbrella tag for both genital_slit and ambiguous_slit.

About cloaca:

I propose that cloaca replaces pussy, and so be written on its wiki.

A cloaca is a combination of pussy and anus, replacing pussy would be a bad idea.

Furrin_Gok said:
A cloaca is a combination of pussy and anus, replacing pussy would be a bad idea.

yeah this. also cloaca tag can apply on males.

Hm. So public opinions turned out to be tagging both cloaca and pussy on obvious female? I don't have any objection about that choice neither, but that would cause a little problem because both sets of cloaca and pussy related tags need to be tagged.

Or am I just overthinking because no one has mentioned their opinion about what the policy should be? I just wish this simple thing get settled down already: both or only one.

ZaSigma4 said:
Hm. So public opinions turned out to be tagging both cloaca and pussy on obvious female? I don't have any objection about that choice neither, but that would cause a little problem because both sets of cloaca and pussy related tags need to be tagged.

Or am I just overthinking because no one has mentioned their opinion about what the policy should be? I just wish this simple thing get settled down already: both or only one.

What are you talking about? You said to alias pussy -> cloaca, which is completely wrong.

Furrin_Gok said:
What are you talking about? You said to alias pussy -> cloaca, which is completely wrong.

No, what I mean is don't tag pussy if it is a cloaca. I am replying to this:

titanmelon said:

• cloaca
• tagging pussy and/or cloaca on the same post

ZaSigma4 said:
No, what I mean is don't tag pussy if it is a cloaca.

These things tend to get muddled on the forum, but as far as I know the policy is to only tag one or the other. I don't think there's any serious plans to change it.

seems like a good idea. The name is maybe a bit vague, but still a lot better than the slit tag. Which tends to get tagged for all kinds of slits, and is therefore pretty much useless. If it weren't for the high post count, it probably would've been disambiguated already.

ZaSigma4 said:
No, what I mean is don't tag pussy if it is a cloaca.

but pussy and cloaca tags can both apply to an image. sometimes you can see the anal and vaginal opening within cloaca clearly.
post #29317 post #141442

Mutisija said:
but pussy and cloaca tags can both apply to an image. sometimes you can see the anal and vaginal opening within cloaca clearly.

Yes, that's standard for cloacas. Doesn't mean that those are pussies.

https://e621.net/forum/show/198455

Genjar said:
Yes, that's standard for cloacas. Doesn't mean that those are pussies.

https://e621.net/forum/show/198455

but they fill all those standards? only difference is that there is anus too

Pussy is tagged when there's a separate orifice. Cloaca when there isn't.

ZaSigma4 said:
No, what I mean is don't tag pussy if it is a cloaca. I am replying to this:

There are times when--

Mutisija said:
but pussy and cloaca tags can both apply to an image. sometimes you can see the anal and vaginal opening within cloaca clearly.
post #29317 post #141442

^That.

Genjar said:
Yes, that's standard for cloacas. Doesn't mean that those are pussies.

https://e621.net/forum/show/198455

Vagina aliases to Pussy, therefore, it gets the pussy tag.

Genjar said:
Pussy is tagged when there's a separate orifice. Cloaca when there isn't.

Nowhere have I seen anybody say that except for you, right here, right now.

@Mutisija, @Furrin_Gok:
That's true, but should you tag pussy even when you can't clearly see the pussy in cloaca? What really bugged me is this, and I should mention this in the first place.

And are you aware that I mentioned if tagging both pussy and cloaca, then second post need to be tagged with both presenting_pussy + presenting_cloaca, and spread_pussy + spread_cloaca? Any thought? I want detailed tagging information to be added to wiki as many as possible.

At the same time, I am also wondering how about arthropod's... vent? (What to call that?) Should we treat them like cloaca? (I am not saying to tag them as cloaca.)

post #515317 post #322720

First one is just like your examples, but second one do you tag that with pussy? I won't.

Regarding what @Genjar said, I am concerned about how accurate it is.

Can't reply to anything for now, but just wanted to mention the discussion on this page and the next page, starting from:

• p forum #190368

since there's talk about pussy + cloaca
---

• I like the idea of cloaca being used whenever there's no anus visible, since it keeps things neat and consistent

• ambiguous_slit is a great answer to the questions raised in the above discussion link

• Additionally, how about a vertical_genital_slit and horizontal_genital_slit pair of tags?

post #189889 post #698777

(took about 10 mins. to find that 2nd one)

titanmelon said:
Can't reply to anything for now, but just wanted to mention the discussion on this page and the next page

titanmelon said:

• Additionally, how about a vertical_genital_slit and horizontal_genital_slit pair of tags?

Why use genital_slit which is male only? Vertical slit is too major, so I think only tag horizontal one is fine, and there is already a horizontal_slit tag.

I do believe 2nd post is horizontal_cloaca, I started populating that tag recently. That post is very anatomically correct, since you can see bulge on their ventral side of tail. I would like that thing to be tagged, so how about tail_bulge?

And there is more, horizontal_anus on post #877534.

ZaSigma4 said:
That post is very anatomically correct, since you can see bulge on their ventral side of tail. I would like that thing to be tagged, so how about tail_bulge?

That sounds fine. The name is clear enough, I don't think it would get mixed up with anything else.

ZaSigma4 said:
I am not taking it seriously, just feel puzzled. Just what?

This was actually referring to the closed slit, where you can't see the separate bits.

Furrin_Gok said:
Vagina aliases to Pussy, therefore, it gets the pussy tag.

Lot of tags have been aliased for the sake of convenience. I doubt that anyone predicted that someone would try to tag cloacas as vagina.

Nowhere have I seen anybody say that except for you, right here, right now.

Then you haven't been paying attention - https://e621.net/forum/show/169718

There was also that discussion about how "cloacas aren't pussies, we need a cloaca_juice tag instead of pussy_juice". That didn't really catch on. Most users just tag ambiguous_fluids for cloacas now.

As far as I know, those have always been separate. Both for blacklisting and searching purposes: any user who searches for pussy is almost certainly searching for the conventional ones.

And then there's the occasional unusual hybrids that have both a cloaca and a pussy:

post #847412

Here's a rather amusing example of just how few people know about the cloaca tag:

post #339971

no anus, horizontal labia, feral bird

tagged with pussy + presenting_pussy

titanmelon said:
Here's a rather amusing example of just how few people know about the cloaca tag:

post #339971

no anus, horizontal labia, feral bird

tagged with pussy + presenting_pussy

Tagged three years ago. Not sure if we even had a cloaca tag back then. Definitely had no subtags such as presenting_cloaca.
...and the user in question has been banned for overall bad tagging.

Genjar said:

That's a good point
-

post #828316

'puffy_anus'

dorsal_ridge

What do you all think about the dorsal_ridge tag?

It's rather obscure/vague even in anatomical terms, but I think it gets the general idea across

Here's one definition

Gray whales have a dorsal ridge, or knobby line of knuckles, along their backbone instead of a dorsal fin.

So stuff like post #748534 post #715864
and probably post #571484 etc would get the tag

Maybe for the plates on stegosauruses' backs too:
post #915110
(these are apparently scales, not bones but whatever)

Not sure about ones like post #334795 (the middle of the back + rear, not the longer protrusions)

---

Note that none of these features seem to be tagged at all

I forgot this forum was about feral anatomy and gender

..do we have a feral tags forum thread thing?

Let's just use it for all feral anatomy stuff; not really in the mood to make/maintain another macroforum that's already kinda quiet/niche

I'll add more info to the OPs and organize the topics soonish

titanmelon said:

dorsal_ridge

I actually researched that term long time ago and wrote a large amount of gibberish in my note.
My conclusion is: I am too crazy to be bothered with such little detail.
So I leave it alone and never again think about tagging it.

pussy/cloaca and penis etc: feral anatomy

Mentioning @NotMeNotYou 's post in here about the pussy/vagina thing

NotMeNotYou said:
What we tag as pussy is a combination of vulva, clitoris, labia majora and labia minora, depending on what is actually visible. While the penis has a single word to properly describe the combination of the glans, corpus, and foreskin (if applicable) we lack a scientific term for the combination of those for the female genitalia.

Pussy is the most neutral term that does this, as such it is used.

Vagina on the other hand would be completely wrong since that only describes the actual vagina, which, as we all know, is the internal flesh tube and not something we actually tag, or actually are able to see on the majority of posts tagged with pussy.

There's also the content of the page I linked to earlier here
Relevant feral anatomy content in bold

In cases of species who don't] have a 'vagina'] in the strict, anatomical sense of the word (i.e. no 'birth canal'),
'pussy' is a rather fitting tag to identify the similar concept, without being 'incorrect' about name usageThis presumably extends to the male case as well- dick, cock etc, for species with no] 'real' 'penis']

Somewhat coincidentally,

I think it's interesting that 2 possible slang terms for male/female sex organs are animal-themed

• cock
• pussy

Dunno if we could do anything with that info on e621,

or if it would just make things confusing with the relevant avian/feline species tags

ZaSigma4 said:
I actually researched that term long time ago and wrote a large amount of gibberish in my note.
My conclusion is: I am too crazy to be bothered with such little detail.
So I leave it alone and never again think about tagging it.

Hm, do you think there'd be no merit in having it as an anatomy tag?

post #970581

Should this be tagged with genital_slit or cloaca?

There doesn't seem to be an obvious anus present

titanmelon said:
post #970581

Should this be tagged with genital_slit or cloaca?

There doesn't seem to be an obvious anus present

It would seem to be a cloaca, all that's behind the slit are a couple folds of loose skin.

Just out of interest but what would you call something like this post #942404 , everything in. a single slit but separate orifices within.

titanmelon said:
Should this be tagged with genital_slit or cloaca?

There doesn't seem to be an obvious anus present

That's just pussy & missing anus. I think cloaca's position is where the anus would be.

titanmelon said:
Hm, do you think there'd be no merit in having it as an anatomy tag?

I don't know how to answer that. I just can't stop myself trying to make more tags based on that. I don't know how many there in my note.

^{_{Like vental_ridge, limb_ridge, facial_ridge, ridged_body, dorsal_fur, head_crest, dorsal_crest, tail_crest, ventral_crest, membranous_crest, feathered_crest, bone_crest.....}}

titanmelon said:

pussy/cloaca and penis etc: feral anatomy

There's also the content of the page I linked to earlier here":
Relevant feral anatomy content in bold

Since claspers isn't technically considered penis, I got a message about that when I tagged penis on a post long time ago.
https://e621.net/post_tag_history/index?post_id=937371

I would say don't tag penis if claspers don't look like penis tho, but that's not in this case.

ZaSigma4 said:
That's just pussy & missing anus. I think cloaca's position is where the anus would be.
[..]

Hm, yeah that's one of the main questions here,

'when is it a cloaca if the anus isn't visible?'

post #852240

and

"is it still a cloaca if there's no anus but the placement is 'incorrect'"?

--
We still tag misplaced vulvae and penises as such, so why not cloaca?

Ruku said:
Just out of interest but what would you call something like this post #942404 , everything in. a single slit but separate orifices within.

Maybe just let it be genital_slit...? Or call it long_slit?

@titanmelon:
Q1:
If slit is placed on crotch not butt, vertical or horizontal doesn't matter, I would tag that slit by default.

Q2:
It would be slit to me, in most case.

Q3:
Isn't slit be the default option?

post #950181

I would tag this genital_slit, and maybe add slit_orifice for the orifice in that slit.

If the creature is a male with a genital slit and isn't a humanoid nor mammal and I cannot see the anus, I tag cloaca.
The horizontal genital slit tag only makes sense if you can see the anus. You could optionally tag cloaca and anus.
Vertical genital slits are open to be tagged as cloaca if you can clearly see the anus is missing and the creature is non-mammal. In my opinion.

OK, I think I'll split this into feral gender and general feral-specific discussion after all

forum #204964 - Feral-specific tag/wiki discussion:[..] (Aug. 2016)

Especially since the former is currently a very graey area

Feel free to mention discussion in either one, if it's not too obvious

Update- Aug.16 2016

Added links to other relevant forums to OP

Reworded some OP text, to make the point of the forum clearer

-

Todo:

• move relevant posts in here to forum #204964 - Feral-specific tag/wiki discussion:[..] (Aug. 2016)

Oh also, regarding this:

Sorrowless said:
If the creature is a male with a genital slit and isn't a humanoid nor mammal and I cannot see the anus, I tag cloaca.
The horizontal genital slit tag only makes sense if you can see the anus. You could optionally tag cloaca and anus.
Vertical genital slits are open to be tagged as cloaca if you can clearly see the anus is missing and the creature is non-mammal. In my opinion.

which is an interesting consideration

here's an example:
post #42413
still gets tagged with pussy

if a character had cloacas for eyes, would it be tagged as such?

how would you know it's a cloaca? (aside from cases where the genitalia was obviously-recognizeable as human, canine, equine etc

---

That's one of the reasons I was suggesting we could use pussy to also mean cloaca, since the differences can become rather blurry sometimes

From the other thread [link here]:

• pussy
• vulva
• cloaca
• genital slit (???)
• [etc]]

• cock
• penis
• pseudo-penis
• claspers
• stinger-penises
• [etc]

titanmelon said:
if a character had cloacas for eyes, would it be tagged as such?

how would you know it's a cloaca? (aside from cases where the genitalia was obviously-recognizeable as human, canine, equine etc

Sure, if it looks like a cloaca. That is, one hole with multiple tracts in it. But it'd have to be unusually detailed cloaca to be taggable in such cases. Normally we simply tag it based on the lack of anus.

And if it's a closed slit and we can't see what's in it? Well, probably not a cloaca then. Would be tagged as closed eye instead.

Well, the slits in your example are pussies. The pussy tag fits perfectly well to me.

Hm, what would you all tag this as?

post #1014631

I'd want to say cloaca since there doesn't seem to be a visible anus,

but the way it's drawn just looks like an enlarged human female vulva + cetacean slit
there's something that looks a clitoris at the top too

I would tag is as both cloaca and pussy. Cloaca to describe a vent function and pussy to describe the female reproductive function. The reason why we can add pussy safely is because cloaca is spread open and we can see penis is not inside. Thus, it's a cloaca that is logically also a pussy. And yes, that looks like a clit on top so I would add it also.

titanmelon said:
Hm, what would you all tag this as?

post #1014631

I'd want to say cloaca since there doesn't seem to be a visible anus,

but the way it's drawn just looks like an enlarged human female vulva + cetacean slit
there's something that looks a clitoris at the top too

Sorry if I'm necroing this thread. I looked back at some of my older posts.

I think what really makes it a pussy in this case is that vaporeon is seemingly mammal. Being aquatic is also a factor. The cloaca tag had probably been in place if a reptile were depicted.

Is there a tag for the cetacean slit? Is it pretty much a cloaca?

Sorrowless said:
Sorry if I'm necroing this thread. I looked back at some of my older posts.

I think what really makes it a pussy in this case is that vaporeon is seemingly mammal. Being aquatic is also a factor. The cloaca tag had probably been in place if a reptile were depicted.

Is there a tag for the cetacean slit? Is it pretty much a cloaca?

Genital_Slit works the same for cetaceans as it does others iirc. Vaporeon isn't a cetacean tho and shouldn't be tagged marine either since it is still lands based and drawn as such by various other artists. The fact it has legs should rule out cetacean immediately. Some artists draw it with a slit, others don't which is part of the problem with it being purely fan interpretation lol...

rysyN said:
Genital_Slit works the same for cetaceans as it does others iirc. Vaporeon isn't a cetacean tho and shouldn't be tagged marine either since it is still lands based and drawn as such by various other artists. The fact it has legs should rule out cetacean immediately. Some artists draw it with a slit, others don't which is part of the problem with it being purely fan interpretation lol...

I meant to say that the aquatic features is a good reason for why Vaporeon sometimes gets the cetacean slit. May bad.

Another example of the cloaca/pussy/no anus thing

post #1103901

Pikachu is (supposedly) based on a mammalian rodent, which would mean they have an anus, but one isn't, or doesn't seem to be present

no_anus doesn't exist,

would this be considered a cloaca?
--

Throwing out the possibility of tagging multiple orifices (pussy + cloaca) in ambiguous cases like as a possible option unless/until someone comes up with a comprehensive solution

Sorrowless said:
[..]
Is there a tag for the cetacean slit? Is it pretty much a cloaca?

Looks like we just have cetacean_pussy with ~10 posts

There's genital_slit, I suppose, going from the name alone. But wiki says:

On dolphins, orcas, whales and other marine mammals, this is a cavity where the penis remains when not being used, mostly to preserve hydrodynamism.

On anatomically correct scalies and avians, this should normally replaced with a cloaca, which encompasses the anus as well, but many artists prefer to draw both orifices separated. Use this tag when it is the case.

which seems to imply males only

Also related to https://e621.net/forum/show/219713
is the anatomically_correct_cloaca tag

(Think reptiles/avians with no external(/visible) genitalia)

titanmelon said:

Another example of the cloaca/pussy/no anus thing

post #1103901

Pikachu is (supposedly) based on a mammalian rodent, which would mean they have an anus, but one isn't, or doesn't seem to be present

no_anus doesn't exist,

would this be considered a cloaca?
--

Throwing out the possibility of tagging multiple orifices (pussy + cloaca) in ambiguous cases like as a possible option unless/until someone comes up with a comprehensive solution

I think this would go under no_anus since Pikachu indeed seems to fit in under mammalian. Would it be a good solution to tag both no_anus and cloaca under such circumstances?