Topic: [Rule Change] Explicit young human and human-like content is no longer allowed to be posted.

Posted under General

This topic has been locked.

realdash said:
Then people should make new threads afterward to keep up the talk.

Which could lead to perma-bans and locked threads. They can crackdown hard. They own the site.

mewika said:
... This removal marks the point it's officially not that.

To be fair the point it was officially not an archival site is when it started respecting DNP's and takedown requests from artists. As respectful as it may be to individuals it is antithetical to the idea of archival.

list22 said:
You know what? What's stopping the big artists here from doing a massive boycott of e621?

the big artists don't care about cub, much less of loli/shota, they aren't on your side

cumwizard said:
I primarily blame the cheap smartphone revolution of the early 2010s. That bashed down the skill and price barriers to the Internet by suddenly introducing hundreds of millions of utterly unaccustomed people to an existing ecosystem and making it fit THEM. They came in at a time when social media was also exploding as well, so you have tons of people online who never learned to separate the Internet from real life re-dictating the flow of Internet etiquette.

yanti said:
Just a few months ago, I had the very same realization that the internet I spent too much time on and knew and loved was gone, replaced by something monetized and sterilized. This triggered something of an existential crisis, as I realized that Things Are Different Now, but I took some comfort visiting some websites still live that carried on the design and spirit of the late 90's - early 10's. e621 was one of them. I fear it is no more. Advertisers, obeying their sole instruction to get money, have begun to squash any art they find "problematic" here, too -- and I've spent enough time on Tumblr to know that anything can be made problematic.

Interestingly enough, I asked one AI Chatbot when "edgy" stopped being "cool" and became "cringe", and the answer -for which I had to push a little- was "around 2010"

uncommondoor said:
In this instance, I do. He exaggerates a lot at most. But hey, Dems are certainly bringing their 'A Game' with Biden, right?

Which one which, they all sound the same.

list22 said:
Which could lead to perma-bans and locked threads. They can crackdown hard. They own the site.

Getting perma-banned from an already sinking ship isn't what I would call an effective deterrent.

mewika said:
you guys trust what donald trump says?

(/j) "but ya gotta think of the whole project 2025, and the whole "Gay Furry hackers" thing that happened just recently! They totally don't want revenge!"

drakewilde1234 said:
the big artists don't care about cub, much less of loli/shota, they aren't on your side

Dagasi is big and... you know the art.

uncommondoor said:
In this instance, I do. He exaggerates a lot at most. But hey, Dems are certainly bringing their 'A Game' with Biden, right?

Hating Trump and being a leftist doesn't mean I like Biden. They're both fascists trying to string words together while brain-eating amoeba go to town in their thick skulls.

I don't have any inside knowledge about what happened here, but I can make a pretty good guess. I DO have a close friend in the credit card processing industry, working for one of the big credit card companies whose name you know. They can and WILL revoke a business's access to the payment portal for handling material that can even be broadly construed as CSAM, whether or not it meets any particular legal threshold or even whether the content is fictional.

Same story for some other elements of the banking and finance industry.

Sure, this might be a fight with the webhost. But I think it's more likely the financial industry's bully pulpit at play here. You may or may not like it, or agree with their demands, or think their influence is insanely outsized. But none of that matters, because if you DO get blacklisted by the payment processors, that's the ballgame.

So far, they've really not seemed to care about anything other than CSAM, at least as far as visual arts go. Everyone's ferals and cubs are for better or worse, safe. In other media, there have been occasional forays into punishing producers of NC and NC-adjacent material (some nontraditional payment processors have been increasingly suspicious of hypnosis content creators), but I think any direct attacks on that from the financial industry writ large are far on the horizon, if they happen at all.

Well this was inevitable ever since the "X results hidden you must login to see them" messages popped up a few years ago.
I barely uploaded here since everyone else is so dedicated they usually beat me to it so I only uploaded stuff that others had missed and only two of my uploads even got hit in this purge.
But I did take the time to fix tags on occasion, something I won't bother with here now and can't suggest anyone else wastes their own time on now either given that without the efforts of the users tagging so diligently a purge of this scale would not have been possible logistically.

list22 said:
Gentlemen, It was a honor to archive porn with you tonight.

Truly couldn't put it better myself it was a pleasure archiving alongside you all, now off to look for a good sale on some spinning rust.

I do gotta ask before I sleep, is there a fallback option instead of e621?
Eventually I feel they're gonna ban feral and other things too here to please their masters, is there a backup plan like a new site?

list22 said:
You know what? What's stopping the big artists here from doing a massive boycott of e621?

That's what I'm hoping for, but then, a lot of them didn't boycott FurAffinity either after their bans, so ultimately the only ones that are probably going to request DNP were those who had some (but not all) of their stuff deleted, and maybe close artist friends of theirs.

icywings said:
Dagasi is big and... you know the art.

Dagasi has infinitely more avenues to share their art than this site, the only benefit that e621 had over inkbunny was that human/anthro art could be posted, now that isn't true, so..., just keep posting what can be posted on inkbunny (until cub gets banned and dagasi gets personally blacklisted or something lol)

I imagine this has been brought up before, but there's 11 pages to this thread and I gotta be somewhere in an hour, but is it too much to hope for that the deleted works might still exist in an archive somewhere, which could be dumped somewhere else?

list22 said:
I do gotta ask before I sleep, is there a fallback option instead of e621?
Eventually I feel they're gonna ban feral and other things too here to please their masters, is there a backup plan like a new site?

Pixiv, baraag (This one is even safer because it is a Fediverse)

brayinggirl said:
I don't have any inside knowledge about what happened here, but I can make a pretty good guess. I DO have a close friend in the credit card processing industry, working for one of the big credit card companies whose name you know. They can and WILL revoke a business's access to the payment portal for handling material that can even be broadly construed as CSAM, whether or not it meets any particular legal threshold or even whether the content is fictional.

Same story for some other elements of the banking and finance industry.

Sure, this might be a fight with the webhost. But I think it's more likely the financial industry's bully pulpit at play here. You may or may not like it, or agree with their demands, or think their influence is insanely outsized. But none of that matters, because if you DO get blacklisted by the payment processors, that's the ballgame.

So far, they've really not seemed to care about anything other than CSAM, at least as far as visual arts go. Everyone's ferals and cubs are for better or worse, safe. In other media, there have been occasional forays into punishing producers of NC and NC-adjacent material (some nontraditional payment processors have been increasingly suspicious of hypnosis content creators), but I think any direct attacks on that from the financial industry writ large are far on the horizon, if they happen at all.

Unrelated to the thread, but they also go after people who sell firearms, and people who sell weed too.

drakewilde1234 said:
Dagasi has infinitely more avenues to share their art than this site, the only benefit that e621 had over inkbunny was that human/anthro art could be posted, now that isn't true, so..., just keep posting what can be posted on inkbunny (until cub gets banned and dagasi gets personally blacklisted or something lol)

e621 also benefits strongly due to it being an archive, as the website states it is. With so much old and rare stuff going the way of the dodo, it hurts.

I'm disappointed by what is happening out there. I wish we lived in a better world.

list22 said:
I do gotta ask before I sleep, is there a fallback option instead of e621?
Eventually I feel they're gonna ban feral and other things too here to please their masters, is there a backup plan like a new site?

Baraag, All The Fallen, etc. Sadly though, the "safe" alternatives are *Infested* with pro-c peds & zoos because e621 was one of the only sites that curated a userbase that was against that.

list22 said:
I do gotta ask before I sleep, is there a fallback option instead of e621?
Eventually I feel they're gonna ban feral and other things too here to please their masters, is there a backup plan like a new site?

We could always bring back Wild Critters...

https://wildcritters.ws/

Or go post a frick-load of Sonic & Tails pr0nz to F-Chan,
since currently it's a Ghost Town and nobody is modding it....

http://fchan.us/

.......

And of course, there's always Ink Bunny, but HOW LONG until they also adopt similar policies???

The "Doom Clock" is always ticking... it's like Spotify, one day your favorite album is there, next day it's gone....

......

notmenotyou said:
Greetings!

We've got a doozy this time.

I don't feel it necessary to repeat certain points for the billionth time so I'll be brief on this and hopefully bring out a few newer criticisms:
- A warning should be mandatory, no excuses. No reason for people to not be able to download and archive their favorites before you inadvertently snapped them off the face of the earth (upwards of 5000 posts without sources have been deleted by you guys over the years).
- I'm surprised you people still happen to even have business partners since it seems every time I hear something happening around here, you guys are nuking something or making things worse for artists and getting in petty slapfights.
- You and your staff are abysmal at PR and transparency. It took multiple replies for you to "clarify" that it wasn't quite the government pressuring you, but rather your business partners being pressured and thus pressuring you. This should have been in the OP, not 3 pages later. Please hire someone who actually knows how to write an announcement with some actual transparency.

I understand the business side of things drives these kinds of choices, so I can't speak against stuff like that as it is important to keep things running smoothly as possible, but this could have been handled so much better. Why is this board of staff so allergic to transparency? Why not at least try to warn people about what unfortunately necessary things you're about to do?

--

Now I'm going to dive headfirst into the opposite side of the pool and point fingers at the community, the very people giving good points but ultimately doing nothing but useless chatter.

What are you doing to prevent things like this from happening in future? We've had purges before, we will continue to have purges in future, what are you doing to keep this from becoming as big of a problem as it currently is?

Are you running a script to scrape every single upload using the e621 API in realtime? Are you going to host a website to be a proper archive to prevent lost artwork? Are you donating and supporting alternative boorus and websites who want to be those alternatives but can barely reach their monthly donation goals for hosting? What good is whining when you could be spending your focus and energy on something constructive that actually mitigates the many issues this site has?

It's the same "complain, stick your head in the sand, wait until the next problem arises, repeat ad nauseam" schtick that communities and fandoms have all the time. Your wiki host putting ads all over your game's wiki? Just complain about them, don't bother migrating and supporting an alternative. Developers of your favorite game not updating it and fixing botting problems in official servers? Just complain about them, don't bother hosting community servers to replaces the official ones.

Over 10 years ago, if something changed your favorite website for the worse, people would immediately get together and host a new site of their own, a la "my own X with blackjack and hookers" mentality. Anyone worth their salt can host a booru and get the ball rolling, so start there and see where it leads. I'm not saying what these guys do is justified at all, it's nothing short of burning digital books because someone else didn't like its contents. What I am saying is if you're someone who has the wherewithal to make archives and alternatives, get off your asses and do it instead of just sitting in here complaining then conceding and going about your day. I host my own forum hosting art from myself and several others, I know what it can take to run places like this and keep it in the green.

What will it take for you people to seek out alternatives, either by making their own or supporting those who've done so already? Are you going to wait until this place purges feral? Maybe cub? Heck, maybe after IP rights holders get involved and tell them to take down anything Pokemon, etc. related? What is really stopping anyone from making their own (actual) furry art archive that doesn't play these games?
This isn't just an issue about e621, it's about the community stepping up to plate and doing something rather than just standing around kicking up dirt on the sidelines. Both parties involved here can do so much better than this.

kodaskii said:
Hating Trump and being a leftist doesn't mean I like Biden. They're both fascists trying to string words together while brain-eating amoeba go to town in their thick skulls.

They're also chosen based on how more bad the other choices were. Biden VP Harris and Florida gov Ron are example. Ron promoted so many anti gay bills while Harris was an ex-cop or ex-prosecutor.

omnimind said:
I imagine this has been brought up before, but there's 11 pages to this thread and I gotta be somewhere in an hour, but is it too much to hope for that the deleted works might still exist in an archive somewhere, which could be dumped somewhere else?

A little over 10% of deleted material didn't have a source, and many of the posts in the remaining 90% have dead links for their sources, so who knows. Great work from an "archival" site.

I highly Doubt Project 2025 will ever be implanted tbqh. I think it's just fear mongering.

drakewilde1234 said:
yeah but they have never actually been, specially that "regardless of quality" part

It goes against the values of an archive regardless, especially since they never were picky on it beforehand

dr_doggensmirk said:
not to also get too personal, but yeah, same. i use my art to explore and recontextualize my own trauma. people will sooner call me a pedophile for liking cub art than they will the people who took advantage of me when they were adults and i was a kid. its bullshit.

im sorry hon :( i understand the feeling. just remember that even if you were/are any sort of real paraphile, you're not bad or dangerous just for existing the way you are, coz i'm sure you didn't ask to become that way. either way you put it, it's still responsible, ethical, and non-harmful to explore such subjects thru fiction rather than more harmful reality-based means that would hurt a non-consenting party. this applies to feral and gore and noncon and stuff just as much as lolisho/cub. looking at it that way tends to help me handle that sorta stigma, i hope its helpful and not too weird to you.

drakewilde1234 said:
Dagasi has infinitely more avenues to share their art than this site, the only benefit that e621 had over inkbunny was that human/anthro art could be posted, now that isn't true, so..., just keep posting what can be posted on inkbunny (until cub gets banned and dagasi gets personally blacklisted or something lol)

Their stuff is also on Gelbooru under "dagashi_(daga2626)", but I'm not sure if *all* of it is there as Gelbooru isn't exactly the biggest reservoir of furry content, cub or otherwise.

zenace said:
They're also chosen based on how more bad the other choices were. Biden VP Harris and Florida gov Ron are example. Ron promoted so many anti gay bills while Harris was an ex-cop or ex-prosecutor.

Oh let me be clear, every single politician in the US is evil and deserving of the worst life can throw at them. I just happen to point my ire squarely at the two geriatrics poised to ruin whats left of the US because they're the most notable right now.

ayylmao0906 said:
im sorry hon :( i understand the feeling. just remember that even if you were/are any sort of real paraphile, you're not bad or dangerous just for existing the way you are, coz i'm sure you didn't ask to become that way. either way you put it, it's still responsible, ethical, and non-harmful to explore such subjects thru fiction rather than more harmful reality-based means that would hurt a non-consenting party. this applies to feral and gore and noncon and stuff just as much as lolisho/cub. looking at it that way tends to help me handle that sorta stigma, i hope its helpful and not too weird to you.

you are absolutely wonderful and a delight in this thread. thank you so much for the reassuring words! ive long come to terms with understanding that my intrusive thoughts and more obscure sexual desires dont correlate to hurting others/harmful actions, but i hope anyone else in this thread stumbling upon this is reassured by your words as well!

Was there actually a law change that happened? Or are they simply anticipating a law change?

list22 said:
I highly Doubt Project 2025 will ever be implanted tbqh. I think it's just fear mongering.

It *probably* won't be implemented in full, federally, but it's safe to say that it'll function as a roadmap for red states and the supreme court. We're already seeing dozens of red states trying to ban HRT for everyone and deem trans people obscene by nature (and therefore trans people in public are equal to pedophiles flashing children), things will only get worse from there.

mklxiv said:
Oh, fuck off. e621 was one of the last safe havens for all kinds of fictional content and now that you're banning things too I'm pretty certain I'm done posting any of my art here. This deletion shows me you aren't afraid to cater to puritans and nothing else is off the table for being banned as well.

If you're gonna make lame excuses of "legal changes" then please specify what has changed, as to my knowledge that's been nothing, especially considering that the content that's being banned is legal in the United States where e621 is hosted and operated from (especially considering this is what the United States federal government explicitly told the United Nations Human Rights Counsel in 2019, check page 5). Changes in the "political environment" are 100% irrelevant as peoples' personal opinions don't effect the law.

Literally this. A bullshit change out of nowhere with no actual justification. How can artists/enjoyers of any other fringe/controversial tag not find this incredibly concerning? Feral and cub should be looking for a new home asap if this is the sort of shit we can expect here.

edgelord said:
Was there actually a law change that happened? Or are they simply anticipating a law change?

no law change. its bullshit they were spewing so they didnt have to admit it was pressure from unnamed and nebulous ""business partners""

edgelord said:
Was there actually a law change that happened? Or are they simply anticipating a law change?

No. No law or anything changed. Admin is simply covering his ass...for now. No warning, no nothing. Unfortunate.

alphamule

Privileged

cadynn said:
Surely not the beginning of the end... right?

LOL, ratcheting noises ensue. But seriously yeah, it feels like the pattern starts with X, then Y, then Z, then everything else.
Well this is why I was getting nervous that so much was concentrated on e621. Also why there should be torrents.

dracotheblack said:
Literally this. A bullshit change out of nowhere with no actual justification. How can artists/enjoyers of any other fringe/controversial tag not find this incredibly concerning? Feral and cub should be looking for a new home asap if this is the sort of shit we can expect here.

ATFbooru, pixiv, inkbunny, baraag, fchan, just to name a few.

Bet you 30$ there'll never be a huge law change and this was all for nothing.

kyiiel said:
Unrelated to the thread, but they also go after people who sell firearms, and people who sell weed too.

Banking has been traditionally especially hostile to the marijuana industry because there has been no decriminalization at the federal level, and banking industry regulations don't have a lot of wiggle room in terms of permitting transactions from people or businesses knowingly involved in felony activities.

That's not quite the same situation here, because as many people have pointed out, cartoons (that aren't extremely realistic, at least) are by definition not CSAM under the law. But that doesn't mean your credit card processor can't drop you like it's hot.

dr_doggensmirk said:
no law change. its bullshit they were spewing so they didnt have to admit it was pressure from unnamed and nebulous ""business partners""

Well that would suck if true.

brayinggirl said:
I don't have any inside knowledge about what happened here, but I can make a pretty good guess. I DO have a close friend in the credit card processing industry, working for one of the big credit card companies whose name you know. They can and WILL revoke a business's access to the payment portal for handling material that can even be broadly construed as CSAM, whether or not it meets any particular legal threshold or even whether the content is fictional.

Same story for some other elements of the banking and finance industry.

Sure, this might be a fight with the webhost. But I think it's more likely the financial industry's bully pulpit at play here. You may or may not like it, or agree with their demands, or think their influence is insanely outsized. But none of that matters, because if you DO get blacklisted by the payment processors, that's the ballgame.

So far, they've really not seemed to care about anything other than CSAM, at least as far as visual arts go. Everyone's ferals and cubs are for better or worse, safe. In other media, there have been occasional forays into punishing producers of NC and NC-adjacent material (some nontraditional payment processors have been increasingly suspicious of hypnosis content creators), but I think any direct attacks on that from the financial industry writ large are far on the horizon, if they happen at all.

I wonder if the payment processor Parallel Economy would accept dragonfruit or not... https://www.paralleleconomy.com/about/

why would the admistrators decide to now ban/erase all the porn pics of human child characters instead of ages ago if the site was not receiving some outside pressure to do so?

Oh wow this came out of nowhere. I understand the humans aspect of course (Have humans blisted, come here for the furries) and am surprised that wasn't already blocked off the site but humanoid has always seemed incredibly vague to me.

There is entire species of creatures and monsters ect that are labelled as humanoids such as many pokemon, that could look young and be forever removed. Even if you look at the humanoid wiki it lists say Goblins as being one, and all goblins are essentially "young" looking when drawn. But then you have elves, which are basically humans but not called humans.

This coming as a shock even to the head admin means this was done suddenly with no warning even being able to be given? That's kinda intense. Losing a ton of artwork always sucks. what on Earth is going on. If it hits even our cute images one day... :(

furfnsfw said:
Are you running a script to scrape every single upload using the e621 API in realtime? Are you going to host a website to be a proper archive to prevent lost artwork?

People have been doing that for a long time, there probably isn't a single thing that has become lost media and was uploaded to e6 any time past 2015. Sure, there hasn't been too much community effort in any of these (except I guess Hydrus if you want to count that), but don't act like it's all doom and gloom.

Fascism and fascists are becoming really fucking scary repulsive things. Society still doesn't have the intelligence to not confuse roleplay with reality. How absolutely insane some people are is really seriously truly concerning honestly, especially considering the fact that society now has technology and fascism obviously only increase real life abuse. There are reasons why too much restriction including transparency is bad, there needs to be a healthy empathic balance.

casmin7~ said:
If it hits even our cute images one day... :(

It reminds me of the situation on Fchan back in 2004... when they were getting "fresh new mods" with very specific agendas....

And then the forum post on the FA forums back in 2006, when the head guy who ran the website was like "I don't wanna ban cub"

But then several years later not only does he ban cub, but years after that he bans all Short Pokemon, lol lol lol....

Hmm. So kind of a mix of Furaffinity and Inkbunny rules. Anything is fine AS LONG AS IT'S AN ADULT. Young is fine AS LONG AS ALL PARTIES THAT ARE YOUNG ARE STRICTLY FURRY, ANTHROPOMORPHIC CHARACTERS?

croythehorse said:
Same here

I'm with croy here, if they take away my girl I'm gonna riot, I don't know where or what, but I'm gonna riot

dr_doggensmirk said:
you are absolutely wonderful and a delight in this thread. thank you so much for the reassuring words! ive long come to terms with understanding that my intrusive thoughts and more obscure sexual desires dont correlate to hurting others/harmful actions, but i hope anyone else in this thread stumbling upon this is reassured by your words as well!

im glad youd find it kind :> youve seemed very cool and nice in the thread as well fjddbd

Genjar

Former Staff

omnimind said:
I imagine this has been brought up before, but there's 11 pages to this thread and I gotta be somewhere in an hour, but is it too much to hope for that the deleted works might still exist in an archive somewhere, which could be dumped somewhere else?

They exist, of course. Various AI companies have scraped e621 in the past.
Though those are unlikely to be publicly dumped.

eranormus said:
reminder, you have exactly this comment to your name in contriputions to this site, several people in either side of the war here have several tagging changes, posts and forum and post comments to their name, they have some level of clout and estabelished prescence in the site, the mods and admistrators would likely be hestiant to punish them too harsly, you do not have the same possible defence

It's weird how many of the comments supporting this move are from relatively (or completely) blank accounts. There aren't a lot of said comments individually (which is nice to see), but of them it seems like a good percentage are from new and/or minimally-involved users.

list22 said:
Bet you 30$ there'll never be a huge law change and this was all for nothing.

If there ever is, I hope it goes to the Supreme Court, and I hope the Supreme Court (in all their recent incompetency) can somehow manage to remember the purpose of the First Amendment. At any rate, this isn't directly about the law, it's about how e6/Bad Dragon's "business partners" feel, possibly about the law.

moximoore said:
Hmm. So kind of a mix of Furaffinity and Inkbunny rules. Anything is fine AS LONG AS IT'S AN ADULT. Young is fine AS LONG AS ALL PARTIES ARE STRICTLY FURRY, ANTHROPOMORPHIC CHARACTERS?

I'm not, like, terribly upset by this rule change since this is primarily a furry porn site. But I wish I knew where I could find some of the art I like that are gone now. As far as I know there are very few if any art hosting sites that let that kind of stuff be shown any more.

genjar said:
They exist, of course. Various AI companies have scraped e621 in the past.
Though those are unlikely to be publicly dumped.

could you image if someone publishes an e621 dataset like they did with danbooru and it has all the deleted stuff in it lmfao

guestit7433 said:
Society still doesn't have the intelligence to not confuse roleplay with reality.

We have an epidemic of something called "Oneirataxia."

"The inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality."

...

That and the Tumblr and Twitter users are forcing all of THEIR personal moral views onto OUR furry fandom....

""REEEEE, THAT'S PROBLEMATIC, HOW DARE YOU DRAW THAT!!!!""

...

The middle 2000s era of the Furry Fandom was PEAK... Nobody gave a purple rat's ass if you drew Buster Bunny pr0nz...
Or Tails x Sonic Yiff.... NOBODY CARED... People back then ALSO didn't tell each other to "kys" over friggin' FURRY ART....

veruke_assault said:
We have an epidemic of something called "Oneirataxia."

"The inability to distinguish between fantasy and reality."

...

That and the Tumblr and Twitter users are forcing all of THEIR personal moral views onto OUR furry fandom....

""REEEEE, THAT'S PROBLEMATIC, HOW DARE YOU DRAW THAT!!!!""

...

Remember that Twitter is FULL of Tumblr refugees.