Edited: 6/24

It was a bonehead move bringing that picture to the forum. My pals are pretty miffed about it. I know I said some stupid-sounding stuff here and only made things worse. I wanted to make it up to them by editing this and withdrawing my previous statements.

As for prejudice at e621, you decide. I have to apologize to my friends.

people are more likely to downvote pictures if it has already negative score.

-6 isn't much. Aside from the bandwagoners Mutisja points out, you have to have a certain number of upvoters to stay above zero, unless you're remarkably mediocre.. some people will downvote because it's not their fetish, or even just because they're in a bad mood. Some people will even downvote because others are upvoting.

It is true that some people ... I dunno what goes through their head, but they will go on a 'not my fetish' downvoting/ comment campaign. It's hard to say how common this is, but it doesn't seem to be organized.

It would be interesting to get some voting stats (like, the highest scoring pics, what proportion of downvotes do they have?)

Bottom line, upvotes isn't a good metric of quality, just like on Youtube, Reddit, etc.
I have found favorite count somewhat more trustworthy.

EDIT: After looking at the pic, yeah, it's poorly made. I can easily see anybody randomly encountering it, going 'eh, nobody really wants to see that' and downvoting. Some level of depth and shading are reasonable expectations, except maybe on large animations.

Its low score comes from it being, well, poorly made. There's no shading, the linework is basic, the font used is known for its bad reputation, it looks like a lot of "copy-and-flip" has been used, and I can't exactly tell how their arms work. There's no cabal here.

People are prejudiced against that in the same way they're prejudiced against convicted murderers.

savageorange said:
It would be interesting to get some voting stats (like, the highest scoring pics, what proportion of downvotes do they have?)

Mmm, sure why not:

I didn't realize that not liking something was equal to prejudice.

The funny thing is that, in my opinion, downvoting fetishes you don't like (rather than blacklisting them) is closer to prejudice than downvoting art you don't like for quality reasons. Not that I think the word remotely applies in either situation, just, that it is odd to me that you cry prejudice in this situation, rather than the at least slightly more appropriate situations of offensive content / violence (which you seem to have no problem with being downvoted).

Edit: As to Parasprite's post, it seems that at least four of the ten worst posts are unarguably down there for quality reasons. Two seem to be down there for extreme-fetish reasons. Two for random extreme violence. One because it is intentionally offensive. And one, the Nazi-Furs, for a multitude of reasons, I think. It seems bad quality is the dominating factor for downvotes based on those samples.

MrLuigiMan said:
While browsing through the posts I recently noticed a rather...unsettling phenomenon. It involves this picture I spotted about a day or so ago.
post #675567
It's a somewhat silly, cartoony picture, but decent orverall. The unsettling thing is that it has a score of -6. When I first saw it it's score was -4.

I know when people come here they expect to see anthro furry porn that looks like it was hand painted or something, so when they see something lighthearted and colorful they often find it offputting. But this kind of negativity I've only seen on pictures with excessive violence or offensive subjects. Seeing that kind of score on something that's niether...it borders along prejudice and discrimination. I highly doubt that this artist is in any way popular, so hardly anyone is going to look at this to say whether or not it deserves this kind of score. And from the increase in negative votes since I first saw it, the people that hate it are the only ones who do anything to it.

Personally, I hate forums, so I won't hang around for a discussion. I just wanted to let someone know of the possibility of a hate/prejudice group hanging around here.

Downvoted because the art is strange at best, manufactured at worst. It looks like someone programmed a machine to draw but it malfunctioned and could only manage to use the vector tool and a fill tool. Nothing looks even, it just looks like a fake rip off of someones half-decent drawing. There's no depth to anything, and the lines are there not to highlight body shape but to actually -be- body shape which is the worst way to make a body outline.

huh, i don't see any reason to down vote that kind of pic. no particular reason to up vote it either though. not that i don't like it, it's just meh to me but i've definately seen FAR worse before. this seems harmless and undeserving of down votes imo but then again theres this vile little thing known as opinions that the internet despises sometimes. >.>

aurel said:
yea, well, as if you can draw better...
*cough cough*
forum #162678
*COUGH COUGH COUGH*

Uh, wasn't that drawn as a joke?

aurel said:
yea, well, as if you can draw better...
*cough cough*
forum #162678
*COUGH COUGH COUGH*

Complete sarcasm when drawing that and you know it. But since you insist on comparisons:

post #532597

parasprite said:

post #257069

this whole Cerberus (artist) = Tirrel thing is really confusing for some users, apparently

You guys are all just prejudiced against shitty art!

I'm mostly impressed as to how it got past the quality team.

aurel said:
*choo choo* The thread train is changing tracks to "wtf nmny" route. Hold on to your pants as changing tracks may result in a crash.

Thinking, it could of been automatically accepted as it was listed as a child of post #580725... But I don't know.

aurel said:
*choo choo* The thread train is changing tracks to "wtf nmny" route. Hold on to your pants as changing tracks may result in a crash.

NMNY deletes pic because of bad quality - people complains.
NMNY doesn't delete pic - people complains.
People on e621 are assholes.

This is different, it's not 3D :3

Granberia said:
NMNY deletes pic because of bad quality - people complains.
NMNY doesn't delete pic - people complains.
People on e621 are assholes.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'm Admin NotMeNotYou and this is my favorite post on the forum.

MrLuigiMan said:
While browsing through the posts I recently noticed a rather...unsettling phenomenon. It involves this picture I spotted about a day or so ago.
post #675567
It's a somewhat silly, cartoony picture, but decent orverall. The unsettling thing is that it has a score of -6. When I first saw it it's score was -4.

I know when people come here they expect to see anthro furry porn that looks like it was hand painted or something, so when they see something lighthearted and colorful they often find it offputting. But this kind of negativity I've only seen on pictures with excessive violence or offensive subjects. Seeing that kind of score on something that's niether...it borders along prejudice and discrimination. I highly doubt that this artist is in any way popular, so hardly anyone is going to look at this to say whether or not it deserves this kind of score. And from the increase in negative votes since I first saw it, the people that hate it are the only ones who do anything to it.

Personally, I hate forums, so I won't hang around for a discussion. I just wanted to let someone know of the possibility of a hate/prejudice group hanging around here.

You brought that picture to the forums like that? And thought it would do ANYTHING other than make its condition worse? Man, if I had a dollar for each time some dolt did that on the Internet I'd be one rich mother f***er. Bet you're gonna hate forums even more now >:I

...Sorry about the harshness...

RamblingRambo said:
You brought that picture to the forums? And thought it would do ANYTHING other than make its condition worse? Man, if I had a dollar for each time someone did that on the Internet I'd be one rich mother f***er. Bet you're gonna hate forums even more now >:I

But at least you got to upvote it on both of your accounts.
Anyway, keep training, you have a lot of potential. Just make sure you try to improve and try out some new techniques and stuff.

On second look, you also are OP, in addition to being the artist of the image.
GG

RamblingRambo said:
You brought that picture to the forums? And thought it would do ANYTHING other than make its condition worse? Man, if I had a dollar for each time someone did that on the Internet I'd be one rich mother f***er. Bet you're gonna hate forums even more now >:I

haters gonna hate tag seems kinda fitting. you know, if you don't like the pic and/or artist, theres a thing known as the black list. it works even with artists and user names.

NotMeNotYou said:
On second look, you also are OP, in addition to being the artist of the image.
GG

Plot twist: he's also me.

And you.

Fenrick said:
Plot twist: he's also me.

And you.

But how can this be if I am not me and not you?

Cutedementia said:
It looks like someone programmed a machine to draw but it malfunctioned and could only manage to use the vector tool and a fill tool.

Racist.

NotMeNotYou said:
But at least you got to upvote it on both of your accounts.
Anyway, keep training, you have a lot of potential. Just make sure you try to improve and try out some new techniques and stuff.

On second look, you also are OP, in addition to being the artist of the image.
GG

LOL, you think I'M the artist? That's a good one. Reminds of that time on GameWinners when someone thought I was two people because our IPs somehow wound up being the same.

RamblingRambo said:
LOL, you think I'M the artist? That's a good one. Reminds of that time on GameWinners when someone thought I was two people because our IPs somehow wound up being the same.

To be fair, I think you, MrLuigiMan and the artist are all the same person, and I haven't seen your IPs.

Clawdragons said:
To be fair, I think you, MrLuigiMan and the artist are all the same person, and I haven't seen your IPs.

Well, I'm not the only one that connects to the Internet from where I do, so I couldn't argue with you. One of them could be in the same building right now for all I know.

RamblingRambo said:
Well, I'm not the only one that connects to the Internet from where I do, so I couldn't argue with you. One of them could be in the same building right now for all I know.

No offence to the original artist, but something that low effort/low quality isn't gonna be openly defended on a forum by some random dude, especially on a site like this. It's the same guy.

SirBrownBear said:
No offence to the original artist, but something that low effort/low quality isn't gonna be openly defended on a forum by some random dude, especially on a site like this. It's the same guy.

I said pretty much the same thing to the guy. Don't start responding to me as if I was either of them.

I don't really think it matters, at this point. It's just a case of "No, John. You are the zombies."

RamblingRambo said:
I said pretty much the same thing to the guy. Don't start responding to me as if I was either of them.

...I'm not, I responded to your comment follow the comment chain, not because I'm directly addressing you. Chill...

RamblingRambo said:
prejudice and discrimination

I don't think you know what those words mean.

I think the was not good or bad but now someone made a topic about it makes me want to down vote it mainly cause someone think it is "unsettling phenomenon", "Prejudice", and "excessive violence" or "offensive subjects" for a person don't like something so they down vote it or comment on it

parasprite said:
I don't think you know what those words mean.

paging tumblr

Ratte said:
Racist.

Can we implement upvoting comments? Because this one deserves a few.

NotMeNotYou said:
But at least you got to upvote it on both of your accounts.
Anyway, keep training, you have a lot of potential. Just make sure you try to improve and try out some new techniques and stuff.

On second look, you also are OP, in addition to being the artist of the image.
GG

Nice one OP. Don't worry about upvotes or faves or anything, just draw what you want. But the vector tool is not your friend, practice more with the brush tool or a pencil first and that will help your line quality a lot.

Tokaido said:
practice more with the brush tool or a pencil first and that will help your line quality a lot.

I only ever used the vector tool for my stuff at the start.

I still only ever use the vector tool for my stuff.

The difference is I could spend half an hour editing one line to be shaped exactly right so it looks natural, not so it's a smooth line but so that it works well with the shapes around it.

See: A starting picture from my first few months here
post #432317

Vectors aren't evil... but they won't help your fluidity. It's important to keep in mind that you lose some 'spirit' from your original idea when you polish it from a sketch to a finished image (and the longer you go, the more 'spirit' you lose in exchange for 'technique'), no matter how pro you are. So working -only- with an exacting medium like vectors, yes, is a problem. composition thumbnailing, sketches, studies (especially gestures) are far better suited to something looser like pencil or brush work. They make it easier IME to disregard minor inaccuracies in the service of the bigger picture.

I mention this specifically because OP's image is pretty damn stiff. Gesture and depth are the two main reasons why, IMO.

TLDR: getting too exacting too soon will get you stuck on details, with an unsatisfying whole. Using a less accurate medium reminds and to some extent forces you to focus on the big relationships and facts, not the details.

tfkcex said:
I think the was not good or bad but now someone made a topic about it makes me want to down vote it mainly cause someone think it is "unsettling phenomenon", "Prejudice", and "excessive violence" or "offensive subjects" for a person don't like something so they down vote it or comment on it

That's exactly what I was thinking when I spotted this thread.

And what's this "OP" stuff? I hear it all the time with Pokemon and Smash Bros.

parasprite said:

RamblingRambo said:
prejudice and discrimination

Hey, I didn't say that.

RamblingRambo said:
LOL, you think I'M the artist? That's a good one. Reminds of that time on GameWinners when someone thought I was two people because our IPs somehow wound up being the same.

Ah yes, I guess it's a complete coincidence that a lot of negatively voted images from OddyMcStrange have upvotes of all 3 accounts on them, that all 3 accounts have the same dynamic IP for at least 5 months, that Rambo made a comment how the score is undeserved on the post, Luigi brought it to the forums (after not ever having used it), then after the inevitable backlash happened Rambo came and scolded the OP.
Complete coincidences.

RamblingRambo said:
Well, I'm not the only one that connects to the Internet from where I do, so I couldn't argue with you. One of them could be in the same building right now for all I know.

The router you're connecting to has only 3 accounts on it, and neither of these accounts ever moved to another IP that wasn't shared between the others.

RamblingRambo said:
And what's this "OP" stuff? I hear it all the time with Pokemon and Smash Bros.

Multiple meanings depending on context.
In forum or comment threads (as well as imageboards) OP means Original Poster or Original Post, which refers to the first post in a thread that caused the discussion.

For games it often stands for Overpowered, which means that a character, class, weapon, skill, or whatever else is the subject, is too strong and not balanced well.

nothing beats good coffee and some delicious e6 drama in nice warm summer morning

Mutisija said:
nothing beats good coffee and some delicious e6 drama in nice warm summer morning

Tea suits well also

There's nothing wrong with people hating my art. I'm a cartoon artist, I expect that. No need to start a forum topic over it. Besides, that's just a practice pic, it wasn't going to be much, anyway. You should really be "hating" on my other stuff. They're better than this one, for the most part.

[P.S. - I use GIMP 2.6 ;)]

OddyMcStrange said:

[P.S. - I use GIMP 2.6 ;)]

Why would you do that?
2.8 is the current stable version and has many improvements over 2.6.

Cartoons are actually pretty popular here BTW -- pretty sure a majority of pony pics qualify as cartoon, and there are tonnes of pony pics.

savageorange said:
2.8 is the current stable version...

Really? I didn't know about that. I'd better go get the updated version!

Hey, I didn't say that.

It was worth a try. :P

If you're using vectors it might be worth getting Inkscape or DrawPlus Starter, as their vector tools are far more powerful than GIMP's.

aurel said:
yea, given that there... are no vector tools in gimp <_<

I assume he was referring to the path tool, which is a vector path that can be given a solid fill or stroke.

NotMeNotYou said:
Ah yes, I guess it's a complete coincidence that a lot of negatively voted images from OddyMcStrange have upvotes of all 3 accounts on them, that all 3 accounts have the same dynamic IP for at least 5 months, that Rambo made a comment how the score is undeserved on the post, Luigi brought it to the forums (after not ever having used it), then after the inevitable backlash happened Rambo came and scolded the OP.
Complete coincidences.

The router you're connecting to has only 3 accounts on it, and neither of these accounts ever moved to another IP that wasn't shared between the others.

Multiple meanings depending on context.
In forum or comment threads (as well as imageboards) OP means Original Poster or Original Post, which refers to the first post in a thread that caused the discussion.

For games it often stands for Overpowered, which means that a character, class, weapon, skill, or whatever else is the subject, is too strong and not balanced well.

Alright, alright, I can't keep it a secret any more. Those two are friends of mine. We like to hang out and use the same computer, my computer. OddyMcStrange decided to be an artist, and we wanted to support him, so we made accounts, too. MrLuigiMan got the idea to try the forums when he saw all the dislikes. We said he shouldn't, but he did anyway.

Didn't mean to cause a bunch of suspision by all using the same computer all the time.

aurel said:
yea, given that there... are no vector tools in gimp <_<

• Ellipse select
• Rectangle Select
• Freehand Select
• Paths

It's true that Inkscape is far better for vector. But I wasn't about to tell anybody to change the program they use -- that's surprisingly serious business. It's rarely successful.

"The version you're using could be upgraded", by comparison -- most people are happy to try upgrading.

I wouldn't say e621 owns the capital on prejudice. The internet is filled with racists, bigots, and homophobes. Some of them merely reside here.

RamblingRambo said:
Alright, alright, I can't keep it a secret any more. Those two are friends of mine. We like to hang out and use the same computer, my computer. OddyMcStrange decided to be an artist, and we wanted to support him, so we made accounts, too. MrLuigiMan got the idea to try the forums when he saw all the dislikes. We said he shouldn't, but he did anyway.

Didn't mean to cause a bunch of suspision by all using the same computer all the time.

In the future, when people do stuff like this it's generally pretty obvious, and your best bet is to be clear from the start (stating outright "he's a friend of mine"), or at the very least be clear when you start to get questioned. It comes off way wrong if you do things any other way.

Not trying to be rude right now, by the way, I'm trying to give genuine advice, because I've seen this sort of thing a lot. Hopefully you don't take this the wrong way.

aurel said:
Gimp is not a vector drawing software (or a hybrid for that matter).

True

and it does not have vector graphics tools,

False

everything is pixel graphics based.

99% true. You can only render vector, there is no persistent state that can be manipulated visually.

Even if paths tool looks like something close, it is not a vector graphics tool.

Eh.
As a frequent, familiar user of both GIMP and Inkscape, let me say: "I don't give a fuck. Close enough for government work."

...and dont even talk about the selection tools.
I dont care if it uses vector maths, we are talking about vector graphics, not maths.

Vector maths are what you do to render a vector graphic.

Authoring an SVG is a different proposition from simply rendering a vector (which, in fact, is exactly what you are doing when you use rectangle select, ellipse select, freehand select, or paths and fill or stroke the result.). Although you can create limited SVGs via GIMP's path tool, FWIW.

If you want a vector graphics program, don't use GIMP, it isn't one.
If you want a program that can do some vector graphics rendering for you, GIMP can.
It's that simple.

NotMeNotYou said:
But how can this be if I am not me and not you?

If you are not me and are not you, then you are a Nobody. You have now been accepted into Organization XIII.

...Sorry, I couldn't resist.

The backpedaling is real

Tokaido said:
The backpedaling is real

Yeah

It's always fun to see someone react after being called out.

SirBrownBear said:
It's always fun to see someone react after being called out.

You sound like the kind of guy that just likes to watch and promote arguements.

There's been something rasping at the back of my head for a while now and I just have to let it out.

NotMeNotYou said:
...all 3 accounts have the same dynamic IP for at least 5 months...

For your information I was given a static IP, not dynamic. It hasn't made any significant change in over a year. And Luigi didn't decide to make his account until just last month. He HAS used forums before, and you just saw why he said he doesn't like them (the guy just doesn't learn sometimes).

Just because you can read the information right off my modem doesn't mean you know everything that happens in front of the monitor. Try to remember that next time you try acting like "Mr. Badass Admin Guy".

Well, that's a load off. I feel a little better now.

RamblingRambo said:
Just because you can read the information right off my modem doesn't mean you know everything that happens in front of the monitor. Try to remember that next time you try acting like "Mr. Badass Admin Guy".

Well, that's a load off. I feel a little better now.

Oh, I'm fully aware of that, it's just that we can't and won't differentiate on that. If an ip makes trouble that entire ip is fucked, so to speak. What would the point of bans be if someone could just make a new account and say 'but it was <insert family member here>.
Your best chance is to be upfront about stuff like that, we don't think less of you if you're asking for or about real life friends.

NotMeNotYou said:
We don't think less of you if you're asking for or about real life friends.

Yeah. Oddy tells me to try to let up and be more open. I should listen to him.

BTW, you might want to reconsider your avatar. You can't really do much but take stuff seriously when you're an admin.

aurel said:
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! NMNY needs to take things not seriously.
otherwise we are all fucked

What he says.

the googly eyes version will forever be my favorite
post #560834

I guess Oddy's pretty good at not taking the Internet seriously, with the cartoony stuff he posts.

Cutedementia (and others) said:
...stuff...

Oddy asked me to not talk about his art anymore, but I wanted to encourage people to look at his other drawings. It'd mean a lot to him if people knew him for his quirky art instead of a single picture they all talked shit about.

I've seen this before, someone using multiple accounts to pretend to be supporters/friends/roomates thinking we can't tell the difference. This is one of the more cringey examples I've seen. But if you want to continue to embarrass yourself, it's not against the rules. Just keep the submission voting to one account.

ippiki_ookami said:
I've seen this before, someone using multiple accounts to pretend to be supporters/friends/roomates thinking we can't tell the difference. This is one of the more cringey examples I've seen. But if you want to continue to embarrass yourself, it's not against the rules. Just keep the submission voting to one account.

Hey, I came clean with everything. If you can't bring youself to believe that, that's your problem.